I know there is a recent similar thread but mine is different so please can anyone advise?
We have an 8 and half month pup of HPR breed. She has been pretty good to house train since we got her at 10 weeks but we are still having overnight accidents at least once a week and the last few days every night.
She is left for up to 5 hours through the day (not every day) with the older dogs and is never a problem though always wants a poo as soon as I let her out. She gets about 30 mins free running in our field in the morning and  lunchtime, then goes out again at tea time and about 9 o clock for a few minutes. She always goes out last thing before we go to bed and always does a poo. In fact she poos for England! She is, on vets advice being fed quite a bit (same as full grown dogs) because she is skinny (no wonder as she poos so much). She gets fed raw including tripe and is in other ways very healthy.
Any advice please? We wondered about putting her back in her cage overnight, she has been out of it a few months now but when she was in only poohed a couple of times.
I have a vets appointment in the next couple of weeks so will ask advice but wondered if anyone else had encountered this and sorted it.
Thanks.

first off I would not be feedig same as adult dogs just because she is skinny. Most HPR are quite lean as pups, you dont want her to have too much weight on. i dont know your breed, but, you cant put weight on if it isnt meant to be on. so i would be cutting down on the food. Also i would be stimulating her more during the day. taking her out for walks rather than just a run around the field. do more mental stimulation with you pup also ess b4 bedtime so she is ready to have a well earned sleep. also look at the times you are feeding your pup. 5.00pm perhaps being last feed and then with her walk later on she may have had a chnce to get empties. Maybe put your pup back into crate for a wek of changing things to break the habbit of during ight poo. I take it her poos are healthy enough?

just wondered,is the poo loose?My raw fed collie is 14months and also skinny,but healthy,but her poos are small and hard,probably goes about 3 times a day. Hopefully someone will be along soon with advice.Perhaps shes having too much food,so producing more poo?I know the temptation to want to feed extra if dogs are skinny!Gwen always gets the lions share!Good luck!

I think we will try cutting her food down but I was feeding her on the vet's advice and she is always so hungry. She is still on 3 meals a day. We will try the crate again too...do you think we should do both things at once or try reducing her food first? Maybe drop her lunchtime meal?
Her poo is fine, always solid. She does eat horse and sheep poo as well which I try to stop but it isn't easy as that's what we have! I think if we drop a meal she will eat more as well. I can take her on the field next door at the moment as it hasn't been cropped but I have limited time to take her elsewhere through the week as we live in an isolated spot and it would mean driving them somewhere. We do try to take them different places at the weekend.
She does get walked, when I said free running I meant she isn't on a lead but I do walk round the fields with them or she just eats more poo!!
My husband usually spends a good half hour before bed doing training with her and she is getting training outside too.
I have 2 GWPs already (pup is a Korthals Griffon) and neither of them were as lean as her, when I say skinny I mean she looks like a rescue at times, she doesn't seem to be really utilising her food, she did put weight on ok but she is small for her breed, just about on the lower limit for height now.
Thanks both for your help, it is appreciated.

Reading between the lines I would think she is being fed too much food of a type her system can't deal with so the excess is going straight through. Put her back on puppy or junior food of good quality and I am pretty sure the problem will stop. When you think about it she is not doing it on purpose to make a mess, she will not produce loads of poo without first taking in the excess amount of the wrong food and when a dog has to go then it has to go she may hold herself when in her cage but at what cost to her stress wise.

Pups grow at different rates and mature at different rates, some are much slimmer than others and only fill out when mature.

PS horse poo seems to do dog stomachs nothing but good. Healthy horses that is.

> She is, on vets advice being fed quite a bit (same as full grown dogs) because she is skinny (no wonder as she poos so much). She gets fed raw including tripe and is in other ways very healthy.
>

Just wanted to point out at this age I would still expect a youngster to be EATING MORE than an adult.  My nearly year old pup is on about 30% more than the adults, but is very active. 

Usually it is only at about 9 months if pups shows signs of plumpness that I start reducing to adult levels.  I have found from about 12 weeks onward they are on more than an adult, and at about 5 months about half as much again as the adults get.

The current cold weather may have something to do with reluctance to hang around outside long enough to empty.  Also many dogs need a walk before they do a poo unless desperate to go.

Next what are the consistency of poos?  This would show how well (or not) she is digesting the food.  How many meals a day is she fed and at what times?

How many hours from last toilet break to letting her out in the morning? Could you crate her at night?

I agree brainless, youngster shold be on miore than adult still growing, but are you feeding pup food rather than adult? Differing recipes for differing ages. Check out another food type altogether and lots of opinions on jusy how skinny is too skinny!! A waist is normal and I like to be able to literally run my hands down the dogs spine and feel them easily right down to hip bones being slightly visible. I have collies that run for England and I like to keep them skinny as they can bust ligaments when turning. But on a Bernese mountain dog I would be seriously worried if the same was true, and each dog is different. I once had someone threaten me with RSPCA for 1 of mine when she was young, she ate but never gained. Youngster thing, she gained after 3 years old.

Back in the crate she's hit a wobbly phase and I never leave mine out of crate until 11 months after second teething phase and some daft toileting phases are finished.

I agree crates are a wonderful training aid but not before the correct feeding is started and she is given a chance to settle, if a dog is pooing for England then too much non digestible food is being eaten, use quality food and feed the correct amount for age and weight there is no need to force feed a puppy and can lead to problems later.

With the volume of output and the puppy being ravenous I would think that the food being fed is not being properly digested and perhaps a look at the quality and type of food needs to occur and find something with higher digestibility.

I have to agree with everyone else here. She is obviously not utilizing the food properly. Have you spoken to her breeder to see what they recommend? The breed may have breed specific digestive problems, or quirks, that they could tell you about.

She is under the watchful eye of my vet who I trust completely. She recommended I took her off Orijen puppy which is what she was being fed and feed her a raw diet which is not a poor diet and surely has to be better than feeding her refined grains which she does not need? She is certainly not force fed and I am getting completely mixed messages, some say too much others say not enough. I have researched and I feel she is on the correct quantity for her expected adult weight and her age now.
The breeder had her on cheap puppy food when we bought her so I will not be going back there for advice, I have however contacted the breed society for advice.
ETA she is not the same breed as the other 2 and will not reach their weight of around 28kg, more likely to be around 20kg at maturity.

I agree that all my dogs at that age have eaten (and needed) larger meals than my adults.

I feed raw, my pup of 7 months is fed the same amount as my adults and he is a different slightly smaller breed (but 20 x more active !!)

My pup  was pooing regularly at the door even after he had been out, I started shutting him away at night so he couldn't access it and it broke the habit and he no longer needs to be shut away.

If you consider she is being fed the correct amount of the correct food then I think perhaps you need to be asking your trusted vet about the amount of waste she is producing because either she is getting more than she can deal with or she is unable to digest what she is given. It could be that your saying she poos for England has mislead us and in fact the quantity she is producing is normal and it just seems a lot, most people feeding raw say that little waste is produced.

Just re-read the first post and you do not say 'poos for England' but you do suggest the amount produced is more than normal which on a raw diet it should not be, see you mention tripe but what else are you feeding.

You are saying she is fed the amount for a grown dog of her size, and as is most peoples experience adolescents generally need more food than the adults of the same breed.

Now the difficulty is guideline amounts.

Most people I know have never fed their dogs what is a guideline amount for most foods.

with my own breed (same size as your pup is expected to be) it is something like half to two thirds what is advised, with youngsters getting proportionately more, but no where near the amount suggested,  but this is a breed trait, they re good doers.  A similar size breed say my friends Border collies get nearly twice what my dogs do to keep a good weight.

So I would contact people experienced with your breed for advice regarding what the average fed the diet you are feeding would be expected to need.

I would still say if the pup is ravenous and thin then it isn't enough.  If the consistency of the output is normal (not soft, but not bullets) then she needs more, overfeeding or food not being digested properly results in voluminous loose stools.

Unfortunately even though I have raw fed, and mixed fed, currently I feed dry complete, and have never reared an adolescent entirely on raw, so can't advise re amounts with my own breed which may not be relevant for you anyway.

You do not seem to approve of the food fed to the puppy by the breeder, but was she a good weight for a puppy when you got her, and were their other dogs in good condition?

You may have a preference for a different feeding method and products, but if you had faith enough in their ability to breed and rear your puppy well then their advise may well be worth having, at least as a guideline to amounts, frequencies, and general stages of development re weight.

I don't know what an HPR is or its adult size? How long after she has been fed during the day does her bowels need emptying? At night whilst asleep all our bodily functions slow down including food travelling through the gut so if this isn't happening for her then there must be a reason, too much food or the wrong type.

Not all complete dog foods are full of grain, as she is still hungry/skinny on the raw diet you are feeding then you need to have a rethink as this may affect her development and impact in later life.

It is much harder to put weight on I have found than getting it off, my youngest male at 3 yrs old is only now starting to keep his weight on, his bowels were normal and only once or twice per day, so I can try showing him again and not be accused of starving him by the judges, I tried all sorts of completes,spoke to various nutritionists at the different brands, raw diet, combination of the 2, checked over at the vets to rule out other causes of his low weight, nothing showed up, I decided he was just one of those who was going to remain under weight. Last summer I changed over to Fish4dogs so don't know if this has helped or if it would have happened any way, all the dogs are free fed with the occassional bone, chicken wing,salmon mousse and salmon oil added through the week.

I would certainly sort the food first, last meal no later than 6pm and if the bowels are still active during the night then try crating for a few weeks to see if it breaks the habit.

HPR's, or Hunt Point Retrievers, are European breeds of gundogs. They include Viszla, Weimeraner, German Pointers (Short haired, longhaired and wirehaired) Munsterlanders, Brittanys, Italian Spinones and a few others. They are all different sizes and colours, depending on their breed type.

I have HPRs, the Large Munsterlander, and have had some that are very skinny and some that have been plump. The lines they come from had a part in their makeup. Even though they were originally from the same ancestory they are still individuals and you just have to work with what you have.

To the OP, in my breed we have some dogs that just cannot eat chicken wings, it goes straight through them. Not every dog can eat the raw diet. They need a good quality dog food. Skinners do a complete fish based food that might suit your dog. I'm afraid it may come down to trial and error in finding the right food that suits.