Did anyone catch this rather interesting program last night? What did you think :)

I thought it was pretty horrendous. For some reason, perhaps bad editing, the stories/characters did not quite ring true for me and I wondered if the characters were actors.  Despite the 'happy outcomes' I still cannot get my head round sending people to canine boot camp to learn 'bite work' as a means to promoting responsible dog ownership. Don't quite know what the Beeb were thinking of here-other than good ratings, of course.

So for me woeful on two scores- irresponsible commissioning and badly made. I actually laughed out loud when the pair suddenly appeared in fatigues for the tracking exercise, complete with overnight, compliant personality changes. 

Haven't watched it yet but I will as I hear there were Malinois in it?

>I still cannot get my head round sending people to canine boot camp to learn 'bite work'

That's what I meant by 'interesting' :)

They has some very nice Malinois :)

Could the rationale re man/bite work be that if they learn to do it on command, it's therefore less likely to happen without the command? A bit like teaching the "speak" or "up" (jump up paws on chest) approach. Of course I appreciate that these are not in the same league as bite work, but was thinking of the general approach.

Haven't seen the programme itself though.

Nice dogs.. shame about the yanking and jerking and the guys ideas on dog training were pretty barbaric and backwards (but, sadly, completely what I expected from that sort of bloke doing that job in that place).

That said, I did like him trying to express that it doesnt matter what OTHER people think, in response to the boy stating he didnt put his dog on a lead because it would make him look 'gay', this big rough tough scary chap said he wouldnt mind walking anything, including a pomeranian on a pink lead with frills on, because what matters is that he knows who he is, not wh at other people think..

Sadly I think that message was lost on the boy who then said later on 'well I think he'd look gay'..

I reckon more must have been said off camera because the boy did invest in a collar and lead and did look visibly upset seeing the footage of his dog running in the road and running loose on a train platform and Henry telling him if his dog bites someone it will be put down got a reaction.

The girl just wanted a slap and I don't really think she needed to go to South Africa to do that.

I watched it I think they were hoping the trip would make the two of them realise what life is like and get them to grow up a bit. Yes there were some dubious methods used but they did not dwell on them and lets face it in South Africa the outlook on life is very different. Those dogs had a hard job to do and needed to be tough. I felt he loved his dogs though and they certainly seemed happy, healthy well trained and very friendly. When she chose to take forever to clean her kennels with her pretty pink nails getting full of dog poo and try to hand the job on to someone else and her dogs missed out on food and water he told her if he had been her employer she would have been sacked on the spot as she couldn't be a dog lover and no one in his employ would be allowed to let the dog suffer for thier own inadequacies (Sp)
One Rhino a day slaughtered by poachers...snared and then having the horns sawn of with a chainsaw and left to bleed to death...the sort of people who are willing to do that are not the sort you would wish to meet in the bush in the dark and you need a dog by your side who is tough.
I loved the bit where the youngster with the StaffiX said he did not use a lead so as to look more a man...and the South African told him  he could walk down the street with a peke on a pink lead with bells and frills and still be more of a man than he was!
I have family who live in Zimbabwi and have had a farm taken off them by Mugabies thugs....they have 3 grown up children who are the most polite well brought up well educated hard working kids you could meet, The father is 4th generation white Zimbabwian and he has much the same outlook on life as the bloke on the program had. Grow up take responsibility for yourself and treat others like you would like to be treated. If the program does that it will have been worth it.
I enjoyed it.
Aileen

The dogs were lovely. Not that it matters a jot, but I thought the SA owner looked very gay- he would not have looked out of place in any bar in Earls Court. Perhaps he was and that accounts for his rather perceptive comments around status dogs?!

I will watch the next instalment to see if it improves but I still think it was a poor choice for education purposes- I can just imagine a bunch of our local 'toughies' now on the search for  a Malinois- to get the look as well as trying to 'teach' their dogs bite work. Still, at least they wouldn't be able to get away with kicking a Malinois, the way they do their Staffs/x's.

I really feel that aside from the education side the programme was just poorly put together- it felt very clonky in terms of narrative and I found it really hard to engage with the characters- always the sign of a poorly made film, but so long as it works as entertainment the bosses will be more than happy.

I was watching it last night and kept wondering what the whole point of the show was - and sending the owners to Africa appeared to be just a holiday/jaunt paid for by the BBC!

Sadly I think that message was lost on the boy who then said later on 'well I think he'd look gay'..

I bet he didn't say that within the guy's hearing lol, I think he may have got his testicles to play with if he had.

I couldn't work out how the bite work stuff would teach them to be better owners, but I'm sure as with a lot of these program's, it would have been cut to hell to make interesting viewing.
I so wanted to kick that useless article of a girl, foul creature, I bet her mum was turning cartwheels when she announced she was moving out.

I think the purpose of this series will become clearer in time...
They are taking individuals who view their dogs as Fashion Accessories, Status Symbols (just so far!) and are showing them dogs which work and what they are capable of when they DO work.

Next week's is at a huge rescue centre in Australia, which I am sure will bring messages that dogs are not disposable, and shouldn't be bred on a whim.

I enjoyed the first programme - apart from the awful teenagers esp. that girl! - because I personally LOVE seeing dogs working [and the fact there were so many Malinois in it was an even bigger bonus!] :)

Just this minute finished watching it and I LOVED it. Of course the Malis had a lot to do with it. :) I thought it was very sensible of the BBC to mention that we don't like to see choke chains in the UK, training methods vary etc, so it wasn't a blanket statement endorsing old fashioned pack leader ideas. I also have to say I am re-thinking training methods because I am finding with a Malinois you NEED to be tougher with them to not get them too nervous -am not happy with how my solely clicker trained dogs turned out, there is a big difference in confidence (or lack of) between them and the ones trained more traditionally. I wouldn't go back to using a choke chain but I am back to firm commands and firmer handling such as if the dog doesn't sit when told, bum gets pushed to the ground, that kind of thing. Time will tell if it all works better but so far it looks like it.

> ut I am back to firm commands and firmer handling such as if the dog doesn't sit when told, bum gets pushed to the ground, that kind of thing.

Once again I am in agreement with you - all the more reason for a central point of collective information about BSDs!

I trained my BSD x BC pup to clicker from the minute I got him at 9 wks. A week later I taught him to give paw - but not by shaping. He didn't mind me picking up his paw, so I clicked and treated. It took no time for him to start offering the paw. The next day, I taught him the other paw and that took less than 10 mins. If he is in the right mood for learning, and I can't get through to him by usual methods, he will allow me to manipulate him and the penny drops - he does a fabulous Dead! and barely blinks, but initially I had to gently get him into position to achieve it. He didn't mind - he was unusually agreeable - but try to manipulate him at any other time and you will get a very strong No Thank You!

He loves the clicker but of course that is dependent on offering the right behaviour. Lure & Reward gets better results, and especially if the reward gets a click too.

Just did a bit of a search for the programme on YouTube, but could only find short 'teaser' clips.. however, I hope to goodness the message gets through to the owners featured in the programme (assuming I've found the correct programme that is!).

It is about a dozen or so different dog owners who are travelling the globe to be shown how to be responsible owners isn't it?

I think that had I been watching a programme that featured my own breed I too would be riveted. I can see that with your breed expertise you would take something special from the programme- adding a couple of layers of insight, if you will.

I just doubt that what I am assuming is the target audience would be able to take as much from it as you. I fear that 'bite work' could become the thing to try out- but not under expert hands, more DIY training and with breeds that are not Malinois- perhaps an American Bulldog instead!

I fear that 'bite work' could become the thing to try out- but not under expert hands,

At least it was mentioned that it was a very bad and dangerous idea that would end up with the dog being put down -and the lad got the message.

I watched this and I actually enjoyed it. I also thought that there was a good job done of pointing out that the training methods including choke chains were not necessarily recommended.

For me the point was that the programme highlighted the irresponsibility of the way the individuals were behaving and that ultimately the dogs (and the owners) were a lot better off by the end than they were at the beginning.

The interesting thing about taking them completely out of a 'normal' environment was that I think even a relatively dense (sorry) person could see the differences between the situation in South Africa vs dodgy parts of the UK - the need for specific training in that environment was pretty clear.

I did spend a lot of time cringing at the owners general behaviour but for people who might identify more closely with those attitudes (ie my daughter!), it might actually have had a positive impact.

Hi, I am Henry, the SA trainer on the "Don't blame the dog" tv series. Just thought I'll give my two cents worth regarding all the criticism on the forum about my out dated and "barbaric" training methods:
1.  My training method: The one that works for the specific dog and the outcome of the training! Even if it is out dated! I believe that a good dog trainer can't use just one form of training method, as all dogs are different and don't respond to all training methods equally. Our sniffing dogs are only trained using positive re-enforcement methods and I personally don't like clicker training for police type working dogs, but that's only my preference.  A good trainer must be able to adjust and adapt his training method to get the best out of the dog!
2.  Training pets or competition dogs are totally different to working with dogs! Especially in SA. The anti-poaching dogs are at risk 24/7, either by poachers armed with AK47's or the wildlife, like venomous snakes, lion, leopard, etc.... If that means I have to be hard in my training methods to ensure my dog and my team go home safe, so be it! All you lose in a competition is points, but if we lose, we lose our lives!!!!
3.  I am willing to take advice or criticism from any one, but preference will be given to people having experience with tracking dogs in a big five environment going up against armed thugs who do not value any life, human or animal!!!!!!
4.  I know many will not agree with me regarding my training methods, but that's ok, we get results and spend time with our best friend in the African bush doing what we love and that's all that matters! Not many people can say that! :-o
5.  I take my hat off to Miki and Holly!!!! It was not easy for them, not knowing what they got themselves into, send off to dark Africa, sleeping in the bush with no toilet facilities and the only water you have is what you brought with you! Many of the people criticising them online would not have made it one day! So my hat off to Miki & Holly, I saw you grow to more mature responsible people in front of my eyes! And it was not a show to make good tv, that was just a bonus!
6.  Miki and Holly you rock! Don't forget the lessons learnt in Africa!
Henry@k9security.co.za

Hi Henry. How nice to have your input. My hats off to you and your team for the work you do with the anti-poaching team.
Your dogs looked very fit and well in a hard environment.
Keep up the good work.
Aileen

PS I can probably do 3 kennels in about 20 mins if thats any good to you LOL.

Hi Henry
As you will have seen I was one who loved the programme and I said I believe Malinois cannot be trained just softly -I have 8 of my own. (Mine are all pets/show dogs, but I have bred security and police dogs.) Your dogs in the programme showed great temperament and both my husband and I were very impressed. We don't use choke chains in the UK (most training clubs have banned them) and we find we can do fine without them, not even all police use them although some do, most of us also don't support the pack leader theory, but when all is said and done, your dogs were clearly very happy (I so recognised the exuberant Malinois bounce!), well trained and in good condition, and you do great work!

Hello Henry,

I was not taking issue with your training methods but rather with the premise and format of the film- but clearly I am in the minority and most on here seemed to enjoy it. Actually, I would have liked to see much more of your training and more on how the characters developed- that for me was a problem arising out of a formatted programme which probably deserved a much longer slot. Alas, television often boils everything down and my fear was/is that some younger viewers may just think- bite work, how cool...and try to give it a go. However, I am more than happy to be proved wrong.

I felt your message to the young guy about the real meaning of manhood was well done.....does he stay in touch with you?

I think it's great that you have come on here to have your say and perhaps we can look forward to more input from you in future?

Hi to all, thank you for the friendly welcome! I have to say that I have not seen the
program as it is blocked on BBC outside SA, so it is very difficult to give input,
but I found it very difficult to express myself on camera as I'm Afrikaans speaking and sometimes
when I get exited I lose the English words and thus the "Boss" is used .

Miki do keep in touch via Facebook and he sure did make some big changes as a dog owner.
It was remarkable to see him change as the penny dropped and I am very humbled by the
fact that I was allowed to be part of the process.

I did enjoy the program although at times you did start to wonder why the girl even had a dog,but if no one has ever shown you,you just dont know,i think she might of found out the hard way! a good lesson in putting your dog on a lead,i see so many off a lead,no collar atall it seems like a fashion right now.
Watching the dogs tracking was amazing for me,i have never seen this and to know that all this is being done to prevent the slaughter of rhinos (just because some nutcase thinks powderd horn can cure anything,)i think its brilliant.
Well done and god bless to you henry and all your team for risking your lives everyday to save the lives of animals so precious to our planet.
Ash.

> Hi to all, thank you for the friendly welcome! I have to say that I have not seen the
> program as it is blocked on BBC outside SA,

Hi Henry! What a special treat to hear from you personally on the forum.

I am sure if you contact the BBC they will happily send you a DVD/video of the show - it's a fairly common courtesy for those who have taken part in a TV show. Otherwise - it's not something I can do, but perhaps one of our more technologically-minded folk on here could download it and burn to a DVD for you? What format do you have for DVD/video in SA? (I know it varies across the world).

Loved your dogs and as a Malinois owner/admirer it was a real joy to see them working. I've never cleaned a kennel in my life (yet) but I'd certainly have a go if I had the chance to visit you! :)

It's great that you have come to the forum - I have to say I am one who will remain vehemently in disagreement with  you over harsh handling/choke chains etc - thats not to say that some dogs don't require a firmer or tougher regime than others, of course they do. I have a staffy x here who needs things in black and white, cast iron rules and he is not asked.. hes told, hes that kinda dog. Same routine with some of my other dogs would get you precisely nowhere though. Positive training can and does cover both sorts of dog, I use it on all of mine and no, not all care for a clicker (funnily enough the tough guy LOVES it, the softer 'easier' dogs couldn't give a monkeys) and it is in no way 'permissive'.

On the other hand I said in a previous post and its worth repeating, it was AMAZING to hear a REAL 'tough guy' telling a kid like Miki that it DOESNT matter what other people think of him, its what he knows about himself thats important. So so many kids like him are trying to create an image to intimidate others and when they do this, through fear of 'what people think' they live their lives in fear of other people. That vicious cycle goes on and on and makes matters so much worse, so it was really great to hear you say that.

If the BBC don't send you a dvd, it might be possible to use an anonymous proxy server (easily found by googling) to use to get access to the iPlayer site (I haven't done it with that site but I have successfully watched stuff from teh USA that way).

Hi Henry

How lovely it is to have to on our forum - welcome!  I really really enjoyed the programme.  My husband is South African and I've visited many times.  I do believe that different dogs need different approaches - and in the environment you work safety is such a big issue.

I did particularly like the bit when you told Holly to look at you whilst you were talking - it was pretty obvious no one had taught her basic manners! 

It's a great shame you can't see the programme - can you not access the BBC iplayer on the net (someone help me out - is it on there?)

One thing which saddens me in SA is that there is not the culture of walking your dog there.  Here it is a national sport, and few breeders would sell a pup to someone who said they didn't intend to walk it.  Having spoken to lots of South Africans I think it's got something to do with the belief that a larger garden means it's sufficient to leave the dog to exercise itself, the fact that many dogs are kept for protection and so belong at home, and sometimes people mention safety.  Any thoughts?

Many thanks again for coming onto our forum.

Just got round to watching the programme and I enjoyed it too, both my Malinois sat watching it with me :) It was nice to see them working and loving their jobs.