http://www.dogworld.co.uk/News/03-Rabies

So if (or when) rabies arrives on our shores who can tell me what action is taken?

Are our pets at risk? 
Are we prepared?

I had thought the relaxation in the quarantine rules were a good thing.....but now I'm not so sure?

It's definitely a 'when' not an 'if'. If there's an outbreak apparently all pets in the area will probably be required to be vaccinated (there will certainly be a huge shortage of vaccine) and dogs muzzled when out; there is also likely to be restrictions on movement of animals. Wild animals are likely to be culled within the infected zone.

I hadn't realised it was up to the carrier to check if an animal was being transported legally !, very worrying.

I remember when I was wee the rabies scare in the 70's, I used to be terrified, i still remember the ad with the girl running into a phone box to get away from a strange dog and the posters...chilling.

Oh, Celli, I remember those too!!(showing my age!!) They absolutely terrified me and I would have nightmares but I didn't think it had a lasting effect until I visited an area (in Scotland) with bats and I heard one screeching.  I ran screaming till I was back at the car and left OH with the dogs and 4 kids looking at his loony wife agast! When he eventually got me, I was sweating and chalk white!haha.  Poor little bat!

If there's an outbreak apparently all pets in the area will probably be required to be vaccinated (there will certainly be a huge shortage of vaccine) and dogs muzzled when out

Is it assumed the pet owners will fund this?  Thankfully its not a huge issue for me with only one dog and a reasonable income but how about less affluent owners?  Or larger kennels?

The shortage of vaccine sounds terrifying - what if supplies run out before you or I (as responsible dog owners) get to the vet.....???

Sounds like it could be worrying times ahead?

I'm not sure the relaxation/timing of the passport rules has a lot to do with it, to be honest - it's the enforcement of the rules that would make the difference.

Having brought various dogs in to this country and never once had anyone on British soil look at any paperwork or check we had the right number of dogs in the car, let alone the right dogs, it comes as no surprise that people are cheating it.

M.

>Is it assumed the pet owners will fund this?

Of course. It'll be a case of "your pet, you pay".

Of course rabies isn't the only concern - there are already dogs with leichmaniasis which they contracted abroad and have come home with.

Jeangeanie, Leishmaniasis is transmitted by a mosquito. It's the same that saying that the UK will get Malaria, because someone that got infected in another country, brought it into the UK.

You don't have populations of the mosquito that is host to the parasite (or climatic conditions for it to thrive). Dogs with Leish won't make a difference, since is not spread from dog to dog.

Leishmaniasis can also be spread from dog to human"In many of the endemic areas, dogs are considered the major reservoir for human disease" ; it's rare, but it happens.

More information

Leishmaniasis is only transmitted by infected Mosquitos. The kind they have in Brazil (it's a bit far away for the Mosquitos to migrate, not even to mention the climate), can infect people. Mainly immunosuppressed people (like toxoplasmosis), and it's curable.

It is not contracted by direct infection from dog to dog or dog to person or any other animal. The mosquito is the only vector, and the only way you are going to have it in the UK, is due to climate changes. But then, you will probably also have malaria, and dengue fever, and a few other nasties transmitted by mosquitos.

The good news for leishmaniasis, is that since July 2011 there is a very effective vaccine in the market. And before that there was prevention with collars and spot on treatments.

Regarding the link you posted, you do understand the difference between reservoir and vector?

>you do understand the difference between reservoir and vector?

Of course.

You might not be aware that historically (200 - 300 years ago) malaria was endemic in parts of the UK so there's no reason to suppose climate change won't enable it to regain a foothold.

There is still no cure for the disease in dogs, only treatment.

> You might not be aware that historically (200 - 300 years ago) malaria was endemic in parts of the UK so there's no reason to suppose climate change won't enable it to regain a foothold.

I have heard this too - we do apparently have the right type of mosquito to carry it - Anopheles. We had an outbreak after one of the World Wars (can't remember if it was WW1 or WW2) in Kent I think, when infected servicemen brought it back from malarial areas.

Yes, it was called marsh fever.

see link http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/sep/12/health.weather

Getting back to the original post and the article in Dog World, people have been smuggling animals in from the Continent ever since the Tunnel opened.

It must be at least 15 years ago I saw a card in a shop in London offering Siamese kittens for sale from France. Intrigued, I called up and was told the seller was an international coach driver, and he would bring me over a kitten in a fornight's time, the next time he did a French trip! I asked about Pets Passport, rabies etc, and he said "Oh no, it's perfectly legal now. I just put them in a carrier in the luggage hold and bring them in."

Needless to say I informed the authorities and the RSPCA, and they must have followed it up because about nine months later they called me to ask if I would be interested in a Siamese cat which they had arranged to buy from this man in order to investigate the case - it had now done its 6 months quarantine and was looking for a home.

Makes you wonder how many have slipped through in the same way over the years!

Getting back to the original post and the article in Dog World, people have been smuggling animals in from the Continent ever since the Tunnel opened.

It must be at least 15 years ago I saw a card in a shop in London offering Siamese kittens for sale from France. Intrigued, I called up and was told the seller was an international coach driver, and he would bring me over a kitten in a fornight's time, the next time he did a French trip! I asked about Pets Passport, rabies etc, and he said "Oh no, it's perfectly legal now. I just put them in a carrier in the luggage hold and bring them in."

Needless to say I informed the authorities and the RSPCA, and they must have followed it up because about nine months later they called me to ask if I would be interested in a Siamese cat which they had arranged to buy from this man in order to investigate the case - it had now done its 6 months quarantine and was looking for a home.

Makes you wonder how many have slipped through in the same way over the years!

Thanks MsT.
So is there any real need to be increasingly worried?
Or is this media furore simply down to quarantine kennels who will, I presume, be required to diversify or go bust?

>So is there any real need to be increasingly worried?
>Or is this media furore simply down to quarantine kennels who will, I presume, be required to diversify or go bust?

No, the risk is increased; the typical incubation period for rabies is between one and three months - to allow animals which might have been exposed to 'natural' rabies within that time to enter the country freely means it's only a matter of time before there's a confirmed outbreak.

In the past the smuggled animals were the risk; now there'll be a few smuggled animals (by people who won't wait even 21 days, or aren't aware of the rule change) and legal untested animals as well.

Rabies can only be caught be a bite or infected animal licking an open wound or scratch.  It can't just be caught or transmitted.  Opening the tunnel would have posed the greatest risk but hasn't caused an outbreak so far.  Most dogs have had a shot or at least if they recieve one quickly on being found out, if they do come into contact with it, it can stop them passing through a bite.   As long as a person has been treated for Rabies if bitten by a susspect/unknown do dog they are unlikey to die.  It can be passed on more by wildlife.

If a person is bitten they need to have the painful course of Rabies jabs very quickly.  In counties where Rabies has always been a risk this is what people have to have done if bitten by an animal whose Rabies status is unknown.

In the UK this has not been the case, the most people would do if bitten by a dog is ask for a Tetanus jab.

We think nothing of helping injured wildlife here in the UK as we know there is little risk to us other than getting bitten, this attitude would have to be amended,a nd injured wildlife would simply be put to sleep, and again any in contact would need to seek the unpleasant treatment.

If there was a suspected outbreak we would be seeing wholesale culling (killing) of wildlife, and especially urban foxes etc.

Suddenly the general pet owning population would be faced with having to vaccinate for Rabies, and those found not to be vaccinated would be put down, feral cats,urban wildlife such as foxes would be trapped/poisoned/gassed.

Maybe but if vaccination was needed then i suppose we would have to do it, its already done for PP.  They manage ok in countries where it is, the states have it in pockets. 

I remember being in Canada when young and went to pick up an injured bat of the sidewalk.  I was told not to and why, it didn't frighten me and a call to the annimal shelter was made.  They know what to do when its about.

i wouldn't want it over here but with illeagal shipping (Niave me) and the tunnel open of wildlife to come through, I'm happy for quarentine to be tried differently.  It can always be changed back.  The ones who will suffers is the kennels as they won't be housing them long enough.

>the tunnel open of wildlife to come through

As I understand it, only flying animals (ie bats) can get through the tunnel because (as I was told officially years ago when it first opened) there are electrified barriers to prevent 'foot passengers' getting through.

There is a vaccination against leishmanesis now.  Sadly this disease can be passed by the birth mother to pups too, which is why you would need any dogs being imported being tested beforehand to ensure that they do not have this.

I really don't think there's a massive reason to panic. It's not as if rabies is an airborn virus spreading like wild fire! Like somebody said before you have to be bitten or have your open wound licked by the affected animal to catch it [I would think you're much more likely to get bitten than licked!]. There are lots of countries where rabies is around all the time and we very rarely hear of massive rabies epidemics or armageddon?? Or maybe I've missed the news?
Could it be possible that this is yet again unneccesary scare mongoring, just like so many other things in this country before? What has happened to common sense?? Maybe I'm just too laid back, but I'll deal with this kind of stuf when it actually happens ;)

>There are lots of countries where rabies is around all the time and we very rarely hear of massive rabies epidemics or armageddon?? Or maybe I've missed the news?

Quite possibly.

At least we can be pretty certain that our government won't take the same control measures that the Chinese government did.

My worry would be that our government would react as they did with Foot & Mouth disease - widespread "culling" of dogs, cats, foxes, badgers etc etc and creation of "culled out" bio-security zones around affected areas.  It's not the virulence of the disease or the risk of anyone's being bitten, it's the perception of the danger which would drive the reaction.

Rabies can actually be transmitted by means other than a bite or a lick to an open wound. One example is via the mucous membranes. http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/transmission/index.html Interesting to see what they say on there with regard to 'Risk for pets' too.

Better not get eye to eye with a dog with rabies then..or a badger.. if one practises that kind of thing :)) I think I'll sleep peacefully tonight, of course more people die in their own bed then anywhere else...paaaniiic!!

> Quite possibly.<br />

That's China and we knw how animals can be treated there.  i expect its not high on their list, especially to protecting the people in the shacks away from everything/everyine.  Cnsidering the population in China, the numbers are very low and we wouldn't have news like that over here unless it was a threat like Bird Flu.

I think we're worrying over nothing for now.   I'll panic about going to bed i think.  I've had a few people doing that.

>the numbers are very low and we wouldn't have news like that over here unless it was a threat like Bird Flu.

That's the point; it's never been a threat to us so it doesn't make headline news - you have to look for it in the foreign news section of the broadsheets. We don't read about the endemic foot-and-mouth disease in South America, but as soon as we have an outbreak here (from imported infected meat) then it's a major incident. Now that the potential for rabies infection is becoming much more of a threat to us here it's starting to become more widely publicised.

Goodness, however do people on mainland Europe manage?  They must be living an anxiety-ridden existence, expecting to be bitten by foxes and badgers lying in wait for them on dark nights. 

Not to mention the fact that there is far more native wildlife there than there is in the UK and it seems they haven't seen fit to destroy it all.

Why do we go on holiday there?  I'd much rather stay here in my rabies-free bed.

Many other things to worry about... You'd better all stay away from me though, what with my username and all.

The relaxing of the Pet Passport scheme is amazingly good and stirring up fear about rabies is not amazingly good.

> Goodness, however do people on mainland Europe manage?

Just got on with it as they had no feasable means of quarantine.  Being an Island, we did.

>Goodness, however do people on mainland Europe manage?

I imagine that they do what the authorities in the region of France where my friends live, when there were confirmed cases of canine rabies in 2009; all dogs not vaccinated against rabies were seized and destroyed after two weeks if their owners didn't arrange for them to be vaccinated. Because they live with it they seem to be less sentimental and more sanguine about their losses.

> Goodness, however do people on mainland Europe manage?&nbsp; They must be living an anxiety-ridden existence, expecting to be bitten by foxes and badgers lying in wait for them on dark nights.&nbsp;
>

They ahve the hassle of compulsory Rabies vacciantion, never touch a wild animal, and certainly not encourage them around their homes, and the knowledge if they are bitten by any animal that isn't proven to be Rabies vaccinated they will need immiediate unpleasant treatment.

Stray and feral dogs cats depending on the country will be regulry rounded up and killed if no proof of vacciantion exists.

Do we really want that if we don't need to have it simple for a few peopel to tral more easily or import animals.  I for one with Pet Passported animals do not want to have to have Rabies vaccinations for all my dogs and most have never had more than the one that I needed to accomplish a specdific trip.

I am happy to see the 6 month wait for entry/re-entry scrapped, as I never understood the point seeing as no second titre test was done after the first, but I feel that a blood test to confirm uptake of the vaccine should have stayed, and that as soon as blood test resutl back teh dgo coudl enter/re-enter UK.

> and the knowledge if they are bitten by any animal that isn't proven to be Rabies vaccinated they will need immiediate unpleasant treatment.
>

And the fear that treatment may not be effective.

Having had one of mine fail the titre test after vaccination, it does worry me that they dropped the testing.

I never tried again so I have no way of knowing if she might be one of those where the vaccine won't take at all, or whether it may have taken on re-vaccination.  She is five now and I have no plans to take her abroad.

> Having had one fo mine fail the titre test after vaccination, it does worry me that they dropped the testing.

Indeed but I was referring to the treatment given to a human following possible contamination. 
People should not be complacent because they believe that treatment will always be given and that it will effective.  
There are so many factors that have to be met ie that the person or health professional realises there is a risk of contamination and gives the treatment in a timely fashion.

So should we vaccinate our dogs in advance of the threat and potential shortage of vaccine when it does arrive ?

There's no immediate rush, but I'm seriously considering it.

Surrey constabulary archives describe how the situation was dealt with in 1969.

"1969, October: Outbreak of rabies in Camberley resulting in restriction orders for dogs. Large-scale shoots were organised to carry out the destruction of foxes and other wildlife that might pose a threat. Fortunately the rabies outbreak was short-lived.

Cliff Blackford: I was duty sergeant at Camberley when the report came through and I was immediately told to go to the local cinema and inform everyone about the problem. The film was stopped and I went onto the stage with a microphone and warned people that if their pets were found wandering and not on a lead they were liable to be destroyed.

Alan Bridgeman: October 1969 saw the outbreak of a rabies scare at Camberley. We had received alarming instruction at Training Centre as to the potential effects of rabies; apparently it might drive everyone as daft as our PTC instructor - a chilling thought. I was driven to Camberley, and served notices on form A2 to infected houses.

How we worked out which houses were infected I do not know, but was still green enough to believe that our senior officers were in touch with the Almighty, and would know everything. I did grow out of that belief fairly quickly!

I think it was the following day, a sweep was organised across Barossa Common, which adjoins Old Dean Estate, by a number of shooters, organised by the local council and assisted by members of the police to destroy all wildlife found, which was mainly foxes and squirrels.

I, complete with radio, and two other officers were stationed on a high point to make sure that the line of about thirty to forty people kept reasonable straight. Also we had to make sure that members of the public were kept off the common. I can't remember how long it went on for but a number of wildlife were shot and as we found out later, completely unnecessary as the dog in question was found not to have rabies after all."

However the policeman was wrong; the dog did have rabies.

I have recently brought in a puppy from abroad, along with another one for someone else...their pet passports were checked in Calais (ferry), but nobody actually looked in the car to see if there were just two dogs...they handed us the microchip reader to read the numbers,...but we could have had extra dogs in the car that had no passports, they would have been none the wiser....when we got to Dover, nobody checked anything...

The pet checks are supposed to be done on the Frech side, I too was handed a scanner and had to get into Inka's crate to scan her, so could in theory have had other dogs in there.

Just thought I'd mention, all the staff and volunteers at Secret World wildlife hospital are vaccinated against rabies.

> all the staff and volunteers at Secret World wildlife hospital are vaccinated against rabies.

They probably handle bats on occasion.  I believe vaccination against rabies has been standard for people in that position long before the change in quarantine rules.

> They probably handle bats on occasion.&nbsp; I believe vaccination against rabies has been standard for people in that position long before the change in quarantine rules.

I'm not sure the vaccine actually protects against bat rabies.
My doctor insisted I had a rabies vacc when I went to Thailand to study cats the first time - the second time I didn't bother as the risk was so low.

> I'm not sure the vaccine actually protects against bat rabies.
>

It seems to be ambiguous but recommended nevertheless.
http://www.surreybats.org.uk/Rabies%20Vaccine%20FAQ.pdf

My bitches are already done.

i don't think its any different being protected against Hepatitis threats.  I had to have that to work in the health service whether I wanted it or not.  precautions always better than cure.

I would think if there was a possible threat to go through the vaccine programme no matter how bad it is for survival. 

Yes but if we keep Britain Rabies free we and our animals won't need treatment or vaccination, which would as is now only be used for those who required/wanted it.

> i don't think its any different being protected against Hepatitis threats.&nbsp; I had to have that to work in the health service whether I wanted it or not.

Indeed because we are at particular risk but in this instance the risk exists for the entire population, including of course those whose health does not permit such precautions.

Here in Spain dogs have to be vaccinated yearly for rabies and you are given a different coloured disc to go on the dogs collar each year.  Last year when I was bitten by a dog the first thing the Spanish doctor asked was  if the dog was under a vet because it would have had the rabies jab so luckily all I had to have was the wound cleaned and a tetanus.
Also for earlier posts many dogs here have Leishmaniasis, where people have not bothered with the scalibor collars or the dogs are strays, and have not yet heard of a person contracting it from a dog.