After 5 years in my breed I am now hoping to make the transition from a household of three dogs to bringing in a bitch puppy later this year--this has been a long time in the planning and while I technically can manage all of them during seasons (e.g. kennelling adjacent to the kitchen in a laundry room during the day, crating at night) I would be interested to hear how CDers manage, especially those with gundog breeds (mainly from the point of view of space, exercise and so on). My dogs are house dogs and are never normally kennelled, so I want to be sure they have the best I can offer. There is no one here to leave doors open and it's quite possible to have at least three doors shut between them. Is there a kind soul out there willing to share experience and advice? Thanks in advance!

I have 5 Large Munsterlanders. 2 males and 3 females. 2 of the bitches are spayed, so no problem, one male is infertile, so even if he caught the entire bitch I wouldn't have puppies :-( and I now have a 6 month old male, half brother to my young bitch, so no matings please ;-) I have had to crate my dogs. I have, in the past, tried to send my male elsewhere, but he pines so much he lost too much weight. I now have 2 crates (will have to be 3 from now on) strategically placed in the living room. When the bitch is in the crate the dog was loose, and vice versa. They were not allowed near one another, but could see one another. When I went to the loo, whichever was out came with me ;-) If I went out they were both crated. If I knew I couldn't supervise, they were both crated. At night I had another crate beside my bed, wedged between the bed and chest of drawers. the bitch was in the crate with the dog loose. He would have to stand on me to get to the bitch :-D

It works for me, but I only have my almost 18 year old daughter living with me, and she has nothing to do with the dogs, spending most of her time in her own room (typical teenager) but knows full well that if there is a dog in the crate it stays there.

ETA: After the first time my male knew that he couldn't get to her so didn't whine and try to get into the cage, except when she was at the height of her season, much better than when I tried to keep them in separate rooms. Now he doesn't bother at all. No idea what the youngster is going to do, may have to send him back to his breeder (and co-owner) for a few days :-p

ok, that really helps, LindyLou, thanks very much! I panicked slightly thinking crates would not be enough. I can crate them all separately when I need to. My 24 year old son is rarely around except in the evenings and won't get involved in any way. My main worry was the dogs getting upset and losing condition, but it sounds like this is not necessarily the norm.

My entire boy used to howl, whine, refuse food, throw up if he ate, and so on, so we had friends look after him wherever possible, and on the rare occasion it wasn't, hubby would take him to work so he could eat and sleep there during the day to make up for the stressing out he did in the evenings. Even a floor up and 3 doors away we could hear him, and when I went to sit with him he was inconsolable, he wouldn't settle at all, poor boy. Sadly I have lost him now, but it does make seasons much easier - my neutered boy is marginally interested just towards the end of a season, and although we put them in separate rooms just in case while we are out, they can all be round each other without any trouble if we keep half an eye on them. I would say though, that although it was months before my first bitch came into season, I suspect it was the fact of her existence and changing from puppy to bitch that played a large part in my troubles when the 2 boys started fighting with each other. :-(

When we got our first bitch we had two males, one entire, one neutered. The neutered male knows she smells different as he sniffs her but when she reverses in to him flagging he walks away. Our entire boy is fine except foe 5 peak days in the middle of the season, and he switches in to it being the 'right time' as quick as you blink, so have to be very careful. He is great and if he can't see her (so in another room he calms down. Someone told me to cage side by side but that just made him hysterical. Bitch or dog goes to work with husband during the day at the peak times.

We have now kept a son of our bitch, so need to be extra careful a mating definitely does not take place. He's a howler! He was at his worst when she came into season when he was eight months, she has since had a second season and he wasn't so bad, so hopefully he will become more intuitive as he matures.

So for us it is only about five days and we can manage that, think you have to work out what works for you, but be careful. Our bitch flirts from day 3 to wind the boys up!

You also need to consider that the presence of a bitch in season, coming in season may cause fights between the males.  This can be breed and individual dependent.

I think I am too long in the tooth.  I couldn't be bothered with the hassle to be honest and I would get stressed out and then my girls would get stressed out, if I brought a little male into the home.  Big males(for some reasons) are a lot easier.  When I tried to add a male little gundog to my mix of girls, it was a nightmare.  For some reason, he was far more determined!! And we used cages and different rooms and everything but he would howl and scratch all the doors to get to her.  And he wouldn't eat for the entire 3 weeks so would look awful by the end of the month!  I lasted just over a year with that and then I gave in and let his breeder take over the showing/owership of him.  He was a fabulous stud!lol.  So, No, I would never do it again!

Basically, I think what we are all saying is, you won't know until you try it. You may find it easier to put either party(ies) to kennels for the in season period,or to family/friends, but until you try everything you won't know what works best for you and your household.

I've managed it for years and have a houseful of dogs.   Different breeds, different sexes and both entire and neutered.

The Collies are no problem.  The toys are the worst.  I have found that it is better that I don't expect to keep them totally away from each other.  I have 2 4ft crates in the kitchen, one on top of each other.  Always bitches at the top, so nobody can get close.  The bottom crate is not opened to let boys out until the girls are safely closed in.

I have one Yorkshire Terrier boy, and a couple of Long Coat Chihuahuas that are used at stud.  They are all put together in the bottom crate.  The males that are entire, but never been used, are in a crate in the utility room.  Door left open, so still sounds from the kitchen.  (Sorry, that means door to kitchen open, not door of crate open!)  They take it in turns to have a run round the garden, or play indoors.

My experienced boys only make a fuss when they know a bitch is ready.  It is worse than the dawn chorus.  But only lasts for 4-5 days, so is manageable.  The rest of the time, they spend cleaning each others ears and snuggling up.  I haven't got a clue why they never fight, but it has just never happened.  However, I am pretty assertive with them, and won't stand for nonesense. 

I think JAY15, you will play it by ear, and handle it so that things work for you.  I do think that males that have never been used are easier to deal with.  The experienced boys seem to say MINE, MINE, MINE!

As your bitches grow in number (Hee Hee :-) )  you will find them bringing each other in, so it's easier to cope, instead of always having a bitch in season.

this all makes very interesting reading :-). thank you all very much for sharing. None of my boys have ever been used and they never fight, in fact they usually curl up together for industrial ear washing and naps. We have a spayed bitch that visits us and on her overnight stay one of the boys even gave her his place on the pillows on the bed, bless him.

I'm looking forward to finding out what it's like...bearing in mind that the litter isn't due till next week so it could be that there are no girls :-)

I've done it in the past but would not again. It worked OK when I had outdoor kennels but at times I thought the neigbours would complain! Never again will I have dogs living in kennels (Just me not getting at those of you who do ) My household is nice and settled with 3 bitches and thats the way I want it to stay ! I could not be doing with all the stress and hassle of worrying about doors closed etc.. and with my above medium sized breed cages are really not an option unless I take over a whole room. Plus the fact that a determined male of my breed is quite capable of wrecking any cage if he wanted too! and probably a couple of doors to boot :-( Every time I stepped out of the door I would worry myself sick. I am happy to take on the occasional rescue who needs a short term foster and we have no problems with that. But as for a full time male resident...no thanks.
Aileen

I've seen so many friends have huge problems tha it's not something that I was tempted to do in 30 years.  I've only ever kept bitches and enjoyed a peaceful life. :)

I hope it works out well for you - you're braver than me! :)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> I could not be doing with all the stress and hassle of worrying about doors closed etc.. and with my above medium sized breed cages are really not an option unless I take over a whole room. Plus the fact that a determined male of my breed is quite capable of wrecking any cage if he wanted too! and probably a couple of doors to boot :-( Every time I stepped out of the door I would worry myself sick. I am happy to take on the occasional rescue who needs a short term foster and we have no problems with that. But as for a full time male resident...no thanks. <br />

Ditto, it would be possible now the kids are grown up and left home, but then I don't think OH would be much more reliable.

I actually don't see a problem. But then I've got 4 girls, only 1 neutered, and 2 entire males and seriously, it really isn't a problem! For the vast part of a season, so long as everyone's supervised they're all happy alongside each other (supervision is required!), my boys know when a girly is of real interest. If not supervised, then alternate rooms or boys in crate and girl/s out or vice versa. It's only a short period of time, unless you have a very special girly like one of mine :-D, and hopefully at most twice a year. With one girly, easy peasy :-)

I can walk my dogs together all through the seasons, so long as they're busy then they're not bothered ... maybe that's 'cause my breed has a strong work ethic, not sure. When girls at height of season I don't walk out and about locally as I don't want the hassle from other dogs, plus I think it highly unfair to other entire males in the area. Again, not a long period of time.

Not sure if of any help, but I do hear so many people perceive it as a problem, I don't - in my experience :-)

I give Rescue Remedy and Calms to the boys if they're really anxious, which they rarely are. One boy goes off his food for a few days but I just switch him to meat based rather than kibble with meat topper - that sorts it! I say don't worry!

Possibly it's my attitude that makes it not a problem. Same as that of my breeder friend/mentor. If you think there's going to be a problem there will be. If you don't expect problems, you'll get along swimmingly! Works for me :-D In all sorts of life's situations!!

That's very reassuring Trialist, thanks. I felt a momentary wobble and thought I had better check it out with people who are far more experienced so I can get ready (not change my mind!).

It's all getting very exciting--just applied for my kennel name as well so it feels way better than Christmas just now :-)

I would seriously hate to live my life without my boys or my girls. My boys are so willing and bidable, just lovely ... my girls are all very strong individuals - love them all to bits! If you've just the one girl it's easy ... mine don't always pull each other into season - not one of them has ever read a textbook. But I do believe that if you're relaxed, even if there is anxiety, then you will find a sensible solution to work around it.

Christmas is good, better than Christmas is even, well ... better :-D

All comments made from my experience before anyone leaps on me. There are always ways and means to deal with a problem!

> a determined male of my breed is quite capable of wrecking any cage if he wanted too!

my lad once ate a wall when the bitches were in season... he is a really randy boy though, such a shame i would never in a million years breed from him, he'd have been enthusiastic about his duties.

it was the serenading that bothered me when he lived with my families girls. sitting in his crate singing love songs, he always just seemed so sad :(

There has been a lot of focus on the dogs in the thread, do remember that a determined bitch will also find a way and are often far sneakier in their aims.

>do remember that a determined bitch will also find a way and are often far sneakier in their aims.

Astarte

They're called trollops in this house.  :-)

>Possibly it's my attitude that makes it not a problem

I couldn't agree more.  And I have thought this for all of my canine life.

I have had people ask me how I cope with the dog fighting!  ??????????

I mean HONESTLY!  Any growling to be done, and I'll do it.  :-)

I mean HONESTLY!  Any growling to be done, and I'll do it.  :-)

I just KNEW you'd growl ... so pleased I'm in such good company :-D