Hi!
I have a English Bull Terrier, shes just turned 2 and at the moment on her 3rd season. We got her from a couple in birmingham.
They told me and my partner that my pups mum wasn't kc reg but dad was. We never received that info from them.

We have been tossing and turning as to should we breed our EBT. I've been brought up with all different breeds and I can honestly say she is the best behaved ( she still had her moments ) She is great with my 15 month old son. She is everything you want in a dog. I just hate when I go walking with her the looks you get from people. Don't judge a dog before you see how they behave not the look of it.
Anyway I've gone off tract.
We would like to breed her but 1 we would be very picky to who actually gets a pup, we would visit their homes before ( in Scotland ) and would ask if any of them didn't want the pup after a certain amount of time to return pup instead of putting into a rescue home. We would love to breed her to pass on to other people what a joy she is and always great companion and it would show in her pups.. My EBT kyra is not kc reg but can I kc reg her pups??? And would a stud owner let their stud breed with a non kc reg bitch???

I would like to direct you to this thread :-
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/89071.html
Reading this will give you alot of answers.
Kind regards
Lea.

>My EBT kyra is not kc reg but can I kc reg her pups???

No. Both parents need to be KC registered to enable to pups to be registered.

>And would a stud owner let their stud breed with a non kc reg bitch???

It's highly unlikely that any reputable dog owner would allow their dog to mate an unregistered bitch.

The best advice is to carry on enjoying her as a much-loved family pet, and in due course have her spayed. :-)

hi there meesh ......firstly hello to a bullie lover !!!! I have to say please think really long and hard about breeding even if she was Kc reg ....sure you would get some stud dog owner who would let you use their dog but thats not all .....ANY bitch or dog used for breeding should have all the relevant health tests in bull terriers that is heart kidney and patella then when the pups are born they cant be left alone with mum so for the first 2/3 weeks you must be with them 24/7 !!!!! then the pups at 5/6 weeks old then have to have their BAER test done at specialist centres . You only have to look at the on line selling sites to see these pups all the time . Its lovely to have such a lovely temperament in your girl but rearing bull terrier pups is not easy and i wouldnt do it without serious thought ...As said before you couldnt KC reg any puppies ...And although that doesnt stop some people breeding their pet please please dont as there are  health issues involved in certain lines of Bull Terriers that without a pedigree you wont know .I love the breed I have 2 and we have had them for over 25 years now .....enjoy her and by the sound of it you have made her a good ambassador for our breed .

We have been tossing and turning as to should we breed our EBT.

Ohh please dont take this the wrong way,, but i am speaking from my own experience here,, i have 2 EBT'S Myself,, i dont want to put you off but you really do need to rethink breeding her honestly,,

here goes,, much like yourself i have had other breeds rotties mostly but we got out first ETB 6 yrs ago female all KC reg top pegirgee parents where champs and all that,,,,

(this means nothing unless your really going to show your dog which was my general idea to start with)
anyway this never came about for a multitude of reasons and we did end up breeding our bitch at 2 1/2 years old she had been health tested as had her chosen mate who was a well to do dog at cruft in 2004,, we paid our stud fee up front and thought we would get some fabulous show quality pups to sell to (like you say to well vetted homes)

heres where the trouble started,,, the day she went into welp  i actually came on here crying for advice as my bitch was in a bit of a state and had to be rushed in for an emergency c section,, which left us with one very ill and confused mum one dead puppy and one puppy we had to hand rear as mum wanted to kill him as soon as she see him,, plus £756.79p less money in the bank for the cost of the c section,,, your regular insurance wont cover breeding is another point to remember!

believe me when i say you may think you know your bully girl but until them hormones kick in you really know nothing at all ,,,

our bitch used to allow our 6 month old kitten to suckle on her for comfort before she ever got pregnant she was the sweetest thing and so loving,,

till she had her own that is,,,

and when it was time to sell the one pup we had we really had spent so much time rearing him that i only put few ads up and got no response at all,, so we ended up keeping himm

i love him to bits dont get me wrong ,, would i do it again,,,, NEVER IN A MILLION YEAR!!!, Leve the breeding to those who know these things it really it not worth the time money and the poor health and stress of your bitch believe,,,,

Now dont all beat me up here over it as was 4 years ago, im only being honest,, i have lived and learned ,, i would never go down that road again and would never adive anyone else to either ,,,

Thanks for all the advice I knew bout all their tests they need to have. We have the money, time and patience. We do worry bout who the pups will go to and also if anything happened to our wee girl during her being pregnant or while giving birth. We wouldn't be doing it for the money it would be 100% be for other EBT lovers to have a bit of what we have.
It's funny when we first got kyra family and friends said why you getting that breed?? Everytime we told them the nature of the breed they would say no way, don't think so. Now they see how she is and love her as much as we do.
I agree about there is 2 many unwanted dogs out there ( we have a rescue dog as well ) and we always visit our nearest rescue centre as we are a dog family and love having them run around the garden.
We would keep one of the pups and we have a family member who would have one if we did breed her. So even if it was one to two pups to sell than that would be easier than trying to sell four.
It's a very hard decision. The kc reg isn't so we get a better price I just had it in my mind that could it be possible to kc reg pups even though kyra isn't.

Thanks again you have put lot more decisions into my head to think very serious about :) x

chelzeagirl, that was a very honest post, and had I been the OP I would have just made one mighty big decision in NOT EVER breeding my girl, not even considering it.

We would keep one of the pups and we have a family member who would have one if we did breed her. So even if it was one to two pups to sell than that would be easier than trying to sell four.

I don't know how many pups the breed generally has, but I'd guess as they are fairly big up to 8 wouldn't be uncommon -so you could have 6 pups to sell. And you will not get the right type of buyer for unregistered pups, in many ways they would be pretty worthless as people do not want them. It's not easy selling ANY breed when you DO take care to let them go only to the best possible homes, so you would also need to consider the fact you may end up having to keep several. In my last litter (from top quality show winning dogs, registered pups, dad an import, grandmother a Crufts Best of Breed winner and Champion etc) I ended up having to keep 3 pups myself and the stud dog owner took 2 free of charge. And believe me, it's no fun having more than one pup to train. Of these 3, two have now fallen out as they are the same age and same sex (very common problem) so have to be kept apart at all times, cannot even be walked together.

A quick look at the KC website to see what pups are available for sale at the moment of the breed has found two litters with 9 pups born and one of 10, so I certainly would not count on just 4.

Have no doubt that being the breed she is you would have no trouble placing them in homes that required a "hard man image" but I doubt that is what you want, so the vetting of prospective homes would have to be very through if you are not to experience disaster in the years to come.

Sorry I am all for encouraging first time breeders but you would have a real uphill struggle, put your beloved bitch through all that risk to produce pups you are likely to find it very hard to find good homes for. People who have researched the breed are not going to want one who's background can't be researched they will want a KC registered puppy. And those who have not researched into the breed are not suitable people to sell your puppies to.

> it would be 100% be for other EBT lovers to have a bit of what we have.
>

That kind of potential puppy owner would not be looking at having a puppy from an unregistered litter.  There are plenty of well bred KC registered litters for them to choose from.

For a start you can't confirm any background health tests even if both parents are hip scored etc, you need more than that, ideally genera ions of relatives with health screening.

An unregistered litter will more often attract either uninformed or less discriminating/caring people, often looking for something on the cheap with a throw away attitude when it comes to finding keeping  dog expensive, suddenly not wanting them when they realise the costs of vets or boarding kennels.

"An unregistered litter will more often attract either uninformed or less discriminating/caring people, often looking for something on the cheap"

Sadly, I don't think KC registration is quite as important to a lot of people seeking a pet dog these days... probably thanks to PDE.
The number of litters advertised on the internet (I am talking my breed here, I must admit) that are NOT KC reg, with those responsible for bringing them into the world charging top prices, certainly implies this...

That said, I wouldn't sell a puppy to anyone who wasn't bothered if they were KC reg or not, as to me, it is essential.. along with health testing and sound pedigrees.

Can only echo what has already been said.

Glad to hear that you are going to consider the advice that has been offered.  The health issues should be the predominant point at the forefront of your decision :)

Bull Terriers & Bull Terrier (Minis) are by far my 2nd fave breeds :)

We made the decision last night after everything everyone has written. We are not going to breed her. For her sake and sake of pups. We would hate for something bad to happen to her and we wouldn't forgive ourselves. It also makes me sick to the bone if anyone abused any of her pups.

I would just like to thank everyone for helping us :)

There are absolutely no health benefits to a bitch in having a litter, so I think you've made a very sensible decision. :-)

Good to see somebody who has looked at opinions and taken their dog as the first consideration over their own .

Well done and enjoy her and if you are looking at getting another pup then enjoy the experience and you won't go far wrong in searching the breeders on here ;-)

a very sensible decision .....your girl is lucky to have owners like you !!!!!!

Yeah that's what we decided. Once kyra finished season. Find her a friend as our old dog isn't up for playing with her no more. He's happier with his morning n afternoon walk then sleeping, than running about garden in between walks.

Thanks again every1 :)

Away to watch Dont Blame The Dog BBC 3

Great decision, definitely the right one for you and your girl I would say. Well done! :-)

Well how very refreshing, so often we give honest advice and opinions only to be criticized for doing as we have been asked.

Think you have made the right choice and it is such a relief to hear of a responsible owner who listens, considers and makes an informed decision, well done.

Hope you have years of joy with your bitch and that one day you will have a really nice KC registered bitch (or dog) who you are able to breed from should the general situation make that sensible.

All the very best.

Sorry just re-read and it sounds patronising that is not what I intended as I feel you have acted for the best for the family and your bitch.

No it doesnt sound like that at all.
We both must of had the right decision in our head but just needed someone to say " don't do it, leave her be"
Shes a poor wee sole on her season at moment so that made us say, no lets just get her done once this season is finished. Over last two days she's just been sleeping. Normally she's out running about the garden in between walks.
Am glad I asked :)

> no lets just get her done once this season is finished.

Just to say, in case you didnt know, that you will have to wait for 3 months until you get her spayed. It is much better for the bitch to be spayed mid-way between seasons.

I am all for encouraging first time breeders (this is only my second litter) and I have only just started.  My main worry would be homes for the pups:

Most responsible people will do a lot of research into their chosen breed and want to be able to look back through the dogs family tree to see how healthy they are, temprements etc. they will often end up going to the breed clubs for advice and be pointed to KC registered breeders.

Other responsible people will go to the breed club rescue or to a rehoming centre.  That leaves people who are possibly after a discount or aren't too worried where the pup comes from (health and temprement wise) are these the people you would like to have one of your babies?

You are unlikely to find a mentor to help you through the process. 

If you are still keen to breed I suggest you contact the breed club, visit some shows, meet some breeders and their dogs buy a KC bitch puppy (explaining you want it for breeding etc.) from a good breeder who would be prepared to mentor you through the whole process.  I wish you every luck and I hope the advice you've recevied here helps you.

Yeah I know about how long to wait after she's finished her season.

We can't really talk as we got her from someone that hadn't kc reg the mother it was just the father ( well that's what they said) that was kc reg. We got her as we both love the breed.

At the time when we phoned about her. We didn't think about kc reg as we were so excited about getting her. Now reading everything we should of. But same token we wouldn't have her if we did!

But after the stories from everyone I really don't want to put my wee girl through any of that. I couldn't forgive myself if anything bad happened to her.

Thanks again

Some people can't register the pups as KC reg as they have bred too many litters from the bitch. One reason I like to buy a KC reg puppy, as well as all the health test results you get with this, is the knowledge that the bitch hasn't been over bred. Down in the New Forest near me that is an awful West Highland Terrier racket, poor bitches bred over and over, the same phone number is in the local paper constantly with litters. They say to callers that the bitch isn't registered but the Dad is. I wish there was a way of preventing this. Maybe when each dog must be microchipped it will be possible to reduce over breeding of bitches.

Yes, I agree, although it was only recently that the KC reduced the number of litters you could register from 6 to 4!  I have seen top show people take 6 litters from one bitch (Breeds Record Supplement), so it is not just your typical backyard breeders who abuse their bitches. Personally, I think 4 is still too many, unless those litters have been unusually small for the breed.

> I think 4 is still too many, unless those litters have been unusually small for the breed.

In a roughly 6 year breeding life 4 litters (the limit our breed clubs have had for 20 years or more) seems perfectly reasonable without overbreeding a bitch, if the bitch has something to offer the breed, after all bitches get to have a much smaller impact on a breed than stud dogs where there are no limits (and personally I feel there should be guidelines as the FCI has so that males are not overused).

For me there can never be a good reason for not being able to register a purebred litter, if the pups can't be registered they should never have been bred.

I have had a third litter from a bitch just once and did feel a bit guilty but had not kept anything from first 2 which I felt good enough for show and breeding. Got my come uppence as she then had just 4 boys only! Anyway I still have Harvey now the only boy I have ever kept.
My breed have average 8 to 10. Although I am sure mine are healthy enough to go through it a couple more times ( cannot believe 6 ), I never quite get over the guilt that I am putting them through quite a risky procedure at the end of the day if things do not go to plan.

Due to timing and keeping two bitches from the same dam, I am now likely to have a fourth litter from one of the two half sisters (conceived abroad to bring in new blood), having already kept a puppy from the other linebred one. 

Her first litter only had two bitches and they were not the quality I wanted to keep (she seems to have better males, and came from a litter with better males, she was kept only for the bloodline and her sex).

Her second litter arrived at the same time as her half sisters foreign sired one (so we were not sure if we would succeed), where we were lucky and there was a good choice of girls so I kept one of those.

As she is a twice outcrossed bitch I am still trying to find the best pairing to give me something to go on with. 

We have a small gene pool (and recently dangerously low registrations) and I have mated her to an import so her offspring will be very outcrossed, which may be useful for using with more linebred stock, but with a 15 month youngster it is too soon for me to keep another unless she has something outstanding in bitches.

Next Autumn I hope to mate her to an older male (to finally get a one to keep) sired by a dog I bred which would take me back to my earlier breeding.  I am placing a male from this litter which might be useful to me down the line, and a back up if she has no good bitches next time, (the fourth litter planned for at just under 7 years of age).

So even when a puppy is not kept from a litter I breed each with the hope of the offspring, or their offspring  being of use to my own or the breeds gene pool.

From all the litters I have bred in 20 years the litter average works out at just under 6, most often 4 - 7 puppies though I have had one litter each of 3, 8, and 9.