We bought a labrador from a first time breeder. She advertised the puppies as KC registered and to cut a long story short, we went, picked pup, saw dam and sire, saw both the parents kc papers etc. Breeder took our address and phone number to send papers to. Ive had Willow since January and still no papers. Ive contacted them twice. First time they said they were waiting for them to come and will forward them to me when they arrive, fair enough i thought. Weeks went by so i contact the breeder again, they say KC sent them but they got lost in post so are resending them, so i thought bit fishy but ill wait to see what happens and they estimated 2 weeks i would be waiting, its now been 4 weeks since they said this. Ive contacted the Kennel Club and they asked for the pups DOB, Dams name, address and names of owners, and because i dont know the owners' surnames, they said they couldnt help me and that i should have got a contract from them. I dont know what to do, i dont want to go to citizens advice because to be honest, im not that bothered that she doesnt have her papers, its the fact that ive been lied to! And it is false advertising. I really wanted the papers in case i decided to breed from her in future as i wanted to do it all properly and because she has 20 champions in her bloodline i think she is a really good example of the breed etc. Im not saying i will but the papers would be there in case i did decide to. Im really angry.

If you know the address you should be able to find them on the election register unless they have opted out, could try asking in the area what their name is.

Have to say it does sound dodge it only takes about a week to get the registration through and should have been with them when you collected the pup at 8 weeks. Think it highly likely you have managed to buy from an unscrupulous source.

Can you get a copy of the advert stating that they would be KC registered ? Then go to Trading Standards.

Is anyone happy with the puppy/service they've bought and receved lately? :( The amount of scams going on is unreal. :(

Did you see the parents hip scores, elbow scores and eye testing results? That would be my biggest worry. Have you got the parents names so you could check them on the KC health test finder? As far as breeding goes, 20 champions in the pedigree means nothing. Were you told she would not be endorsed?

You should be able to go to the small claims court - BUT you'll only get the difference between non reg value and reg value :-(  You should also complain to the KC and they will take action if enough people make such complaints - only this wont do you any good as what they do is ban the person for a set time.  My first puppy was bought from a person found in Exchange & Mart (no internet in those days!) obviously I was very naive and didn't know what I was doing.  Breeder promised to send me the papers... eventually I discovered that the KC banned him for 10 years so no chance of getting my pup registered.  No point in looking for money as clearly everyone else had done that... despite everything she was the best dog in the world so no regrets over having her, crying over her now, over 5 years later... we learned agility together and she rode 'shotgun' (in a harness) with me all around the country, usually telling me I should have 'turned left back there' or 'so and so lives here'.... or 'we've arrived at the show' :-)

Is anyone happy with the puppy/service they've bought and received lately? :-( The amount of scams going on is unreal. :-(

Yes, I am :-)

I was looking for a stud dog for my border collie, found what I wanted but he's in Belgium :-( Spoke with his owner a lot, thought about taking my bitch there, but when I heard he was to sire a litter over there put my name down for a pup instead.  Breeders (in Germany) have to be registered with a breed club, they are regulated, inspected and inspected again.  All health tests have to be done and dogs shown (if briefly).  The breeder's home was inspected before they could start breeding and had to be spot on.  The litter were inspected, tested, project similar to the new KC puppy socialising has been in operation for a while and he arrived with a book filled in... He's genetically clear of known DNA testable diseases, eye tested, parents hip scored etc etc etc.  I did have to wait until he was nearly 4 months old, drive 1,000 miles, sail 1,600 miles, take 4 days to do it, but I have a fantastic pup :-)

I did a similar thing (but was looking for a pup not a stud dog) when I got my USA sheltie - again a fantastic dog and new friends in another country :-)

Since I bought Kim (my first GSD pup) I have bought from people I know (until this Jive & the latest) and trust, so have got exactly what I was expecting... now I have two new friends (and more) from buying from a reputable breeder in Germany. 

> You should be able to go to the small claims court - BUT you'll only get the difference between non reg value and reg value :-( 

In this case where the dog is a pet I can see that this might not matter too much, but what if you buy a dog planning to show, breed etc. Surely the missing KC docs have a much bigger impact than just a price difference. Do courts take this into account too?

> I really wanted the papers in case i decided to breed from her in future as i wanted to do it all properly and because she has 20 champions in her bloodline i think she is a really good example of the breed etc

Paper work aside, have you had breed experts / working gundog experts confirm she is a really good example.

Also, i assume that by knowing she has 20 champions in her bloodline, you have a copy of her pedigree? Could be worth contacting the stud dog owner for a little help ?

No - pups are sold without any certainties of being show champions, small claims courts are there to settle very basic (monetary) issues.... there is a lot more involved in buying dogs, but they don't take this into account... just monetary value of the pup at the age you buy it.

I think perhaps the "first time breeder" owned both the dam & sire - I may be wrong but the OP was shown both their KC registration documents.  I have to say that in a numerically strong breed this alone would raise a red flag for me.

When you say you were shown the dam and sires KC papers. Were you shown the dogs pedigree or the official KC pedigree as the KC pedigree has the owners name and address on it.

Do you know if they are members of any breed club? If so it may be worth going on the website and scrolling down and seeing if you can find a surname to coincide with the phone number and area you have.

Have you tried just putting the phone number in google and seeing if anything comes up under that number, at least if you get the surname you can check with the KC if a litter has indeed been registered.

Trading standards I'm afraid if none of the above confirm a KC registered litter as it is faulse advertising.

Thanks all, i have tried looking for the breeder via google etc and nothing come up. Someone else comes up who breed labs in the same area but its not them. I think ive probably been conned to be honest. I guess i did go into it all a bit blind not knowing alot about KC but wanted to learn alot about it in the future if i did want to breed. One good thing about it all is that they didnt charge me more for her being KC, i paid £350 for her. The ad is still on Preloved, here you go...

Do you think i should contact them again? Any suggestions what i should ask them this time?

I would have read that advert and run a mile !!!

Do you mean re the spelling? That didnt put me off as i know some people have problems spelling etc. What has put you off?

The fact that he can't spell - you can always use Spellcheck or a dictionary, or get someone to check it for you.
The fact that they are so cheap.
And finally, and most importantly, because there is no mention of health testing.

You could return the pup for a refund, or contact Trading Standards if you are keeping it.

Next time, please contact the Breed Club for a list of reputable breeders.
I assume you will keep pup, so I hope you have many years of fun together. X

> and because i dont know the owners' surnames

Michelle - the owners/breeders full name is in the advert and a quick google gives you his name, telephone number and email address...

> What has put you off?

"Grab them while you can" no mention of health tests in a breed which suffers from eye and joint problems and £250 for a male puppy!!
What did they feed them on for goodness sake? I suspect this is the knock down price and would have started higher.
Poor picture of pups in a cage ..honestly...i would have run a mile.

omg i have been so stupid havnt i. Of course i am keeping her, im not gonna give her back if they are dishonest people. Ive microchipped her and vaccinated her which is alot more than they would ever think of doing. Cant believe how stupid ive been. Thanks for opening my eyes. At what age do i get her health tested and hip scored?

dogs a babe do you have the link where you found all that info?x

You registered on this site in 2005 and have made almost 900 posts.  There are so many threads on here about how to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder ......

What has put you off?
I also wouldn't have gone near this litter because
1. there is no mention of health testing.
2. if you had any ideas about breeding, the sire and dam are from working backgrounds and so pups possibly more active than show labs and so not easy to home unless you're involved in the working world.  You haven't mentioned that you're interested in working - only breeding.
3.  "Grab them wile you can" is not something that a caring responsible breeder would write - only a backyard breeder keen to make their money.
4.  They're far too cheap for a half decent healthy puppy.

and because i dont know the owners' surnames
the breeder's name and general address is on the link that you posted!!

What does it matter when i registered and how many posts ive made? Ive not been on here in a long while and now i have a new dog i wanted advice, not a slating. Ive admitted my mistakes, i dont need shaming thanks!

Because people usually come here to learn..... :(

A matter of opinion. And now i have learned by posting this. I have 3 children and 2 dogs, i cant spend hours on here reading through every post im afraid.

Brunodog - the advert unequivocally says the pups are KC Reg. Go to your Trading Standards (the one where the pups' breeder lives). They should be able to sort things out for you. At the very least, it might stop these people doing it again.

Thanks Anwen x

> dogs a babe do you have the link where you found all that info?x

If you look at the link you gave: his name is on the right hand side with his location.  Then Google his name, location and add 'black labrador'.  The first Google result gives you his email address and telephone number.

I expect with that info you could find out a bit more via online searches but it ought to give you what you need for the KC.  Do you have parents full names on the pedigree you were given?  You can find health tests, if there are any, via the KC site too and someone with a Breed Record Supplement would also be able to check if the litter was registered.  What was the pups date of birth?

Print off a copy of the advert NOW before it disappears, as your proof to take to Trading Standards.

I only knew the dam and sires first names, it was my husband that looked at their kc papers. Their date of birth is 13.11.11. Thanks i will go investigate x

Already done it St Domingo!

I've just done another quick search and an advert that was placed BEFORE the pups were due says that the dam was 1 yr old and the sire was 2 yrs old.

You might need to double check the dams age on your paperwork - if she was under 1yr old at the time of mating then the KC will refuse to register the puppies

Have googled it myself ........

Another advert for the litter - mentions no health tests, no show or FTCH accolades, pups not KC/insured,  Dam is 1 (!) and Sire 2.

Couldn't be a lot worse really!

You should be painting your kitchen DAB! :-)

According to this link they are not (if this is the same litter) not KC reg
http://www.puppyplanet.co.uk/AdvertDetail.asp?AdvertId=26481

I am having the same problem with a breeder.im going to see a solicitor because i believe the pup i have been sold isnt a pedigree at all.i would go and seek legal advice because these breeders need to be stopped and the only way that will happen is if they are reported.Hope you get it all sorted out x

Yes thats them. Mother Amber and Father Major. Oh dear :(

> You should be painting your kitchen DAB!

We've put it off til tomorrow - apparently it was FAR more important to insulate the loft today.  Who knew?!

The rollers and paint are all lined up and waiting though...  I may be the girl at the show on Saturday with dog, and self, covered in paint flecks :)

Its very sad how Back yard breeders are still making money from puppies just because people dont do there research. And research should always start at the breed club. Looks like this is yet another litter of puppies born just to make money. Report the add to prloved and the KC and get your puppy nutered when hes grown up. and give him the best life he could ever have.  thats all you can do to be honest.

sorry you've been caught out it seems there are more and more scammers around these days.

You have a lovely puppy and you've paid a fair price (although obviously they have lied so you're not getting the deal you thought you were).

I would contact trading standards and then make sure this didn't happen to me or others again, these people are only hurt when hit in the pocket.  You trusted the name of the kennel club and yes you were blinkered but hindsight is a wonderful thing. If even one person you tell about this changes the way they search for a puppy then at least you can help others.

I do also think one of the things people don't think about is that lots of the best breeders don't advertise - they don't need to so how will Joe Public learn about them? Yes we all know them and word of mouth is great but it doesn't help those on the outside who search websites and find gumtree, preloved, friday ad etc.

I am a responsible dog owner, exhibitor and breeder however I have found myself stuck when looking for a kitten and have found myself on one of these websites luckily I regained my senses and closed the page but it made it so simple - i could pictures, details and call all at once..... What I'm saying is its too easy and sometimes responsible breeders take a lot longer to find (you can't call the breed club secretary at 10pm when you fancy looking up breeders).

I am no expert on Labs but even I would have been suspicious at the price of these pups. You pay peanuts etc....