Hello everyone

I've just joined the Champdogs forum, following in the footsteps of my late sister, Michelle Kirman, who used to post on here under the name Jazzywoo.  Chelle sadly died in 2007, so some of you may not remember her, but to those who do, "Hi!".

If Chelle was still here I'd be asking her this question, but as she's not, I thought I'd put it to you guys and girls in the hope you can help me and my partner out, so here goes....

It's a long time since I've had any experience of looking after a Dog, in fact Chelle's Dog was probably the last bit of Dog minding I did.  Before that it would have been the adorable mutt we had when we were both kids - so it's going back a bit.  Now my partner and I want to get a Dog or Dogs of our own and give them a really good and loving home, but...

we both work, and at least one week in every six we're out of the house for up to seven hours a day.  Not ideal, but without the pennies there would be no Dog/s anyway.

Question is, are we being realistic about this?

We thought it might work if we get two Dogs as puppies and bring them up together so they have each other for company, or would that just mean double trouble?  Would it be better to consider certain breeds that may tolerate an extended period without our company?  As I say, it's normally one week in every six where we have an issue, at other times one of us is normally around, so apart from an hour or two they would have our time and attention.

Someone suggested Greyhounds, which seems a bit odd to me???  Also, we don't have a huge house, but small breeds like Terriers are high energy aren't they?.

We can provide a loving and caring home, but we want to do the right thing and we'd like options, if there are any. 

Hope this slightly jumbled post from a bit of a novice makes an ounce of sense.

Thank you

Pat (and Dave)

Hi Patrick how nice to have you on the forum I remember Jazzywoo.
I would look at pricing a local dog sitter for the weeks you have to work. as it is only a one week in 6 you will problably find it is not too expencive and would be better for any dog of whatever breed. My dog sitter charges about £9 per day for doggie day care 8am till 5pm or will come to the house for a couple of hours and take the girls for a walk for £6 per day. It's far better than leaving a dog for 7 hours alone. Dogs are social creatures and hate to be left for that long. It would be unfair of you to expect it really.
As you say 2 pups together is not a good idea. Most pups will bond with one another and not you and training is much harder with 2. You need to get one pup and make sure you have trained all the basics like toileting and a good recall etc.. before introducing another. 2 years is a good gap between pups.
Start to make some short lists of the breeds you like and meet as many of them as you can. A dog show is a great place to meet and greet all kinds of breeds, talk to the owners and get thier angle on the character of the breed in question.
Good lukc
Aileen

Hi and welcome

I would agree with Merlot on doggy day care. There are some wonderful doggy people out there who would take excellent care of your dog & who would undoubtedly be a good option for when you want to go on holiday etc. No worries about your poor baby being home alone for long periods of time.

Good luck with your search.

Thank you - both.  Definitely food for thought.

I've had so many people telling me so many things about so many breeds that my head is bursting with it all.  Some of it sounds reasonable, some of it sounds silly (to me) and some of it completely contradicts what others have said.

Hello Patrick
I had only recently joined the forum when we lost JazzyWoo but do remember her so well. I would echo that it is best not to have two pups together (even if there wasn't going to be the long day). I also think that the way forward would to be arrange so doggy daycare for that particular day.

> some of it completely contradicts what others have said.

As I often say one mans meat is another mans poison.

There are breeds some consider the ideal pet I could never live with, and I am sure my breed would be the same for others.

Before considering looks start with a shortlist of must haves and must not.

For example I can live with the dog hair, but I couldn't live with slobber.  I like affectionate dogs, but not Velcro ones. 

Oh and Greyhounds are not a strange choice.  The ex racers are used to kennelling so generally are used to being left without constant human company (though they would be kennelled with company), they are generally quiet, short coated so easy to keep clean, and contrary to belief do not require huge amounts of exercise, they re sprinters, quick burst of energy, then pretty sedentary.

Hi Patrick  and lovely to see you posting here. I am not sure if you remember me , Lucy,  as myself and my husband came to Michelle's funeral as I became very good friends with Michelle and think about her often.

At Lab rescue we often get two dogs coming in together and if the dogs have a good relationship we try and see if we can get home together for them. So perhaps that is an option you could perhaps look at ?

I would suggest getting two puppies is not a good idea as it can be very hard work as they do tend to bond very closely together and training can be extremely difficult.

Hi Lucy

I certainly do remember you both coming to Chelle's funeral.  I remember thinking how you must have had a very early start, having travelled some distance to make it, but we really did appreciate it very much.  I know that you'd become good friends.    

It's going to be a few months before we actually take things further and get a Dog, but I thought I'd come on champdogs to ask for opinions/advice as Chelle always spoke very highly of this forum.

Appreciate the responses so far.

If your considering a puppy then expect it to take several months to find a good breeder, get on their waiting list, await the pups births and then get a puppy home.

It is rare to find the right breeder with a puppy available straight away.

As we are in the middle of the show season a  visit to one of the larger championship shows that isn't too far to travel for you would be a good idea. 

Unfortunately the different groups of breeds are on different days, but if you make a shortlist of breeds you may only need to attend on one or two days. consider the more unusual less well known breeds as they are often not so often puppy farmed/commercially bred so easier to find a good breeder whose reputation you can check out, though harder to find a puppy.

I'd definitely agree with Lucy that 2 mature rescue dogs would be the way to go. As long as you use a rescue that fosters it's dogs in homes and assesses them fully then you'll be able to get 2 dogs that are house trained, don't chew and don't suffer separation anxiety - much better than a puppy unless you do have your heart set on one. The benefits of this would be that the foster home will have tried leaving the dogs and be able to report how they are. If they're adult and have a good walk right before you leave them there's no reason why they wouldn't be fine for 7 hours, just like sleeping overnight :-)

A couple of years ago I fostered/adopted an elderly lurcher, she was the easiest dog I've ever had and if it wasn't for wanting a particular breed (of which there are none in rescue) I would always rescue now.

> Someone suggested Greyhounds

Greyhounds are actually the perfect couch potatoes. If you rescued a couple of mature greyhounds, walked them for half an hour before you go to work you'd probably have to shake them awake when you came home 7 hours later :-)

There are several really good greyhound rescue charities that foster the dogs in home environments, so you get a complete breakdown of their nature/habits/activity levels etc.

Sorry but I still do not think any dog should be left for 7 hours. Mine will settle after a walk and sleep most of the day away but they do like to know I am around. Overnight is very different and is a natural sleeping time.
I would never ever recomend anyone to go out and leave a dog for more than 4 hours without someone calling in the toilet break and to check all is well.
Aileen

> Sorry but I still do not think any dog should be left for 7 hours.

Each to their own, thousands of dogs are perfectly happy while their owners are at work. I would agree that you can't leave a baby puppy that long, because of house training and feeding, and it's not fair to leave one dog alone that long. This could be a wonderful home for 2 rescue dogs.

I agree do not get two puppies.  I also think that an older puppy or an adult dog might be better suited to your current situation.  I too wouldn't advocate leaving even an adult dog for more than 4 hours on a regular basis but puppies certainly not even that long for many months.  I'm at home all day so I'm able to work with their timings and I don't leave puppies for any longer than they can sleep without needing a pee...

With regards to breed you certainly can't equate the size of the dog to the amount of exercise required.  Many small and medium breeds have high exercise requirements and low tolerance to boredom.  Some breeds don't have much 'down time' and like to be busy others are very happy to snooze for a long time once their needs have been met.  In addition to their breed traits some of this depends on your training, and your daily routines.  For instance I always do my main walk of the day in the morning, so once we're back home my dogs konk out for the afternoon, knowing that it's safe to sleep as they aren't going to miss anything!! 

Perhaps you could let us know what your breed preferences are, and those with experience of those breeds could give you some more specific advice?  

Hi patrick I did not know your sister but have heard others mention her she was obviously very missed :) Just wanted to say welcome. Merlot I am not sure chamsong meant to have greyhounds because they could be left for so long more and example of how the can be couch potatoes and contary to what people believe do not need hours of excerise. I would want to leave my dogs for longer than 4 hours emergencies aside and think the dog walker day care option is the best way forward. I use that option and it suits us perfectly with very happy dogs

i am another one  who would not get two pups together, people do but generally its very hard work and advised against you may not get the best out of your dogs and as first time dog owners enjoy them one at a gap inbetween.

Please, take it from me as someone with a dog just coming out of that puppy stage, do NOT get two at once!! LOL

Greyhounds are couch potatoes, they are happy to have a walk and chill out for the rest of the day and can curl up very small...or lounge flat out on your sofa! They are a lovely breed but do have a selective deafness if they see something chaseable and are not know for a 100% recell in the event of a chase.
If you only have a small home you could look at some ot the utilty breeds, not got the same work ethick of some of the working breeds and usually content with a more sedate way of life (Although there are exceptions). My friend owns 3 dalmatians who are full of life and race about the park for an hour then go home and sleep all day. Another aquaintance has a Tibetan spaniel who is a joy to meet and although he loves his walks he is happy to take life as it comes and is a settled house dog. The gundogs have a wide variety of breeds with the Glolden Retriever being a good all round family dog who will walk as far as you want but also revells in family time at home. Flatcoats too are adaptable.
You need to make a list of what you like
Pure bred or rescue.
Long or short coat
size range
How much excercise you are willing to give
Food bills
etc.. then maybe we can use our collective heads and find the right dog for you.
Aileen

I agree with Chaumsaung about certain lurchers/greyhounds being fine to leave for up to 7 hours, it would only be one week in six after all. My lurcher is a total lazybones, I don't leave him for 7 hours because it just happens that I'm at home pretty much all the time but he'd do 7 hours if I needed him to 1 week in 6 with no problems.
After his walk he takes himself off to a sofa or beanbag and I don't see him again until I actually go and lever him out of his sleeping spot. He is 4 now though and has only settled into being a laid back dog since the age of 3, he needed a lot of attention before then and would have been dead upset if I'd gone out for more than 4 hours (and wrecked my house).
My other dogs on would be totally unhappy about me going out every day for a week for 7 hours at a time though (two terrier crosses and a sheltie) so I guess it just depends on the breed and the dogs nature.
I think a pair of older sighthounds would do nicely in Patrick's routine, of course if you want a dog that you can re-call reliably they are perhaps not the right match and a different breed with a dog walker would be better :)

I would second the advice to take on rescues who are used to being kennelled and having minimal human interaction, rather than a puppy.

It is not a case of one being easier than the other, both will be hard work, both will create problems - but its DIFFERENT hard work, different problems.

I think the idea of getting a pair of greyhounds is a good one BUT - make sure you get a pair who know each other well and get on well - NOT a pair who have just been slung together by the rescue (or trainer) and actually don't know one another well at all.
You can get greys from rescues, and you can get them direct from a trainer - in both cases 'buyer beware' applies, some rescues are excellent, some are not. Some trainers would find the best pair for you, some would offload their rogues - go in with your eyes wide open and be fully prepared to walk away if something is not right.

Greyhounds in particular (please do NOT make the mistake of thinking that lurchers are tall and pointy, therefore they will behave and think like greyhounds, they most categorically will NOT) are really  pretty amazing to live with - they are naturally very quiet, clean dogs, and once they get to know you they are silly clowns, delightfully dim in most cases (not stupid you understand, just 'differently intelligent!') and very affectionate, again, once they get to know you.

It's lovely to see you on here and many of us do remember your sister and miss her posts on CD.
As others have said don't get two pups at the same time.  I work full time, but I do have three dogs who keep each other company.  When I pop in some days they always get up from their sleep and look at me in disgust wondering what I'm doing home so early.  My evenings and weekends are totally dedicated to my dogs (well except for when I come on here and FB LOL).

Thank you for all of the replies.  We are going to give it some careful thought and I will keep you posted on our Doggy adventure.  We'll probably look at taking days off/holidays to coincide with the 'tricky weeks' (to be honest, it's my most hated shift at work anyway, so it will suit me).  When it's not possible for us to take the time off we'll probably see about making arrangements for someone to come in for half an hour so Doggy can have a pee break.

Once upon a time, we used to be able to take Dogs to work with us (I work alone), but a colleague got a bit of a nip and ended up with a few teeth indentations during a shift changeover, so it was knocked on the head.  Such a shame.  

Hi there and welcome to the forum. Firstly let me extend my condolences on the loss of your sister, I am also a new poster here so didn't get to know her unfortunately.

I am also a greyhound owner! and I work! Our set up is a bit different in that my partner and I work different hours so the dogs would not be alone for 7 hours but I regularly take a day off work to enjoy their company, go for a lot of big walks, have a great fun day with them.... and they run it by wanting to sleep all day. They are the TRUE couch potatoes of the dog world, happy with two brief walks a day though happy to do more also, delighted with a quick sprint and then coming back to their sofa or their bed (yes, they like comfort lol). I couldn't be without one....or three as is the case. I would 1000000000% recommend adopting an oldie - even 5 upwards is considered old for a breed who is considered a veteran in racing at 4 :-/ Greyhounds are affectionate, lovable, quiet, not remotely high energy, perfect for a small home or apartment, low maintenance, short coated, fairly healthy breed..... really the only question you have to ask is why NOT a greyhound! Go visit some rescue centres (I would recommend these over dogs coming straight from trainers for a new owner) and even foster a grey for a couple of weeks to see what you think of them in reality. That way you're helping a dog, and getting to see if they suit you. :) if you have any questions, just shout! Good luck!

Patrick,

What are you looking for in a dog? Do you want to do lots of activities with your dog or are you looking for a pet who'll go with you on walks and then snuggle down with you in the evening? If you want a family dog that is biddable and easier to train then look at some of the gundog breeds- like the golden retriever, the flat coat or even the Cavalier King Charles- which just wants to please you. This is not to say that you won't have to do lots of training while they are pups and teenagers- you will, but generally these breeds are considered more manageable provided they come from good stock.

As already discussed greyhounds are manageable as are whippets but as with all sighthounds recall and chasing small furries can be an issue. Terriers are big, active, demanding dogs in small bodies but some like the Border and Norwich and Norfolk are generally a bit easier. I would also add that whilst there are breed traits and characteristics there will always be exceptions to the rule, and at the end of the day dogs are individuals as well as the product of their genes and upbringing.

Some dogs shed a lot, some slobber, some dogs are known to be more prone to barking (watch dog traits), the list goes on. I would decide first what you think you want out of a dog and then try to narrow the field of options. If you go on the Kennel Club website they have a breed finder that searches after you have entered various options.

Good luck and let us know what you plump for.

> If you go on the Kennel Club website they have a breed finder that searches after you have entered various options.
>
>

I must say I have used many different versions of these and never remotely come up with my preferred breeds, often coming up with ones I wouldn't' give house room.

Many breeds other than hounds chase and are bad with small furries (a lot of terriers!) & many greyhounds are perfectly good with small animals and may find themselves in a rescue situation because they have NO interest in chasing. Recall can be taught and while I wouldn't trust other people to let my hounds off lead they are off lead with me daily and no problems. There are quite simply SO many greyhounds in rescue throughout the UK that finding one to suit anyone's needs, whether they be someone who wants a quiet cuddler or a dog to do agility with et al, is more than possible. :)

> I must say I have used many different versions of these and never remotely come up with my preferred breeds, often coming up with ones I wouldn't' give house room.

I tried the KC breed-finder, even after selecting my preffered dog size as 'large' it came up with many toy-breeds as recomendations, with the Mastiff not being on the list.

yes I too find the kc breed finder rubbish. not looking myself for a dog atm but must say inka you are very pursasive regarding retired greyhounds. It would be lovely to know you are giving an oldie a forever home I dont like the stories about them being disgarded because they are no longer needed :(

>I tried the KC breed-finder, even after selecting my preffered dog size as 'large' it came up with many toy-breeds as recomendations,

Me too. No matter how many times I put in wanting a large dog with a smooth coat that needs plenty of exercise, it kept suggesting longcoat chihuahua!

Oh dear, that was not a good bit of advice then. Given the general view perhaps we should all feed back to the KC (unless most of you have already) and poor Patrick will have to do his research elsewhere.

I managed to get the Purina breed selector to suggest what I was aiming for, so that might be worth trying. :-)

> Oh dear, that was not a good bit of advice then. Given the general view perhaps we should all feed back to the KC (unless most of you have already)

Seems it's been malfunctioning for a while, then - there was a thread on here last year or even earlier bemoaning its uselessness.

Jean thanks for your tip re the Purina selector. It's the ONLY one I have ever tried that has actually shown up my breed of choice!

Although... I'd query the "2 hrs and over" daily exercise requirement. When I ticked the box for "up to 2 hrs" I had a few smaller breeds that don't appeal... I would guess that many people using it assume the +/- 2hrs to mean physical exercise, when in fact training and mental exercise is just as important in many breeds, and tires them out much sooner.

With some breeds, giving them 2+ hrs of physical exercise per day means you end up with a cream-crackered owner and a very fit dog that just demands more and more - not to mention that so much activity is very unwise for puppies and young dogs who are still growing & developing.

I had to cheat (looked in the breed library) to get my breed, it was the up to 1 hour exercise category (acceptable) where i would have thought they'd be categorised as over an hour, and some consider them large and others medium, then the grooming came under more than once a week (correct) but many descriptions say heavy grooming requirements.

Mine's quite determined I should have Japanese chins! :-D

Wow, the purina one only suggested greyhounds for me! :)

> thanks for your tip re the Purina selector

Ditto, although rather oddly every breed disappeared off the list when I added "multiple pets"!!

I found only Spaniels stayed on when I added multiple pets, beagle only came back when I said sole pet - surprising as my beagle loves company, I can understand not having them with small fluffies but other pets generally she is fine with

On my answers it came up with nil options which is slightly worrying :-D

Me too LJS, I must be a terrible owner, however my 4 don't look too bad in my opinion :)

Yes same here no complaints from my girls either ! Lol

but a colleague got a bit of a nip and ended up with a few teeth indentations during a shift changeover, so it was knocked on the head.  Such a shame. 

Oh dear! Can understand the new ruling, but a bit unfair as all dogs have different traits and characters, you never know you may be able to change that in the future as it would be ideal. :-)

No extra advice to give, but so nice to have you here, Jazzywoo was lovely and is missed by many, so very nice to have her brother here. {{hug}}

It is great that you are thinking everything through first before getting a dog, always makes the best of owners. Good luck with your search. :-)

Mine did too.. Had to ammend and it came back with mastiff type breeds and a Leonberger.. When I added in over 2hrs of exercise and heavy moulting I got both my breeds..lol

**** UPDATE ****  Well, we've made a decision and we're going to see about taking on a retired Greyhound as our first dog.  We've done lots of reading and research (and taken account of Inka's great pitch for them) and it seems a Greyhound might be the dog for us.  After a few years we might broaden our horizons and see about introducing a puppy from another breed, depending on how the Greyhound settles in.

There are so many Greyhounds looking for a loving home and we can definitely provide that and we've also got some arrangements in place if we need to leave the dog alone for an extended period (even though he/she will probably spend most of it asleep). 

Will post again with further update.

Patrick

Lovely news and will be good to hear an update once you get the new arrival .

Fantastic news, how exciting, lucky you and lucky dog in waiting whoever it turns out to be!

Oh YAY I am so delighted!!! Please keep us updated on your new family member, I just KNOW you will all adore each other :) :)