Hi

just wanted to post about yesterday. my homebred girl gave birth to 12 puppies on saturday morning (after 3 unsuccessful tries on previous seasons, timing of matings were clearly out before). After a much wanted litter we were delighted that everything went well and she delivered very well, my most uneven litter i must say as she had 11 girls and 1 boy!  It is a boy i have been wanting for myself so very thankful there is one gorgeous little man in there.

Anyway one puppy was VERY thin at birth, i have had small puppies in the past but this puppy was not just small but very thin and long looking. She appeared to struggle to find the teat at first but did with me holding her in place til she finally found it, i checked her for cleft palate or any other mouth problems, all appeared normal. she fed ok but never seemed as vigourous as they others, i made sure she had every opportunity to feed as much as she wanted, staying up through the night as i always do, she seemed content...feeding and sleeping. Sunday she seemed far less interested in feeding, i gave puppy stim at birth and again on sunday and kept a close eye on her. Sunday afternoon she gave two strange gasps after feeding and then appeared ok again but quiet. I offered her some whelpi by syringe and she wanted it so i was encouraged by that and she fed of mum a little and also took some whelpi. i done this every 1-2 hrs and she seemed content. sunday night she was sleeping quietly when she suddenly started screaming, it was a horrendous noise and mum was totally freaked out and became very distressed. she didnt want the teat and just kept screaming no matter what i tried. i took her to the bedroom while my mum sat with the dam as she was very distressed. i sat with her on a hot watter bottle and my hands cupped over her so she could still smell mummy. but she was continuing to scream for what seemed like forever i sat with tears running down my face feeling so helpless. she began pulling up her legs so i gave her some gripe water in the hope it was just trapped wind. This did settle her down in about half hr but then she would intermitently whine, the loud scream had stopped but she still moaned. i left her to rest for a couple of hrs and then tried her with puppy stim which again she took. An hr later i tried whelpi which she also took but as she took it she continued to cry. the crying got more intense and the screaming started again. it was at this point that i felt i should let her go as she was clearly distressed and trying was going to be to satisfy my own conscience. i took her to my vet who agreed it was kinder to let her go than to keep trying and i held her while he put her to sleep, then brought her home and burried her in the garden.
Also once she had been put to sleep she had milk come out her nose so i think she may have ingested milk into her lungs which started me thinking had i caused it by interfering and syringe feeding a small amount of milk which was given very slowly
Last night as i always do i second guessed myself. did i give up too quickly, should i have tried something more, maybe pain relief and see hoe she went for another 24hrs?  has anyone had a puppy screaming like that and pull through?

I know sometimes these things just happen and sadly it is something that is something you may have to face when breeding but its so upsetting, to hear her crying broke my heart and of course now i am on edge with the rest of the litter.
God bless little lady.....at peace now :(

MandyC, I don't know what was wrong with your pup, it could have been a few things, it could have been sorted in time, it may have made no difference what you and the vet did, but don't think on it now, the decision was made and the only thing you need to think on now is that without human intervention a dam would have killed (most likely scenario) or completely pushed away such a pup and left it to die, it would never have survived left just to the dam.   That is nature...........

You tried and it broke your heart trying, let it go now........... you have 11 more pups to care for and give your heart to, just keep that boy going as he is the reason for the litter, wipe your tears and enjoy watching this little lot grow into bouncing happy pups.

You did your best possible for the pup, the mum and the rest of the litter. That is what you are there for. RIP little pup. I hope you can relax and enjoy your beautiful babies xx

hi mandy afew years ago my girl had 13 pups a massive litter for a small/med size gundog breed...2 were dead at birth :( but thats just 1 of them thing with such a big litter (but it still hurts)....and i lost my very 1st pup at 1week old like you i was giving her bits of milk trying to get her to mum all the time but day7 her breathing changed i took her to the vets at 1030 eve on a saturday night they told me to leave her their and they would see whats happening well she was put to sleep next day they put it down to FPS i broke my heart so i know what pain your feeling (((hugs))) i still have tears fall when i think about that...i just dont cope with loss :(

Hi Mandy,
My bitch gave birth to 11 puppies, she was so exhausted by the last two that I think they were expelled a while after the placentas came away from the uterine wall and number 10 took a fair bit of rubbing and ressucitating but once breathing was fine and number 11 showed no signs of life. I tried for about 10 minutes trying CPR and rubbing him and letting the dam lick him and then gave up. Then the following day read a website where the author said how she tried to bring round seemingly dead puppies and had been successful a full 20 minutes after the puppy was born showing no signs of life for all that time. I tormented myself that I only tried for 10 minutes and I might have been successful if I tried longer or used different methods but at the end of the day I did all I could and my lovely bitch is doing a grand job with 10 and maybe who knows the whole litter may not have been so healthy and thriving with one more competing for teats. You did your best, that's all you can do. There is a risk of asperation when supplimenting feeds in newborn pups but at the end of the day she was weak and thin and may well have died anyway by the sounds of it and you did what you could and made sure she didn't suffer long.

I had a similar experience with a pup, I nursed him 24/7 and literally never put him down - other than the rare time that he seemed well enough to feed off his mum. He had two lots of antibiotics and biosolvon. There were fleeting moments where I thought he may actually make it so, encouraged by my breed mentor at the time, i persevered. He was PTS at two weeks old, vet said either an undeveloped heart or lungs were the most likely cause. In hindsight, all I did was prolong this poor little chaps agony - and ours, it really was an horrendous two weeks. Never again, would I take such advice - after the first lot of antibiotics had failed to work, we really should have let the little man go.
Needless to say, I feel you did absolutely the right thing. xxx

I had a similar thing, struggled on for 11 days with top up feeding feedinh from Mum and no weight gain. 

Yes, same for me. My pup died exactly the same weight he was born :-(

Totally the right decision, but always very sad.

Mandy you did what you thought right, the puppy was distressed, and whos to say that if you left the pup it would not have a life of pain before you said enough xxxx
Do not beat yourself up over it, you did all you could xxx You do the VERY best for all your dogs, and noone would expect more.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Lea xxx

Oh Mandy how I feel for you.  Why does it happen to people like us, who do their utmost to get it right?

I had a litter of 2 pups about 6 years ago.  Mum was definitely not going to rear them, she'd had a section and just wouldn't take to them (I never bred from that line again.)

But after a week of handrearing, and the bitch doing very well, the boy was still as small as he was when I had brought them home from the hospital.  At 9 days I had to admit defeat and have him PTS.  I have never gotten over the guilt I felt.  I often wonder if I let him live too long. 

Push it as far to the back of your mind as it is possible to do Mandy.  We can't let these things destroy us, and spoil our love of our canines.
Jean  xx

I'm so sorry to hear this sad news, but yes, you did the right thing for the poor baby. xxx

Thanks everyone.  in the moment of the decision i had no doubt it was absolutely the right thing after hearing her scream and cry all through the night.

Its only after its done i start to think, maybe she could of had pain relief and then give her another 24hrs and see what happens, then i think what if she was just hungry as she hadnt fed that strongly? 

i will deal with it but just like you white lilly i dont cope very well with loss either and always take any loss very hard.

i think because i have in the past had 2 tiny puppies that i never thought would make it but with 24hr care and help they made it (one stayed here) and that feeling is just so wonderful that when it goes the other way its a horrible sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I must say the other 2 i did get through never ever showed any pain or distress or vocalised at all, the screaming is what distressed me so much that i just couldnt go on as i couldnt possibly know what was wrong or how much pain this puppy was in.

Having said that 4 yrs ago i had a puppy like yours Jean that was smaller and weaker and just never grew, i had her with me 24/7 and fed and toileted and she seemed content just never grew, then just completely out the blue she began gasping and she died within 2 hrs....she was 3 weeks old and looked like a week old so if i think of her then i try to believe my choice was right this time as it could well have been a similar situation i guess :(

Oh the heartache, makes you wonder why we do it.....but then i have some wonderful dogs today that make every second of it soooo worth it.

Thanks to everyone for your kind words.....you are always here to support my dark days and it is very much appreciated x  

so sorry to hear of your loss it sounds as though she was in alot of discomfort so you deffinatly did the best thing ........ and congratulations on the other 11 especially your long awaited little boy xx