Hi all, I am new here and not very computer literate so please bear with me. I have decided to change my two newfy's over to a barf diet, mostly because of the skin problems they are constantly having. I have read several books and think I have got the hang of the basic principals but I have a question about the fruit and vegetables. I understand that they have to be blended but do you blend them individually or all together, e.g. all fruit together or apple banana pear and not mix them up? Also are there any combinations you would recommend I stay away from? Do I give a vegetable potion for breakfast and a fruit portion for tea? Do you mix it through the meat or keep it separate?

That suddenly seems like a lot of questions! Hope somebody can help.

Karen

> That suddenly seems like a lot of questions! Hope somebody can help.

That's OK, we all have to make a start. Well done you for giving raw feeding a go. I'm no expert but have raw fed for a few years now. I usually blend a batch of veggies/fruit about once a week. I freeze most of it and dole it out each day till it's gone.

I put all the stuff in the blender together. I like to include spinach for skin, bananas for prebiotics, carrots, then whatever else I have around. I read somewhere that pak choi is good (can't remember why, sorry!) so often include that. I also use pears, apples, spring greens etc.

I dish the fruit/veggie mix up with the meat in the evening. I also give an oil supplement then too. Sometimes they have a helping of live yogurt, and occasionally manuka honey if I think anyone needs it. Although I feed twice a day, I give an uneven split so less food in the morning. They seem to eat better that way, and it fits in with our exercise regime to feed less in the morning and more in the evening.

Hope that helps, quite often it's a case of playing it by ear. Good luck!

My lot go absolutely mad for fruit and veg!
Peas, runner & french beans, strawberries, gooseberries. (they help themselves to apples from the tree and stripped my garden of soft fruits last year) I have since erected a fence to keep scrumpers out! If i've just brought the veg back from the allotment and forgotten to close the kitchen door they will help themselves straight from the bag.

I do the same as Esme and put the veg, including pea shells and any outer layers of greens etc through the mincer and then freeze it. I find it much easier to quantify and measure out. I too give live yoghurt which i freeze into ice cube trays, oils for joints and coats, keepers mix and garlic powder. All of this is mixed in with the raw meat.
Never any leftovers.

Thank you both very much. I like the idea of doing the blending in batches and freezing, I'll definately do that. I was concerned about the bones, especially with the youngest who tends to hoover her dry food up as quickly as possible, but I tried her with chicken wings this week, with my heart in my mouth, and she was fine:)

You will need to feed offal too and I find mine prefer that blitzed in the food processor first.  If I then chuck raw veg in the processor after the liver, it helps clean the machine and means that I don't waste any liver.  Incidentally the liver helps hold the veg together if you want to freeze it in ice cube trays or I use silicone muffin trays.

I don't think that dogs actually need fruit and veg but I know mine like it and certainly does no harm.  In truth they always graze fresh grass, and will eat fallen orchard fruits so they must be pretty keen and get some benefit, even if it's only for the taste of it :)  Do keep an eye on quantities though, by the time you've blitzed fruit and veg the volume is so reduced that it's easy to overfeed and upset their tummies - imagine the effect of gorging on fruit.  I actually only feed it it once a week or so and would find that twice a day is too much for my three dogs.  Just see how you get on

I have been feeding raw for years however not to the letter that some would like. I would say, don't worry if you don't conform to what a particular group like if it works for you and your dogs then that is fine.

There is the arguement that dogs do not need fruit and veg and find it hard to digest. This is what I do with my fruit and veggies  (not saying it's right!!) I blitz it all in my magimix, if I have too much ( ie left over veg, uneaten salad) then I will blitz it a few times to break it down and then freeze it in ice cube trays and use it when I require it. Everything goes in together.

You should not feed anything from the  onion family. Mine love strawberries and eat them off the plant. I feed spinach for skin, stops them scratching like nothing else I know, tomatos ( fruit fruit veg meant to be helpful in prevention of cancer) Just be careful with root veg, cabbage, cauliflower can produce unpleasant smells in my 4. I think try one particular veg at a time so if there is a reaction ( ie loose poos) then you can pinpoint what may have caused it. 
There is a BARF yahoo group, I have just found a raw feeding group on Face Book  which I believe is run by a Champ Dog member, seems very friendly and much more relaxed about the subject.

Hope this helps. 

> You will need to feed offal too and I find mine prefer that blitzed in the food processor first.  If I then chuck raw veg in the processor after the liver

I blitz carrot in the processor with the liver as one of mine isn't keen on just the liver :) :)

Thanks for the advice and tips everyone. Think its going to take a while of introducing new tastes to them for me to work out what works and what doesn't, expecially the older of the two, her stomach is very sensitive to food changes so I'll be taking it slowly with her, but I'm sure I'll get there in the end.

Hi, I have been feeding raw for 11 years and mine get fruit and veg most days. I do not follow any hard and fast rules about quantities, frequencies etc.

Onions must not be fed to dogs in any form as they can cause haemolytic anaemia which can be fatal. Avocados contain persin which can produce problems in some animals.

All other vegetables may be fed however, for a dog to get any nutritional benefit from vegetables, they must either be pulped or frozen, otherwise they go out the way they went in and can only be used as source of fibre.

Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach or Chard.

Care should also be taken not to overfeed vegetables from the cruciferous family eg cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.

Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods which may exacerbate their condition.  It is doubtful if raw potato can be digested successfully in any case.

Garlic is a useful addition to the diet as it performs an antiseptic, antibiotic, antifungal function.

You can feed all fruit except grapes (and raisins) which can cause kidney failure and death in even very small amounts.  Bananas are an excellent source of pre-biotics essential for gut health (and are great blended with live yoghurt, manuka honey and slippery elm food for dodgy tums).

Bear in mind fruit and/or vegetables should not make up more than 10% of diet and can have a laxative effect!

Vegetables and fruit provide many phytonutrients not available from animal sources some of which we as yet do not understand but some of which are thought to have health benefits such a carotenoids, lycopene, flavonoids, indoles, sulforaphanes, anthcyanins, sterols, elegiac acid and lignans

Kelp (seaweed) and alfalfa (lucerne) are examples of green supplements which provide a wide range of vitamins, minerals and neutraceuticals.

Brilliant, thanks. Knew about raisin, forgot grapes are the same thing. Planning on starting next week. Had a bit of a problem finding someone who supplied bones, our local butchers don't sell them, but got that sorted now hopefully. Thanks again
karen

> gooseberries.

Was just wondering where you get the gooseberries from Zebedee. We used to grow them years ago. Nowadays I can't seem to find them in the shops and would love to grow them again.

Quite recently our parish council were trying to get people to grow gooseberries again but in the end, were unable to supply the plants, not quite sure why.

Sorry to hijack your thread newfy2. I just felt inspired by someone growing gooseberries. If I ever get to grow any again, I'm not sharing with the dogs!

http://www.marshalls-seeds.co.uk/gooseberry-bushes-cid296.html

These look nice :-)

> These look nice :-)

They do don't they. I think our parish council were trying to be a bit purist about it and were trying to source a local variety. I expect the modern bushes are a bit hardier.
I'll give it a go. We've fenced off our fruit/veggie patch because of our canine hooligans, so will have to make a space.

Esme I haven't been on-line for a while so apologies for not replying sooner.

Two of my gooseberry bushes came from freecycle and the other two i bought on-line. I haven't a clue what variety they are but they taste lovely raw or cooked. They freeze well too.

http://www.dobies.co.uk/Garden/Fruit/Soft+Fruit/Gooseberry/list.htm?gclid=CL-O15aUq68CFUkMtAodww6zXg

and ive just seen these on ebay....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1X-3FT-LARGE-GOOSEBERRY-INVICTA-BUSH-FRUIT-PLANT-B-R-/150691794396?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2315ee4ddc#ht_4191wt_905

wow, that's really helpful, thank you tohme. I actually slipped a bit of banana in their dinners last week--they'd refused it on its own but just about managed it mashed in with the meat dish, they are definitely enjoying much more of a raw diet!

It's lovely when they start to enjoy fruit and veg :)

Given the dog's most likely route of domestication, they would scavenge anything - animal and vegetable - as many still do in feral situations.

My fridge is packed with veg which hopefully will be for the human beans - 5 a day and all that - but the rest will go into the blender for 'Dog Salad'. I know some raw feeders don't include veg [I didn't at first] but there was a definite improvement when I did. I don't always stick to the 10% veg advised, a little more veg and a little less meat & bone can really keep a dog in lean condition, depending on the dog.

As an aside, I have read that dandelion leaves have more Prebiotics than bananas... Will throw a few into my dog salad now they're coming up all nice and tender.

I feed some fruit and veg, but I'm not worried if we go few days without. I look at it this way, in the Northern countries like Canada, Russia and even Finland wolves' prey would not have any fresh fruit and veg in their bellies because the ground is covered with 6ft of snow. Deer and reindeer live on dry grass. lichen through the winter, not FRESH fruit and veg. If they can survive, I'm sure my dogs can manage couple of days without their 5 a day.
This is also very interesting http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

Thanks for the links Zebedee - most kind.

I should also thank you for that link. It was a good time reading something like that. I'm currently feeding my peke now with raw plus some veggies and fruits like what the others here do. O think she really like the crunch plus the coolness of fruits being frozen. And I think she like it even more today since it was a little hotter than before.