Well, what did you make of last nights program?

Personally, I thought it was all rather surreal. And why was that mastiff cross still alive after having bitten several people ...

I only half watched, the prong collars were horrible and there was no dog training, just shouting and force.

The shots of the dogs being dragged up walls and lowered down again in HORRIBLY unsuitable harnesses (in one shot appeared to be constructed from a couple of dog leads!) made me feel ill - you could see the harnesses cutting into th edogs putting huge pressure on the muscles that fix their shoulders to their bodies and I don't care how long these dogs have been bred for that job, that DOESNT mean ill fitting gear is not uncomfortable and damaging.

Well said. Never any need to cause pain to a living creature.

I did not like last nights program....I know the war dogs have a job to do but I was not happy with the way they were handled. They were used like pieces of equipment, and lived constantly in spike collars. There are limits. The absailing was harsh, why could they not carry them in some sort of sling rather than just pull them off the top and dangle them in a harness..?? It was testament to the temperament of the dogs though they took it all without murmur, a bit like zombies. Switch on switch off.....
As for the people..well they are the ones that get "deleated" off my puppy lists !!
Aileen

Again I generally liked it and was very impressed with the character of the dogs, but I am very glad OUR army does NOT use prong collars! And all their equipment seemed tatty and about to fall to bits.

I too wondered why on earth the dog that had bitten several times had not been reported to the police under the DDA and at the very least been ordered to be muzzled. There did seem to be a big change in her though.

I think the biggest failure of this episode was the fact that ALL that was said over and over was that you had to be firm with dogs -there was hardly any mention at all about the simple fact it's no good giving a dog firm commands if it hasn't first been taught what the commands actually mean. If somebody shouts at me in Japanese I might very well WANT to do as told, but I won't know what I am supposed to do as I don't understand the language!

I really was ITCHING to put the big chap in a prong collar and then shout foriegn words at him and yank him in the neck until he guessed or lucked out and found out what it was I wanted from him.

I can sort of appreciate the need to teach people to be assertive but that DOESN'T mean you have to shout every command and the dogs looked horribly like they had no idea what any of the commands meant, but were just freezing whenever they were yelled at.

I can hardly think that if you are sneaking up on terrorists, having to yell KNOCK IT OFF at your dog every two minutes wouldn't be a bit of a giveaway!

I found it very telling that the two (other) professional handlers (mainly in the background) were very calm and VERY quiet. They proved that you do not need to bellow at a dog to get it to do what you want it to do. If anything it is more likely to 'listen' if you whisper a command. It was clear that the novice handlers were not actually watching how the professionals did things in the main. It took a while for them to grasp the fact (and not sure they did 100%) that the trick was 'tone' and not 'volume'.

The water test had me holding my breath but I was reassured to see the professional handler had not actually left the lad totally to his own devices. During the whole procedure, the professional handler had his hands on the dog and was 'tickling' it gently to reassure it. I think the lad was very brave to even attempt to do that. He must have been afraid (I would have been!) and yet he still gave it a go. Credit to him :)

I couldn't cope with watching the whole programme. The main thing that struck me was ... who the hell are these idiotic breeders letting idiots like these 'Brits' have one of their dogs in the first place :-o  :-o  They weren't fit to own a dog, clueless!

I thought it was awful and could not see who it was aimed at, my worry would be Jo Public would try to copy.
Whoever is responsible for animal related programmes at the BBC seems to have lost the plot or has no knowledge of current training methods.
Why the need to go abroad there are enough good trainers over here, and if they are looking for ones who are tough I have met a few who have scared the S*** out of me, but they are great with dogs who all adore them.
Somebody with a bit of clout needs to have a word with the BBC.

my worry would be Jo Public would try to copy

Yes, that's a concern especially re prong collars. Sadly there are plenty in UK, and some pop onto this forum, who advocate their use.

Somebody with a bit of clout needs to have a word with the BBC.

LOL, since when did THAT work!!!! Who was it that showed PDE1 and 2, who refused to broadcast Crufts etc?!

I don't think the series is bad at all, my husband and I both said last night we hope it comes out on DVD as we want to have it to
watch again.

I for one thought that the narrative part did emphasise the fact that some of the man's thoughts and feelings about training were out of date. Especially the part where it said that they were banned in the UK.

Pinch and prong collars aren't banned here... Unfortunately.

I think it did say, though that they're banned.. even if it's untrue I do think it was a deterrent that would stop people viewing them as suitable

I think this particular program had very little to do with dogs and training or even pinch collars. It was very much focused on getting the owners to 'man up' and stop treating their dogs the way they were. It worked. Result!

I thought none of the programmes have really been about training but especially numbers 1 and 3, the kids did no training they just learned(?) how to handle the dogs that had already been trained.
Programme 2 did have a wee bit of training in, I really liked the moment when the woman showed the lad how to get a sit without pressing the dogs bum, his face lit up and he said something like 'wow this just makes sense', lovely.
I actually really enjoyed the war dogs one, although I did wince when they went off the abseil. Thought the lady with the mastiff could have done with giving her house a little bit of a tidy before letting the cameras in :)

I think, reading this thread, a lot of people watching don't know breeds like Malinois. They ENJOY people being rough with them (either the person they trust, or anyone if they trust everyone -and these dogs clearly did), rough is in their nature, it's how they play, they love wresting, my stepson (who is huge and strong) even picks ours up in his arms and carries them around just like I would a toydog. If you did that to say a Golden Retriever, they'd hate it. So the abseiling etc does not worry me. It's what they have been used to after all. Some dogs freak out if you try to get them to go over an agility seesaw, others think nothing of it.

I enjoyed the program to an extent but I think that a good bit of the training was done off-camera as they did say that their training techniques were 'classified'. As to equipment etc I daresay these dogs need to be trained to deal with anything - I'm sure that in combat they may well be faced with a situation where they do not have a nice comfy harness/sling to use on the dog so have to use whatever is available whether that is a couple of leads or webbing or belts etc to cobble together at the time. I'm not convinced that such training would have any effect at all on me but it did seem to work with the people they were training. In reality I suppose this is an entertainment type show rather than 'try this yourself at home' type dog training a la Barbara Woodhouse! To be honest the most useful part was when they got the dog to bite the woman - showed her what she was brushing off as trivial when it happened to her visitors!

I was very impressed with the Malinois dogs, I thought they were superb. I've always wanted to see them in their proper context, at shows they have seemed nervy and overwhelmed and I know that can't be a correct perception on my part considering their purpose. Whatever we think of the training methods etc is great to see the dogs in the context for which they were originally bred, and I can't wait to see the herding episode!

> I can't wait to see the herding episode!

Will be very interested in that myself - looks to be mostly Kelpies?

I moved to a livestock-dense rural area about 2 years ago, and at first my BSD/BC cross attracted FAR too much attention from cattle if we ever walked across fields with public footpaths (which in this area, is many).

They would literally charge, and heeding the NFU advice to let a dog off lead if cattle start to get excited, I did that. Have to say I was gobsmacked... his herding instinct came to the fore and not only did he hold them at bay, he also once did a perfect outrun and grouped them together, pushing back any that tried to break and run towards me. On a later occasion he stood up to a steer that several times tried to charge him but he wore it down, it was quite amazing to see (if a little heart-stopping).

I guess his fear of them and also protectiveness of me was the root of that - he has chilled a lot now and I can now walk among grazing cattle with him off lead in calmness (providing they let him be).... last week we walked right between some steers just a few feet away and he was picture perfect. It's taken time, but I am now very proud of him - and also wondering... Wish I could harness his natural instinct and do herding with him, he really has it in spades when it comes to cattle.