Last night at a party my husband was talking to a man who had a border collie with a very real problem.  Chasing cars is a common obsessional problem with collies I know - but it is usually the movement that triggers the dog to chase from what I have seen. This dog lives in a rural area and responds to the noise of a vehicle and runs off to find it.   It has been recovered on the main road 4 miles from his home.  They can't let this dog off the lead anywhere because there is always the noise of a vehicle somewhere in the distance that will trigger it running off.  I think it made my husband suddenly feel that our dog is easy compared with this!!  How sad!

I knew a collie that chased areoplanes! never caught one though!

But it isn't an impossible behaviour problem is it?  It is a dog in the hands of the wrong owner, who hasn't got a clue about socialisation and training.

One man and his dog has a lot to answer for!  So many people thought - great this breed is so obedient!   Grrr!
Thinking they came like that!  Most Border Collies are smarter than the average pet owner.  It's a shame, because, much as the pet owners love their Collies, they are not the ideal pet, and not for the dog owner with no knowledge about Collies.

I do feel sorry for the dog.  I once had a Bearded Collie pup that had been socialised with pigs, horses, cats etc.  She came from a country home and wasn't used to lorries - she was petrified of traffic.  In my hands she soon lost her fears, but many pet owners don't even make the effort to ask for help.

Someone at work asked me what to do about her daughter in laws Border Collie.  While they were at work ALL DAY, he was left in the back garden, and ran in circles over and over again.  They wanted to know how to stop him spoiling the grass.

I can't tell you my reply, as I offended them.

I didn't actually get to meet this man - my husband told me about it afterwards - this dog is only the second dog he has ever owned.   It certainly seems that it's brain hasn't been excercised enough and it has made it's own 'fun'.  However good dogs are on tv most people surely know that it isn't unusual to see a collie lying in waiting for a passing car outside the farm gates.    I heard another story the other day about one that actually broke it's jaw by biting tyres - and before it healed he broke it again.  This was a working dog who is kept outside.   It is going to be a very difficult habit to break - certainly one that will need loads of time and effort  and by someone who is experienced.   On another note a guy came along our lane this morning and let his dogs off.  They both headed into the field with sheep and lambs.  One returned to him and the other disappeared as did the sheep - he spent ages walking up and down whistling.  The dog eventually reappeared and the last I saw of him was both dogs off the lead again and running down the lane.  No control no sense.

jeansw,I completly agree with you,lots of people seem to think collies are born walking to heel,the truth is,generally,they are easy to train as they want to please you,and to work,but you have to put the work in or they become self employed!My Jess is only as good as she is because she is a border collie,not because I am a good trainer,because Im not,but I do try,and she responds.I feel sorry for the dog,too,and the poor bored one running in circles.

drives me up the wall when I see adverts for collies in the paper and the line 'make great pets' or the like.  They don't unless you are really prepared to put the hard work in, do that and you will be rewarded everyday with their loyalty and love.

I knew a collie that chased areoplanes! never caught one though!

I knew an OES that did that, completely bonkers puppy mill dog.

> They don't unless you are really prepared to put the hard work in, do that and you will be rewarded everyday with their loyalty and love.

Quite - but even then they are not an easy breed if you happen to have one like mine.  Bless her she just started barking like crazy as she spotted a sheep up the field - then by the sound of it she spotted a cat going across the garden.  I went to check it out and asked her to sit - she did and calmed down.  So pleased with that.  However agility club tonight is a nightmare - the atmosphere and close proximity of too many dogs is really too much for her - but I keep working away at it.  I am one of those people who believed - in spite of reading up about collies - that I could handle a collie.  It was still a huge eye-opener - she is only my third dog (not counting the dog we had when I was in my teens that had to be rehomed when my Mum found out she was expecting again)  ~Even trying to do my homework I fell into the trap.  Can't blame this guy - it is so easy to do and the sort of advice that people get is - you are not firm enough - discipline him, show him who is boss, get a rolled up newspaper and give him one on the nose .....  

Oh mine chases aeroplanes etc too - only when she is in the garden - it works too because they go away :-)

>the sort of advice that people get is - you are not firm enough - discipline him, show him who is boss, get a rolled up newspaper and give him one on the nose .....   <br />

Oh god how I hate that sort of advice.  I would knock all the stuffing out of my BC boy if I was like that with him.

If he doesn't do what I ask of him it is MY fault.  You can see how he really wants to please me, and I haven't been clear enough. 

I have to agree with colliepam.  When people think how well I have done with my boy, they tend to think that I am good at training.  Alas, it is him that is the star, not me.  I do agree with dvnbiker about what they give back though.  I have never had such devotion from any breed.  The Collie has to be the most loyal.

I think every single one of mine (I have three) have taught me something different from sensitivity issues to chase issues, we have worked through each and every one and I have to say I am rather proud of them all.  All do agility and love it.

totally agree what you have said Jean, it is always our fault in some way

my eldest bitch was  tested a  good few years ago to see if she has the instinct to herd. She switched on in seconds and passed with flying colours. Her daughter failed miserably with no interest in the sheep whatsoever.
My point is that my bitch in the last year or so (she is 9yrs in June) has started barking at buses ,white vans ,motorbikes, cars are not a problem.
I do find this rather odd at this age that she would suddenly begin to show an interest in this way. My vet thinks its partly her age and the fact she is a collie, we had her eyes tested and ears ..he found a slight infection deep in her ears which was treated. I distract her when I see the vehicles coming but she is mostly too quick for me.
I do think its partly to do with the fact she has the collie instinct but to appear this late on in life is very strange.

This isn't just a collie thing though(expecting the dog to come out the packet-readymade).  I remember my old neighbour who used to compliment me on my control as I had 8 (mixed sex) akitas and a cocker.  They were all very well-trained and obedient so he thought the dog think would be easy.  He bought one black lab and never trained or walked the poor dog.  Tied it to the rails in the back garden and wondered where he went wrong!!Argh!  Dogs don't come ready trained, people need to put the time and effort in to make them good dogs! You wonder why so many kids go bad?

With this guys collie, would you not just need to steer the obsession towards something less dangerous? (I'm not a collie person, Far too intellengent for me!!)  I've met a collie with an obsession with lights.  Flickering lights in her home.  She will sit and stalk the lights for hours like in a trance.  Owner now thinks it's OK as she can exercise her with a torch in the garden.  I suppose it's better than chasing her up the motorway! 

Well he lives in a farmhouse so I suppose he thought he could just leave the collie outside to sit and watch the world go by.  But this sound thing is the worst because you don't know when the dog hears something - unlike a vehicle going by that you can train a focus on oneself - (this is the biggest mistake I think that I have made - not getting that focus when young - the tug toy, the foundations of training.  I taught her how to sit, down, come etc but not that all important focus on me whatever.)  If I had this collie I would go right back to basics.  But even so I don't think he would ever be able to just let the dog outside to lie down in the sun and do it's own thing.   The problem is that we can't hear the sound of the vehicle - the collie can.  My dog is visual - once she has her 'eye in' it is very difficult to break.  I have to be on the alert and distract her before this happens.  That is why I think short of fitting the dog with ear plugs this problem is almost impossible to extinguish.

> This isn't just a collie thing though(expecting the dog to come out the packet-readymade).&nbsp;

:-)  Spot on.  So many folk like the IDEA of having a pet.  Unfortunately, as cracar says, they're not ready made.  People think there is some abracadabra that will make everything fine with no effort on their part. To be honest, dogs are hard work.  Think of how hard it is just rearing our litters.  Joe Public doesn't realise how much you need to put in, to get back.

I once had someone wanting a pup, and they had no canine experience.  I asked them to read "The Perfect Puppy" before making a decision.  When they had done so, I asked how they felt.  The answer was "blimey, if I did everything I'm supposed to, there wouldn't be time to do anything else."  I said yes - dogs are hard work.  Even when I explained that you needed to put in this amount of effort to get the perfect adult, and then things got easier, they decided it was too much like hard work!

ceejay,it does sound as if meg is extra hard work,mine can be bats,but you have done wonders with her and i think its great that you love her so much to put the hard work in.

Thanks Colliepam - as I know you have > put the hard work in  --  I have nearly given up on a number of occasions - it is not just training the dog you know - but the family around her.  Still working hard at it.

I got my BC about ten years ago from a rescue centre. All i knew was that she was kept indoors all day while the owners were at work. it took her a long time to accept me as her owner. Loyalty i guess!

She had a thing for shadows and lights. I couldn't cross my legs without her pouncing at my feet. I bought a book about teaching dogs tricks, everyone said i was being cruel but as we all know a collie needs more than a walk in the park. Brain work is just as important.
She learns so quick, i mean in a matter of minutes and loves her Nina Ottoson toys and she knows how to share and take it in turns with the other motley crew.
I have to agree with what others have posted, collies are not for the novice dog owner.
My girl was hard work to start with to get her out of her bad habits but my goodness she is my rock and i'd be lost without her.

Thats lovely,zebedee,give her a hug from me!

The problem is that many collies are born with a predisposition and inherent/instinctive need to be herding/stalking.  If they are provided with the right objects to herd/stalk at an early enough age (sheep), then the instinct will be attached to that and is likely only to be seen around that object (sheep).  If the dogs go to pet homes with owners who don't know much about collies, then no suitable object or outlet for the behaviour will be presented and the dog will attach the behaviour to all kinds of inappropriate things - sometimes quite desperately and weirdly removed things (like this running miles at the sound of a car issue).  The more this happens, the more hard-wired into the dogs brain it becomes that THIS is the thing to stalk/herd, and the harder it is to change.  At an early age, collie owners need to be playing lots of ball and tuggy games and getting the dog locked onto *these* things as the appropriate objects.

> At an early age, collie owners need to be playing lots of ball and tuggy games and getting the dog locked onto *these* things as the appropriate objects.

I think that was what I was trying to say.  I entirely agree.  But through playing with these things they are focussing on you - not the toy!  I envy those owners who walk along with the dog ahead of them watching them carefully.  All good things should come from you! It has taken me nearly 7 years to learn this and I don't feel ready for another dog yet - although with time ticking by I know that the window for taking on another young dog to train up for agility is getting shorter.  I won't take on another dog until I can feel I have done right by this one.

Excellent post Rabid

Yes,agree,rabid!Years ago, with my first collie,we used to joke that the ball was the replacement sheep!

It doesn't matter if the dog is a collie or whatever breed it is, it should not be given the opportunity to run off for whatever reason. If unattended it should be somewhere secure, and if it runs off while he is with it, he should not let it off where it could be in danger. All the training suggestions made are very valid, but in the meantime, the lead is the best training aid of all.

It doesn't matter if the dog is a collie or whatever breed it is, it should not be given the opportunity to run off for whatever reason.

Exactly. And car chasing isn't a Collie thing or herding. ALL mine do it. The Malinois, the Papillons, the Cavalier, the crossbreeds -maybe not the so slow he's almost asleep Golden. It's simply something so extremely satisfying for a dog, ESPECIALLY a dog in a rural area where very little happens, because chasing a car WORKS! The car goes by -here it may be one car an hour if that -the dogs chase and bark (in my case from BEHIND the fence which they cannot get over!! We even have it overlapping on the top to play safe), the car speeds off. They chased it off, it vanished, it worked! So they are even more likely to do it next time.

To be fair,it does say in the original post that they cant let the dog off the lead,so apparently,theyve had to learn the hard way.

Shame they can't find somewhere dog-proof as dog will get even more frustrated if he is denied free running, it's what collies are designed for.

> it's what collies are designed for

As are all dogs - I had an English Setter that was dreadful off lead - he would range to the limits of what he saw as his area and then come back when he was ready.  I was late for work on a number of occasions until I gave up letting him off lead.  He was also an escape artist being able to open all unlocked doors around him - both inward facing and outward.  We had to be very careful.  In an enclosed space he would come back and sit in front of me with a butter wouldn't melt in his mouth look - in the open he was gone.  It was only when he slowed down in old age that he got to walk off lead - sad but safer than causing an accident.  I didn't have champdogs or any other advice in those days.