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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Older lab biting new lab puppy
- By danamega [us] Date 18.04.12 00:55 UTC
Ok so i will give a run down of my situation and hope someone out there with experience can help me!!! I have a 5 year old female lab , we put down our 14 year old lab 1 month ago! Sine=ce then my 5 year old dog has declined in her eating and has been narcotic about being at my side at all times! So thinking it was a good idea i brought a new puppy in the house 3 days ago..hes a male 7 weeks old! thinking this would help her eat again and be herself! she is the alpha female and always has been ....she has attacked the puppy twice (pinning and her fangs out) never drew blood so not sure if she bite him or not but he yelped awfully loud!!!! She ignores him, wont smell him but seems VERY curious about him! I dont know what to do to get her to be nice to him!! She doesnt mind him eating from her bowl, but touching her ball she growls....the attack came when we first brought him home within 10 min and the second time was when he ran over to her to play..she immediately pinned him but then let him go.....not sure if that was a good sign that we didnt have to pull her off him! If anyone has ANY idea on how to make this smoother I would appreciate it! She has eaten a little since his arrival but not much..i was hoping she realized it was the puppys play mode and not attacking mode!! Or that her maternal instinct would kick in !!! she is not spayed cause i eventually want to breed them!! but the future isnt looking good!!! We also have 2 cats..that the dog is fine with until they get agravated with her and hiss..then she pins them and WILL bite them...also the older dog we put down she DID play with BUT was very dominant over her..not sure if that helps either....any help would be great!!
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 18.04.12 06:28 UTC
First of all, I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your old lab. :-( The grieving period for a cherished companion is never easy, for dogs as well as people.

Your younger lab's reaction was completely to be expected - her life had been turned upside down and she was clinging to security and familiarity (you!) in case you disappeared as well. My old boy did just the same when we lost his brother and big sister in quick succession.

Your girl's reaction to the new interloper is also completely normal - she's teaching him manners but not hurting him, so she's doing very well. :-) It's another huge upheaval in her life; puppies are like having a tornado sweep through your comfortable routine and leave you gasping! Take it slowly; give her plenty of time with you away from the puppy - make sure she knows that you don't prefer the puppy to her! Given a few weeks she'll be much happier with him.

However your plan of breeding them together is probably doomed to come to nothing; by the time he's sensibly old enough to breed from (having been hipscored and eye-tested etc) she'll be too old for a litter, so I'd seriously consider getting her spayed soon. When was her last season?
- By danamega [us] Date 18.04.12 10:47 UTC
Thanks for the info! well she will be 5 may 27....she should be going into heat any day now!! So you dont think its wise to breed them together?! I really was thinking of calling the vet and putting her on something cause her behavior is so odd!! She even comes in the bathroom with me!!!!!She doesnt leave my side!! So you see this as normal???? cause im thinking if she wanted to she would have killed him when she had him pinned! The first time we had to pull her off with all our might, the second time she attacked him she let go on her own!? i know shes showing him whos boss i just dont want her to hurt him..I cry when the puppy cries!!! when i pet him she comes over and I pet them both at the same time..i kiss her then kiss him..i want to show her i love him so she should>>not sure if thats right! Im kind of controlling her with treats (those shell eat no problem) so everytime Im around these past few days shes waiting for them! But Im thinking if i do that in her mind if she messes with him she wont get those treats!! And when she walks by him and doesnt growl or goes near him i praise her for being good and then give her a treat again! Do you think this is right?! She has lost 10 pounds in a month and a half..so im thinking her nasty behavior could be cause shes hungry!! If i buy her soft food and mix it in her dry she will eat that (and spit out most of the hard) but i didnt want to get her on soft food!!! So feel free to tell me if any of this is wrong or right!!! Its stressing me and my kids  out cause we want them to get along so bad!
- By JeanSW Date 18.04.12 12:31 UTC
You are obviously very stressed.  It is coming across in your post, so be sure that your dog is picking up from you.  I leave the behaviour advice to others on CD who are great, but totally agree that your bitch needed to have pups before now if she was going to be a mum!

It is definitely not fair to get her in whelp for the first time now.  My advice would be to get her spayed about 10 - 12 weeks after this season. 
- By dogs a babe Date 18.04.12 13:25 UTC
The first time I introduced a pup to an older dog we barely had any issue at all - partly because the older dog was just so laid back about the interloper and partly because he was adept at making himself scarce :)

The 2nd time we did it - our eldest was 7 and the middle dog was 3ish - it took much longer.  In fact it wasn't until the pup was 12 weeks old that my middle dog engaged voluntarily with him.  From what I've read that isn't abnormal and something happens at around 12-14 weeks: maybe it's just time spent, or perhaps it's to do with the development stages of a puppy but suddenly you'll find things aren't as tense as they are now :)

In the meantime don't push, don't ask them to interact, and don't put either in a situation where things can get out of hand.  Give your bitch escape routes and safe places to go.  Don't lavish praise or attention on either dog when they are together but spend time with each individual dog.  Use baby gates, puppy pens, or room dividers so that they can be near to each other but not in each others way.  You won't have to keep them separated all the time but certainly when you are busy elsewhere the puppy mustn't be left with your bitch, and she will feel happier having her own 'monster-free zone'!

She may well have lost her appetite because she is due in season, but it might have been exacerbated by anxiety about the puppy.  Give her time and space to eat on her own if she prefers it and feed the pup inside a pen so she can relax knowing he can't get to her food.

Disregard thoughts of mating - presumably you didn't mean to mate these two anyway did you?  She'll be too old by the time you know if he will be suitable.  Also if you thought of mating her to another dog soon then I'd guess that's because you want to keep one?  In that case you won't have a big enough age gap between the pup you currently have, and the one you'll be keeping. 
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 18.04.12 13:43 UTC

>So you dont think its wise to breed them together?


No, definitely not. I'd have her spayed three months after she finishes this next season - she'll be too old for a first litter by the time the pup's old enough to have all the necessary health screening.

>She has lost 10 pounds in a month and a half.


She's lost a lot of weight in a short time; I'd take her to the vet for a check up; it might be that she's grieving, but she might also be ill herself.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 18.04.12 20:18 UTC Edited 18.04.12 20:22 UTC

> something happens at around 12-14 weeks: maybe it's just time spent, or perhaps it's to do with the development stages of a puppy but suddenly you'll find things aren't as tense as they are now


No I don't think it's time spent as I have a multi generational canine household and the ones that weren't keen on puppies (My Kizi no longer had Patience with pups after she reached veteran.

Great Mum but not a motherly sort in general, having been there and done that and now enjoying their carefree time, would have nothing to do with puppies until they reached that age. 

She was actually quite horrid to them, and it looked/sounded  horrendous if one crossed her path, especially the yelling, yet the Pups Mum was unconcerned so obviously it wasn't really being hurt.
- By danamega [us] Date 19.04.12 01:22 UTC
I love that you could tell how stressed i was!! haaha Sooo stressed!! I worry about my older one! Now when i brought HER to the house 4 years ago there was no problems..a little growl here or there but that it! This one seems out for blood but didnt both times she attacked! I guess im stressed for her because I was thinking a playmate would fix her, the non eating after my 14 year old lab died, the narcotic behavior of having to come on all my car rides , to coming to the bathroom with me! i thought a new fried would help her..i wanted first to breed to kep one but i know i cant..i have 4 kids also!!And Im actually now thinking of getting them both fixed so we can live peacefully..this is also stressing my 11 year old..hes a WICKED dog lover and crys over this ...he wants them to be friends so bad!! so i hear ya..we need to calm down to help my dog calm down!! Thanks everyone!
- By Nova Date 19.04.12 06:28 UTC
And Im actually now thinking of getting them both fixed so we can live peacefully

If by that you mean you are thinking of neutering both of the dogs then pleases think again because you will be back to square one with knobs on. Spay the bitch, that make sense but leave the dog intact.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 19.04.12 09:03 UTC
Plenty of adult dogs don't like puppies - no different to plenty of adult people not liking children (including me!).  Of my 8, only 2 I know for sure actually like them - of the other 6, most would be tolerant at best but one I know can't stand them.  He finds them too bouncy and crazy and irritating (much like me with kids :-P).
- By furriefriends Date 19.04.12 09:28 UTC
When I first got my pup.my 4 year old gsd was not impressed. Due to my stupidity she got too close to his dinner and boy did he react ! There were two occasions that he grabbed her her and almost through her. - panicked decided I had done the wrong thing in getting her and rang his breeder in tears. As usual she calmed me down. 4aying if he really meant it she would have been badly hurt he was just teaching her mannersm 1ell she soon learned who was boss with his occasional grumbles and a well placed paw when the inter acted. All is now well they are good friends and play happily. He still has first dibbs on toys or bones. She will always take a back seat to him but it only took a few weeks for them to be happy together. .ind - am not much better with young kids either :)
- By michelleb [gb] Date 12.05.12 15:24 UTC
When I got my girl pup, my GR boy was three.  He was my heart dog, King of the House, my baby.....!   I wanted him to have a companion, wanted him to have someone to play with, want to improve his life.
He hated her on sight!   He stayed on an armchair for weeks on end and didnt smile or play any more.   It was awful and I felt so guilty for bringing in the little interloper.   I called the breeder and she didnt want to know.....   I started looking to rehome her but she was soooo sweet and cute so we carried on.
I tried not to let him see me hugging her or patting her and always spent time with just him.  If he saw me loving her, hed walk out pof the room.  He hated it!   Once when she took something of his, did he bark at her and boy! did she yelp!   She was definitely in charge and when he didnt want to play with her, she had no mercy for him!   Even on their walks she teased him and he wouldnt walk with her!   Talk about hard times!!
It took many months to get back to tranquility.   Two years down the road, they love one another dearly and she loves us BUT she adores him.   She is bossy BUT he is NUMBER 1 and she knows it!
I swore that I would never have another puppy, never go through that again.   I have seen a pretty little GR boy puppy from a good litter that Id like BUT Im undecided about changing the status quo again and causing him the upset that he had before.   He is five now and she is two.  
Any thoughts on that?
- By dvnbiker [gb] Date 14.05.12 15:00 UTC
Think we have all been there.

I had two adults BC boys (they are only 8 months apart as one is a rescue from drowning) and decided 5 years on to bring a third into the house.  I went for a bitch and got her from a line I admire alot.  Well for the first 10 days one of my boys wouldnt even look in her direction, she came close he would grumble and if she carried on coming he would get up and walk away.  I think he just thought if he didnt look at her, she didnt exist and she would go away.  After 10 days or so he gave up and started playing with her but still set boundaries of what she was allowed to do and not allowed to do, he used a well aimed paw for that more than once.  4 years on she adores him and will give anything up to him and is desperate for him to play for her.  My other boy that played with her from the start she has zero respect for and will walk over him, beat him up, nick stuff from him and even gets him to give up a spot on the settee just so she can have it. 

Give me the older dog setting boundaries any day!
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 14.05.12 15:32 UTC
I agree, I have a girl nearly 2 years old who is a total wuss and my 7 month puppy beats her up constantly, biting her legs and ears and making her yelp. We have to constantly step in to protect the older one as she doesn't seem to know how to do it for herself. On the rare occasions when she quietly growls at the puppy, she is totally ignored! We visited a friend yesterday with 2 very bouncy males who would not leave her alone, jumping on and humping her constantly unless I held her on my lap and constantly pushed them off as they jumped up, it was very tiresome. But my oldest girl of 7 years snapped and growled every time they tried it with her and she was left in peace for the most part. I wish my 2 year old would get a bit of gumption!
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Older lab biting new lab puppy

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