Just seen via FB that both the peke and the bulldog BOB failed the vet test so will not be in the group.

That is interesting are the dogs only get checked after a certain stage ?

When they have won BOB I think

Doesn't say the Bulldog wasn't awarded BOB on the results so not sure about that.

I wonder if this will make the vet check an issue to be done earlier looking at more dogs ? I hope so as if the bet checks are done properly then it can only be a good thing ?

@waggaman on fosse it says no BOB awarded in Bulldogs, but Pekes are still showing Limit bitch. However the info re them being arwarded Bob comes from the Dog Papers online via FB

Doesn't say the Bulldog wasn't awarded BOB on the results so not sure about that.

Where are the results online now?

thanks

What hasn't been made clear is if the BOB fails the Vet check, is that it as regards showing, will it loose it's CC, and thus will the Res CC winner be upgraded without a vet check???

Results http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/default.asp

Yes, and shouldn't the RBOB now be whisked off for a vet check instead? I don't think they've entirely thought the process through....

I can see another big hole being dug! :(

Well the live Group commentary confims no bulldog went through.

> Yes, and shouldn't the RBOB now be whisked off for a vet check instead

yes, surely they should work their way through all the bull dogs until they find one that is healthy....

What I don't understand is that do judges have an understanding of the checks a vet will make as surely it should be quite obvious to somebody examining a dog so closely they should have known ?

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4199/23/5/3

Mmm.. if they DON'T then they haven't been paying attention I would think. I thought judges had to go to seminars/training courses, following the Fit for Life stuff after the first PDE programme kicked things off..

Dog world on FB reporting that no bulldog ..(.CH  Mellowmood One in a Million) represented the breed.
DW reported that the peke put forward by Bert Easdon (who owned the winning peke at Crufts that allegedly was operated on) Palacegarden Bianca  failed the vet test too. So no representative  going through for them .Takes a lot of working out as end of the day but the reserve cannot go forward instead as beaten ...so they are using the unbeaten dog rule .

And do they get stripped of the CC as well?

Don't think so . One in a million has 20CC  (someone on DW comments has said )

Really hoping that the reason why these 2 breed failed the vet check is made public, we should all be made aware of this.. Also as I said on FB all breeds should be checked, think of the Akita who was a top winning dog who had their awards stripped after it came to light of the operation it had..

there may be two fuming owners who make sure it's known publicly ......

Why shouldn't it be published? Being Crufts as it is then it should as do, any awards from any other dog which are stripped go into the kennel gazette so published and these dogs should be no different!!

This will be a hot potato won't it! If the dogs have been withheld due to muzzle/noses too short then how does judge and vet ensure they gauge to the same standard... is the clinical standard different to the breed standard??

Not breeds I'm au fait with but I'm guessing the standard wording is open to interpretation... so how do you police this, fairly if so???


( I am glad to see enforcement of health failings... but want to see it done fairly)

Well just watched Claire B interviewing Steve D.    Mmmm he implied the judges need "re-educating...well YES!  Is not this the reason many breeds, not just the 15 high profile ones are in such a sorry state.  Re- educating, they are NOT educated in the first place, all you need are friends to pass you to judge.  Bring in written exams on each breed they judge.   I think the KC has shot itself in the foot this time.

So are the dogs vet checked after breed judging is completed?
I,ve missed  reading all this somewhere and is it going to be done at all champ shows on every best of breed?

Will be watching the Mastino with interest then on Sat......

> So are the dogs vet checked after breed judging is completed?
>

Yes, only the oen the judge has put up for BOB.

> is it going to be done at all champ shows on every best of breed?

All champ shows, but only on the 15 high profile breeds.

Personally I think it should be all breeds to make it fair.

Ceertainly the judge should get a £50 fine, as they do for other errors.

Some of the Neo's cause me some concern.. Haven't there been some withholdings in this breed of late?

on the flipside how devastating if your the owner and you thought your dog was healthy and to have this happen too you :-(

>

on the flipside how devastating if your the owner and you thought your dog was healthy and to have this happen too you

Big winners with owners who know the score!

As for health testing every dog before judging.....no possible, it takes ages having your passes taken let alone a queue for several thousands of dogs being vetted!

>on the flipside how devastating if your the owner and you thought your dog was healthy and to have this happen too you

Big winners with owners who know the score!

As for health testing every dog before judging.....no possible, it takes ages having your passes taken let alone a queue for several thousands of dogs being vetted!

Can you imagine with the huge breed classes like the Coliies!! sadly just not time in a day for all...

I guess so, it just seems so undignified that a dog gets singled out when perhaps most of the breed should be tested too. i also feel that maybe this should of been tried out at a normal champ show first and all the creases ironed out.

whats the point of only the bob being vet checked? if he didnt make it through, what about the rest of that breed?
its as if they are disqualifying those breeds for ever

They havent got time to vet them all so they are checking that the judges ultimate choice for best of that Breed ...is healthy.
So its a check on the judge if nothing else.

Are the vets doing the checks named anywhere?

I was under the impression Prof Steve Dean was choosing a team (of 5 or 6?) but I've lost track since then.. they must have been subsequently named when chosen?

but surely if the dog the judge considers to be the best is then declared not" fit for function" it puts the rest of the entry in an even worse light.
I wold hate to be the owner of the dog that is reserve best will they now become BOB if the original winner fails the vet check?
Will be very interested to see what happens with my breed.

> Prof Steve Dean

I'd just like to point out to those that don't 'know' him
He's a good guy!

reserve best will they now become BOB if the original winner fails the vet check?

No, they remain reserve, with no BOB being awarded.  It's the judge presumably who should have made a different choice :-( 

> I'd just like to point out to those that don't 'know' him
> He's a good guy!

Hadn't heard of him until he was interviewed by bald clairing (sorry, lol) umm Claire Balding - on TV tonight, but thought he came across very well and couldn't fault his attitude or anything he said.

> it puts the rest of the entry in an even worse light.

For me it puts that particular dog in a bad light and also the judge, who knows the judges reasoning for thinking that is better than the rest.. I've seen many a dubious result in breed judging, clearly lame dogs being put up... Sooo..

> interviewed by bald clairing (sorry, lol) umm Claire Balding

(((( :-D )))))

* Off to change the Tena now! *

going around from people who know that the bulldog failed on an old eye injury shown up when the vet shone light in eye so not hereditary  !!!! If true then a minefield me thinks

> and thus will the Res CC winner be upgraded without a vet check???

see i thought this would be the case, that should the dog fail the vet check the next one takes the ticket?

I really approve of the vet checks taking place, but I think it should be for all of the breed. It would slow things up considerably I suppose, but it's not really going to make a difference if the reserve best of breed (who will probably be at least considered for breeding) is unhealthy and yet this is not taken notice of because they are not BOB

I guess if this is applied at each CH Show the RBOB will be picked up at a later show when they make it to BOB :-)
I can see that testing before judging would be preferable but also impossible! They'd need an army of vets and 2 days: 1 for the checks and one for the judging! Hopefully within a few years of this system, breeders will adapt to the checks and make sure their dogs is free of exagerations and in tiptop condition on the day, I do agree though that maybe all breeds should be health checked (not just the 15). JMHO

> going around from people who know that the bulldog failed on an old eye injury shown up when the vet shone light in eye so not hereditary  !!!! If true then a minefield me thinks

if that is the case it's hardly fair to stop it competing in group if it is injury based, essentially thats the same as when a dog loses it's tooth...are people going to need to take evidence from their vet of any potential accidental damage?

Regarding reflecting badly on remaining entry, it doesn't it reflects badly on the judge not putting up the best in health and breed type.

If it's true the BOB Bulldog was put down for an old eye injury, then that is going too far, not a congenital issue or affecting it's welfare on the day.

Many of us show our oldies whose eyes may show some clouding by 10 or more years, if lucky enough to go BOB would they be penalised for signs of age???

A friend showed a bitch a few years ago who sustained and eye injury causing a cataract, would she have been penalised if she won?

I don't think it would be beyond logistics to check each BOB of every breed, and would keep judges on their toes.

> would be preferable but also impossible!

oh yeah, as you say an army of vets would be required :)

It might be worth checking all of the winning dogs though, so that breeders/exhibitors focus on health in order to win.

> oh yeah, as you say an army of vets would be required :-)

A (small) army is always in force at any cat show, but checking for signs of illness or disease, as cats are more prone than dogs. However it wouldn't be impossible to instruct vets at cat shows doing the vetting-in, to look for certain features detrimental to welfare - as in this case with dogs.

If it is indeed true that the bulldog was rejected for an eye anomaly (which would not have been on the vet's checklist, and any vet worth their salt would be able to tell it was an injury as opposed to genetic disease) then that is taking things too far. If such things can only be detected by a vet shining a light into the eye, then it is useless thinking a judge can make a fair decision on that criteria. I think we will hear more about that in due course.... the KC is not expecting judges to make veterinary examinations.

> It might be worth checking all of the winning dogs though, so that breeders/exhibitors focus on health in order to win.

Perhaps in future? This is the first time it has been put into place. If these checks are carried out at more Champ shows then we may see the bigger picture - for better or for worse - remains to be seen how this pans out, really.