Is a stud dog proven when he has mated for the first time or when he has produced a litter of puppies?.
I saw an advert advertising a dog for stud for free as it would be his first time, but the next day they were charging for him as he was
a proven stud but obviously he had only just mated for the first time. He is 8mths old.Why dont people just enjoy their dogs as puppies before trying to make money out of them?!!

Proven for any male animal means having successfully mated a female, and that female has given birth to his young. Meaning, he is fertile and can do the job, and can get females pregnant with resulting young.

Proven for a female is more complicated. Meaning, fertile and mates successfully, but can also carry a pregnancy to term and give birth to live young.

In some animals like rabbits - who can be very poor mothers - 'proven' would also imply the dam has not only given birth to viable young but also cared for them and reared them successfully by herself.

I would say the earliest you can say a dog is proven is when a bitch is confirmed in whelp.

Though, what a disgrace this post is about - he is a puppy and should not being used as a stud dog.  Does the breed require any health tests etc?  Sounds as though he has been bought as a money making machine - popular stud dogs can generate a great deal of money.

I hope this pup and breeder are not members of Champdogs!

I thought it would be when a bitch was confirmed in whelp also. I just cannot believe that overnight it went from not mated to proven stud.
Can i say what breed it is?

The majority of dogs should not be used until after the results of their hip scoring had come in so in practise not before 13 - 14 months.

Purely out of interest, is there a minimum age for a stud dog to be, before the KC would register his offspring?

> I just cannot believe that overnight it went from not mated to proven stud

I don't agree with 8 months at all, any health testing can't be confirmed by this age and he's still only a babe!

However a bitch could of whelped a litter of pups over night meaning the dog is now proven and maybe it was an old advert saying he hadn't been used and they've now updated it to say he's proven?

As i said i don't agree just seeing logic in an advert changing from unproven to proven

Using a pup at 8 months old isn't unusual in my breed, they are used the once so they know what to do, allow the owner to assist if needs be, then rested till after their first birthday.

There is no lower or upper age limit for studs set down by the KC

I wouldn't consider a dog proven until the puppies were born live and healthy. And 8 months is FAR too young to be fathering pups, poor baby. :-(

"And 8 months is FAR too young to be fathering pups, poor baby"

I doubt he complained!

It is too young from a responsible breeders view point though, although I suppose in some breeds it might be an acceptable age to prove a dog.

> poor baby

I wouldn't say poor baby, i'm sure the little guy had a great time & very much enjoyed him self ;) lol

But just not good for the breed if he had a health issue which can't be confirmed till after a year

>It is too young from a responsible breeders view point though,

Yes it is.  I have a breed that is sexually mature at 6 months, and I have certainly heard of litters sired by youngsters.  But you have to take into account if it is worth risking the loss of a potential good stud dog.  Most males still have maturing to do mentally, and it would only need a dominant bitch to turn, and she could totally put the dog off for life.

People assume that all males will copulate willy nilly (pun intended) but it isn't so.  I knew of one owner who was always telling her boy off for humping his teddy.  When he was old enough for her to want to use him, he wouldn't perform!

I do like my boys to be confident little chappies in other ways prior to proving them.  And yes I agree that proven means the bitch is pregnant.  I wouldn't call a dog proven just because he had actually achieved a tie.  And at 6 months, you can't be sure that a male is going to be suitable as a sire (well not in my breed), as there is so much more improving to do coatwise. 

My breed doesn't need age specific testing, PRA cord1 status is known at birth or shortly afterwards, the pup isn't over used just given the one session till he is older.

I too have heard of dogs being told off for humping and then being unable to perform when older.

I meant poor baby to have such an irresponsible owner.

I dont know if i should say but the dog is a toy breed. I don't know the owners, just saw the advert but i did think the dog was too young.
Obviously younger again if it was an older advert that was updated!