Caution is needed due to confirmed cases of outbreaks of parvo virus in the Irish Republic in rescues and those loosely connected with dogs arriving in the UK via rescues.  There were in recent weeks/months notification by vets in the areas of S Wales and Dorset, Sussex warning of outbreaks in these arreas, three areas where individuals/rescues are known to bring dogs into the UK from the Irish Republic.  To add to this they do not all say they bring in dogs from Ireland, when in fact they do. 

Rescues will say the dogs/puppies bought in are vaccinated this is often just with a parvo vaccine but as vaccine can be purchased over the counter in the Irish Republic and can be administered by a lay person who is not veterinary qualified there is no guarantee that the vaccine has been stored correctly or administered to a healthy dog or has taken due to a puppies receiving antibodies from its mother. 

If you considering a rescue dog please ensure that the dog/puppy is vaccinated by asking to see the vaccine card and ensure it has the veterinary practice stamp on the card and adequate time has lapsed to ensure the vaccine has taken.  One dog in the IR has died not only of parvo but of lepto also it is obvious the individual in Ireland posing as 'rescue' did not ensure the dogs in their care were vaccinated. It is worrying knowing that there is movement within the areas of Ireland where parvo is rife of vehicles and individuals who have not taken adequate preventive measures.  Even more so when transporters/collectors of dogs and puppies arrive in the same locations to collect dogs and puppies to return with them to the UK. Often these dogs spend 5 days in Irish pounds, bought in by dogs wardens straight from the street, the dogs then are  transported to the UK, sometimes a UK transporter has been known to collect direct from a pound then  to the UK. Some dogs go from pound to rescue and are then collected by Uk collectors but often in a very tight time span.  

The dogs may often look healthy but some maybe carriers of parvo ect. Likewise the transporters can bring the disease into the UK on the wheels of vehicles and clothing as it doubtful that scrutiny is high and the necessity to change clothing and scrutiness to high hygene standards are adhered to by all involved.

As I have always said I am not against the principle of dogs being saved from Irish pounds and bought to the UK. What I do not agree with is the large numbers arriving, the lack of common sense in an eagerness to take all, disregarding even basic rules regarding the transportation and concern for animal welfare. Particulary as now and in the past when all dogs and puppies in the UK are placed at risk by a some thoughtless individuals knowingly collecting dogs and puppies from areas where parvo is rife and spreading.  

I see no need to scaremonger and possibly lose rescue dogs homes with this post? Parvo has been confirmed in the UK too, there was a recent post about it.

You cannot buy the parvo vaccine over the counter in Ireland. There are some very dodgy people posing as rescues in Ireland however, and some very dodgy people acting in England also, if recent information I was privy to was accurate - e.g. a so-called rescue 'requiring' 20-30 dogs on a regular basis to send to the UK - no more information required or requested by either party regarding breed, temperament, age, suitability of future homes, home checking et al. I would be highly concerned about the homes these dogs get sent to, if indeed they are homed, as concerns about dog baiting etc are rife. :(

Of course, wonderful rescues exist too on both sides.

In the Irish Republic you can purchase vaccine  over the counter you do not need to see a vet.

It may just be co-incidence that dogs from the areas where parvo is rife in the Irish Republic have come to the UK and in these same areas in the UK where dogs are rehomed from rescues parvo has been reported by vets to be of a concern and are advising people to have their dogs vaccinated.  I am not scaremongering I am saying that there is concern and people should be aware and make enquiries regarding vaccination of the dog/puppy they are considering to give a home to.  That is common sense and good advice?

I do agree with the comment their are dodgy people posing as rescues in the Irish Republic and the UK and you are correct in saying that regular journey every few weeks are made by a number rescues taking on a regular basis dogs 30 or more at any one time, without the usual safeguards you would expect from rescues regarding welfare.  Operating like this makes them into dog collectors and dealers in dogs.

That's just not true.... I live in  Ireland. Perhaps if you know someone, and live in a tiny village... but even then you'd be lucky. It's also a very large leap to infer that the practice of the majority of Irish rescues is to vaccinate their dogs themselves, I have rescue dogs and work for a rescue as well as having close links with others and it simply isn't the case.

You are correct about the 'dog dealers' you mention in the UK and Ireland who seem to glide by with only a few people concerned at their actions and the general public thinking they are gods. Madness.

> they do not all say they bring in dogs from Ireland, when in fact they do.

Our breed has just had a widespread alert for a dog in a Sussex rescue with breeders checking on dogs they have bred, and it turns out the dog was brought in from an Irish pound, but that wasn't made known.

Another rescue well known for bringing in Irish dogs seem to be getting our breed from what they term breeders, but are puppy farmers.  Sad as our KC registration are at an all time low of under 50 in two out of the last three years, yet the carelessly/commercially bred ones are popping up with monotonous regularity.

I had this from irish travellers!! went to buy a puppy and left with all 10! I just couldn't leave then couped up in the horse stable, all mixed breeds and ranging from 6 weeks to 12 weeks. I made the choice to get them away from there and re-home them myself once they were all looking and feeling better. However within a day, one was put down with suspected parvo, one diagnosed with kennel cough and all treated! However they were so young and frail they didnt stand a chance, i lost 6! all had to be hospitalised on drips,medications etc then put down :( I was left with lots of bills all for trying to help! 4 survived!

> they do not all say they bring in dogs from Ireland, when in fact they do.

Similar story to yours, Brainless. My oldie rescue girl was spotted on a website where it was said she was an unclaimed stray, and was at a large dogs' home in Cheshire. Cue all breeders trying to work out who she might have been bred by, in a minority breed where the annual registrations are fewer than, if not barely more, than yours.

I decided to take her on, and she was 'sprung from jail' by a breeder living near the home - so all her paperwork is in that person's name - and brought down to me.

Her records show that she had been recently microchipped but it looked to all intents and purposes that it was done by the dogs' home. However a few weeks later the kind person who got her out received documents to transfer the chip into her name, with Irish paperwork!

The chip was new, but must have been done in Ireland and indeed I have been told its number is not on the UK chip database.... further research by myself reveals the first few digits of the chip number are a kind of 'country of origin' prefix code, and hers tallies with Ireland.

If it hadn't been for this unusual twist, we'd never have known she came from Ireland.

Inka, maybe I have not explained myself too well in what I wrote I was not making reference to all rescues in Irish Republic, it would have been better if I had written 'rescues'.
As you know, some are less reputable and are more akin to dealing in dogs and collectors of dogs to be later sold than rescue in the true sense of the word.

Regarding vaccine I should have written can be purchased over the counter in the Irish Repubic with a prescription provided by a vet but regarding anyone can vaccine (they do not have to be veterinary trained) that is correct. Sorry for any misunderstanding caused.

No problem Pat but again just to let you know if I asked my vet for a prescription for vaccine, she wouldn't give it to me. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it's common. Perhaps if you are a nurse etc exceptions would be made but I don't know anyone, individually or in rescue, who vaccinates their own dogs.

Brainless, it would be extremly rare to see one of your breed in the pound/rescue here.

Brainless would you like to come and meet Archie at Allsorts Dog Rescue as i think thats who you are talking about. He did come from the pound, he did his 5 days and was not claimed.

Gail who runs the Allsorts is very happy for Norwegian Elkhound Rescue to help Allsorts find Archie a home.  please tell them to ring her again they have her number as they spoke to Gail the other day

As I understand it there is someone already interested in having him. 

Sadly there are quite a few of my breed bred by Irish puppy farmers/BYB's and so do end up in rescue as that kind of  breeder doesn't make provision, sadly many of them end up coming though our UK breed rescue when they come to the UK, often bougth and sold via commercial retail kennels in the North of England, or eventually bred by those who have bought from them.

i just spoke to her 10mins ago gail told me to put that post on for her

Hi Pat,

I have seen some information sent to me by anti-vivisection folk, they are concerned about the EU law which is being introduced which will allow stray pet dogs and cats to be sold to labs for experiments. I know a certain large charity used to sell dogs to the labs in Oxford a friend got the receipts. I do wonder if we will see many of these dogs being 'trafficked' by dealers will end up being sold to the labs and also will we see an increase in the already high volume of dog thefts in the UK for these dealers to sell to the labs?

Have you had time to look this tome of legislation over yet? It is a huge document....

Hi Polly, I am aware of this but I have not read the document.

> I do wonder if we will see many of these dogs being 'trafficked' by dealers will end up being sold to the labs and also will we see an increase in the already high volume of dog thefts in the UK for these dealers to sell to the labs?

I find the whole idea of it very scary indeed...

I have in mind a situation I am following on another site, where a lady whose dog was stolen (and reported so) has just found out it was rehomed to someone via a large animal charity six years ago. This is despite it being microchipped - the chip company AND the rescue failed abysmally. She has found out the dog is still alive and well, but is being denied a chance to see it again and the chip company & rescue are trying to distance themselves from any blame.

Bodes well for any mandatory chipping legislation doesn't it? :(
How awful if a stolen dog slipped past the chip scan and ended up being used for experiments.

I too am following the above story with interest and wondering of the outcome for Eileen who owned the little yorkie that went missing all those years ago. In fact her reason (due to unforseen circumstances for starting her own rescue) but she has never given up the hope of finding her dog or at least as now knowing of its whereabouts. Very sad story to read Eileens account.

It's a heart-wrenching story, isn't it?
And it could happen to anyone, really - if a stolen dog isn't recovered quickly enough. I am hoping Eileen will make it more public, I think it could help a lot of dogs in the future if she does.... but it will never bring her Sophie home, and that has to be the worst on top of worst. I do hope she can turn this around to make the chip companies act more responsibly in such cases.

Do you think Eileen would mind if this was put up as a separate topic on here, as it might reach more CD readers? [and come up in searches].

I do not think she would mind at all and it may cover a wide audience as you suggested. 

Hi
I have found this thread very interesting and for different reasons.
I have two dogs who I bought as puppies.   One of my dogs is 5 and the other two and a half.  
I recently decided to rescue a golden retriever bitch from a national and well known rescue.   They told me that she had been found as a stray in Ireland, brought to the UK by another rescue organisation who had spayed her and passed her on.   She had been at this rescue for 2 days before I reserved her and they had no other information on her. 
Checks went through, dog meeting, etc and I collected her on the Wednesday.   It was a baking hot day and she coughed all the way home.   I called the rescue immediately and they said it might be stress but if necessary, to bring her in the following day to see the vet.  
As suspected, she had a bad dose of Kennel Cough and they kept her there whilst treating her because my younger dog, who has problems with her bronciolli is permanently on steriods which lowers her immune system.
Both my dogs have now become very ill and are almost finished their first course of antibiotics but will probably have to have another course.
I was told that the GR had had a vet check but how could they have missed the signs as the dog was already coughing before she entered my home?   The rescue say that they wouldnt have let a dog go with Kennel Cough BUT I think that they were careless and as a result, I have put my own two dogs at risk.
The GR is now on her 2nd course of anitibiotics at the rescue and spent one night in my house and an additional two weeks there!   Hopefully Ill be fetching her home on Friday.
I have visited her regularly.   She is a gorgeous dog, intelligent, beautiful coat, lovely nature.   I have never had a rescue dog and was surprised at how she understood commands ie sit, up, down, etc   The rescue said that she hadnt been chipped and yet I can see from this dog that someone once loved her.   It makes me very sad to think that there might be someone out there who still looks for her.   I cant imagine a worse scenario than not knowing where your dog is.
Michelleb

There's bad everywhere. I took in a dog at short notice one evening when asked by a rescue as they had nowhere for her to go and she was elderly. It was to be for 2 days max and they told me they had nothing to treat her for fleas or worms with so obviously that meant I'd have to take her and then treat my entire home. Of course we kept her located in two rooms and not the full house but if you're anything like me, you'd have to do the whole house anyway or spend your life itching.
Anyway, the poor pet was in bits and they wanted to ship her to the UK, unspayed and with only her first vax's. I disagreed with sending an elderly, flea and wormridden, UN SPAYED (!!), un-vax'd dog, away like that to some unnamed rescue (!). She also had kennel cough. My vet wrote a letter forbidding her to travel and eventually after much trouble between the 'rescue' and myself, I ended up taking over her care fully myself (ie legally, not just in practice as i was the one caring for her in practice). I then rehomed her myself with the back up assistance of a reputable rescue and she lives in a wonderful home now and I get to keep in touch and see how she is. I dread to think what could have happened if she had been sent to the UK in that state, I wouldn't have let it happen but others may have not known better and done so. It was a stressful time and I ended up footing all her bills (spay, vax, KC treatment, worms, fleas etc) myself which had not been the original agreement as I had taken her at the behest of a rescue but it's worth it to see her safely homed. The rescue in question mean very well and do some good work but it has to be about QUALITY not QUANTITY to work out fairlyand safely for ALL the dogs in anyone's care. Too many people have set up Facebook pages calling themselves a rescue and doing no more than that and taking dogs left, right and centre. I've seen some getting requests for 60 dogs, small and medium, for the UK and being happy to send them off knowing no more than that. Terrifying.

In some cases it seems to be more like 'Second Hand dog Dealing' than rescue.

Exactly. Anyone can call themselves a rescue on facebook and post photos of tragic cases. In fact, 'before' photos of one of my dogs were actually stolen before and I later found them used on a French website where they had raised 1,000 euro with a fake story. :(

Brainless, I agree with your comment, what else can it be? Whilst I am aware there are some exceedingly good rescues involved with taking dogs and puppies from the Irish Republic and finding suitable homes for them in the UK there are others both in the Irish Republic and in the UK that are just taking advantage of an unfortunate situation, working together in a cartel of sorts. Where individuals and rescues collect dogs from pounds after their 5 days, it appears easy to do so in the Irish Republic for a small fee and a dog licence, the dogs are then taken into a 'rescue' or to individuals acting together with the host 'rescue' whilst waiting to be collected by individuals, calling themselves 'rescue' in the UK.  The dogs travel to the UK without paperwork, history unknown in most cases, unless the person at the pound was around when a dog was handed in (such as a sheep chaser or a dog no longer wanted rather than a stray picked form th street) some dogs, puppies receive a vaccine but this is not a regular pratice by all the individuals or rescues involved.  Then on arrival of the UK 'rescues' with their vans the dogs, puppies too are packed into loose crates (although one does have a Defra approved vehicle with fixed cages but even the use of this is abused by overloading, such as 3 dogs to a crate meant for 1). They then face what is for some up to a 12 hour journey before the dogs are unloaded, which included 4 hours on a ferry.
They arrive at the 'rescue' or go into fosters homes, some are spayed, neutered within 24 hours of arrival and and vac then travel onwards to a fosterer.  Others go into foster and the neutering becomes the responsibilty of the eventual new adopter, some operate with kennels others rent kennel space. The charge for a dog is anything between £175 and £200. 
Some operate as non profit businesses operating as a limited company, another a charity (but as yet no accounts submitted as new) and another is they say none profit business but they are not registered with anyone.
There is a lack of information given by any on their web sites or Facebook as to where they source their dogs   some give the impression they are local hand ins or from their local pound in their own areas when  in fact they have travelled to the Irish Republic to collect the dogs themselves.
There are rules and regulations over the commercial transportation of dogs but it does not appear that all involved are aware, even care or adhere to legislation, even worse is the fact that the authorities do not appear to care either therefore it is just a free for all - that is until there is a deadly outbreak of disease or rabies is bought into the Irish Republic or the UK, then the Defra will sit up and take notice.
In recent weeks warnings by vets of parvo in the areas of concern in the UK, both parvo and lepto in Ireland amongst those loosely connected to those bringing dogs to the UK. There have been Council, Trading Standards and vets notifying people in areas where puppies have been imported illegally from Eastern Europe to be aware too. I am not trying to scaremonger but I think this casual attitude to the commercial movement of puppies/dogs without any checks being made throughout their movement from the Irish Republic to the UK (both for puppies sold in pet shops and dogs and puppies through rescue) is a grave mistake. One for the unknown risk of disease for these unprotected puppies and dogs and the rich picking it makes for the dogs collectors in the name of 'rescue' who should all be doing so with the legal documentation in place, the puppies and dogs vaccinated and travellling in the correct vehicles and crates. I think this free for all to take as many dogs and puppies as possible disregarding their welfare status prior to, enroute or before a permanant home is found is not acceptable and puts all at risk.
One poor dog caught upm in this fiasco of 'rescue' was taken from the pound in IR, a blind GSD, he was transported with other dogs from IR to Dorset a 12 hour journey and went into foster, the 'rescue' then asked for a volunteer to take the dog from Dorset to Suffolk to a permanant home with 48hrs the rescue was asking for a volunteer to bring the dog back to Dorset as it had not worked out. The dog is now back with the original fosterer in Dorset.  Is this not too much for a blind dog to endure in the name of rescue? Should a home have been sought in the IR for this blind dog (no effort was made) rather than all this long trauma of travelling with unknown people and dogs and unfamilier surroundings and noises, I think this was unkind and not thought through at all by any involved. This is so typical of the lack of forthought within this madness of save all at all costs, common sense is not a consideration at all.          

Apart from anything how can it b justifiable to import rescues from other countries when we have plenty of our own.

Until there is a shortage of rescue dogs here then if people want to help homeless dogs in other countries then they should do so by offering help on the ground with looking after and homing the dogs in their home country and educating the public to reduce the problem.

Where will we be getting van loads of dogs from next, Spain Portugal, eastern Europe.  With just a three week wait after Rabies jab this is entirely possible.

These of course may have all manner of diseases we do not have here and the only treatment they are required to have before coming is worming for tape worm.

Totally agree, Brainless.  I have never understood this.  I feel it is at best misguided and at worst dog dealing, plain and simple.

Just so you know, those of us involved in REPUTABLE rescue work in Ireland also hate this practice and see it as very, very worrying indeed for the poor dogs involved.

Inka, I think what is so worrying (by rescues/individuals who are not as reputable as I would like) that no effort what so ever is made to try to rehome the dogs/puppies in Ireland. It is straight out of the pound and booked for the UK.  They even say that we in the UK are crying out for the Irish dogs because all we have in our rescues are staffies and staffie crosses and to bring in the Irish dogs gives people a better choice of rescue dogs.  The dogs are nice, really nice with that I will agree but why can they not at least try to rehome in Ireland first, even for a week or two rather than make the assumption based on incorrect facts that we are desperate to take these dogs and puppies.

It would make more sense if they ensured the dogs and puppies were fully vaccinated, checked by a vet before comming here and then when  they are here ensure they are spayed and neutered by the rescues and individuals collecting them from Ireland before rehomming which is not happening in all cases. Ensuring too that they are transported correctly and the transporters have the correct paperwork but they do not all have this. There is too much emphasis put on numbers and taking as many as they can without ensuring they are doing so correctly and in the dogs best interest. They do ot all even have fostereers sorted before the dogs arrive in the UK they advertise on Facebook for a fosterer, who checks the fosterer  are they even checked for suitability be fore taking a dog?

You're preaching to the converted here Pat, I agree 100000000% :(

Hi
How very sad that is. Perhaps education is the answer? 
I have just taken on my first rescue dog who was brought over from Ireland.   She is a beautiful 3/4 year old Golden Retriever.   She was brought over to the UK by some rescue or other and then given over to Dogs Trust to rehome.   She arrived there on 14th May and I reserved her on the 16th.   Whilst they were doing the checks, I visited her daily to give her a feeling of continuity.   Unfortunately a week later when I took her home, she started coughing (I have two other dogs) and when I took her to see their vet the following day, they decided to keep her there to treat.   I continued to visit her there daily.
I noticed that although they are an excellent no kill rescue, some of the finer points in the way they treat the animals could be improved.   Evidently they didnt check her well enough and subsequently both my dogs have been very ill.  She was on her own for two weeks in a place where she had no view and wasnt taken out.   There were other dogs with Kennel Cough there and some had company.   I took blanket for her with the smell of our home and our dogs and they washed it!   I replaced the blanket, they washed it!  
They look at the health, housing and food but seem to forget that animals need companionship too.   Fifteen minutes a day would make so much difference to them.
Michelleb