Had a puppy for 3 days. After paying for him, the breeder said she couldn't find one testicles, but could feel the other. Just been to the vet and he said he couldn't feel any testicles. What should I do? I know that the puppy will need an op if the testicles don't descend - and most advice seems to be that they should be present by now. How big an op is it to find 2 testicles?

I doubt the op will be to find the testicles, it will probably to take them away.  Un-decended testicles can cause cancer and are better removed.  But....I'm assuming since you've just got your pup that he'll be about 8 weeks old? In which case, I don't think I would be panicing quite yet!  I think it's if they haven't both desended by maturing that you need to get them out. 

My lurcher pup still had an undescended testicle when we bought him home, the vet said not to worry about it until after they are 6-9 months old.  In fact it didnt descend until he was one week short of being 6 months old. So really dont worry about it yet.

For several weeks the testes can move up and down till the gap which they pass through closes, the vet should be able to feel them in the abdomen. The temp the pup is in can also cause them to go up and down.

Our first dachsie back in the 70's only had one teste in the scrotum when we got him at 4months old, the young vet told us he would need an op similar to a spay to locate and remove the missing one, when we took him in for the surgery the more mature vet said he couldn't feel it so there was no need for surgery, he was 13 yrs old when he died due to old age nothing connected with only having one teste all his life.

A breeder in the US kept back a male pup to show and breed from and when he got to 5 months old he only had one teste so she sold him as a pet, whilst bathing him prior to him going to his new home she found both were in the scrotum, she went ahead with the sale as she didn't want to disappoint the family, she kept the option to use him as a stud if he continued to mature nicely which he has, in future she will wait longer before giving up on another male.

So no need for you to worry at this age and the vet should have told you the same instead of touting for business.

absouloutly Rhodach. 8 weeks is far to young to really be worrying and as Rodach says they move up and down for a while and can be devils to find. No rush yet I had my gsd neutered at 10months because undescended testicle that was eventually found in the abdomen. I know whis Ihad left it longer and allowed him to mature more. Yes I would still have had them out due to the undescended one and the slight risk of
cancer but certainly relax now and enjoy you pup. oh well too late but you learn as you go along
Is someone can find it there is a link on here to data on health risks on neutering which gives some very interesting data

I had a male pup booked to go to Norway last year and had to let the person down because he still only had one by 12 weeks.I let him go as a pet and was at pains to let the new owner that he had only one but I was very confident the other would follow soon.
The day she picked him up (14 weeks) I went over everything with her and showed her the missing testicle...only it want missing any more.

All present and correct.

No testicles down is fairly uncommon so I think its only a matter of time for your pup.

I waited until my dog was nearly 16 months old before giving up and scheduling him for surgery. My then vet was very keen to castrate him but I insisted that only the retained testicle was removed.

I forgot to say that the testes start off in early development up by the kidneys, one placed higher than the other which is probably why there is more incidents of one undescended than none because one has further to travel before the gap closes.

When I had my first male pup born here I was eager to find his testes had come down, I was amazed at how tiny they were, about the size of an apple pip, presumably that varies depending on breed size, now both my males are very well endowed which my Mum has commented on more than once, till her present bitch we only had males, cockers or the afore mentioned dachsie with only one so I presume she was using them as a comparison.

Only thing I would say is don't keep poking for them, forget about it and have another look when the pup is 12months. Plenty of time then to have the retained one removed if it still has not appeared.

>and most advice seems to be that they should be present by now.

I really wouldn't give that advice with my breed.  It wouldn't worry me if they weren't down by 3 months.  I forget about them, and usually only remember them when I feel them by accident!

I do reckon that too much messing around to check they have 2, is the cause of finding none?  They tend to hold them up inside if you keep feeling for them.

> I forget about them, and usually only remember them when I feel them by accident!

I'm so sorry but this made me smile, and bought two things to mind.  Apologies in advance this is soo not the place for this BUT here goes:  1) my mother in law finds my boys 'tentacles' (don't ask!!) rather rude so often tucks a blanket, or moves a cushion to avoid noticing them.  Possibly much like I dump parsley on fish heads if I eat a whole one - I just don't want to look at it whilst eating.  2) We once saw a GSP in Cornwall (I suspect geography not really relevant) and someone had drawn a smiley face on one of his testes.  I couldn't bring myself to ask the owner if he knew about it as he just didn't seem the type

So sorry for off topic but sometimes these things just float to the front of ones brain oops!!

> 2) We once saw a GSP in Cornwall (I suspect geography not really relevant) and someone had drawn a smiley face on one of his testes.  I couldn't bring myself to ask the owner if he knew about it as he just didn't seem the type
>
>

Just as well all ours are girls as that really tickled OH and I could see him looking at the indelible markers.

>So sorry for off topic but sometimes these things just float to the front of ones brain oops!!

I'm afraid that your mother in law could possibly be my mother in disguise.  :-)

Many years ago, I bought mother her first (and only) dog.  A Yorkshire Terrier.  As usual, I took on responsibility for jabs etc.

After a vet check, I advised mum that her boy had been checked by the vet and he was entire.

She looked terribly puzzled, and asked what it meant.  I told her that he had 2 testicles.  She said "There's no necessity for that type of talk Jean"

I know, I know.  I have sworn for donkeys years that I don't belong to her, and she was given the wrong baby in hospital.

LOL Jean! I'm training to be a groomer so me and my mentor tend to talk about testicles like the weather! I don't think I can bath a tiny dog like a Yorkie without shouting 'CWOR, THESE ONES ARE MASSIVE, COME SEE.' to her!

Loved the smiley face too, bahahahaha.

Must admit I checked my boy before he left for his new home (still have the other boy here with me) and he did have both his 'apple pips' down and accountable for. My boy was neutered at a year old, now when I see a male of my breed at a show I regret it deeply, as I do tend to think they complete the picture!

we all must share a mother!  Mine makes my bullmastiff put on my OH's pants because he like to lie on his back on the sofa(with everything on view!).  She says he looks pornographic!lol.  I'm sure he only lies that way when my mothers in. hahaha.

I get a bit obsessed with the boys bits but my last boy had cancer there so that's my excuse.  My recent boy has visited the vets allready about his as I thought one was bigger than the other!  Turns out he was just excited and it was swollen from over-use!

Testicles and poo are two subjects that eventually crop up when talking about dogs :-D  Did you know that Siamese cats tentacles follow the colour of their points I find this fascinating but I'm sad1

> Did you know that Siamese cats tentacles follow the colour of their points I find this fascinating but I'm sad

Many years ago there was a MALE Tortie-point Siamese, who was left entire and shown. He was fertile, but bred as if he were a Red point. He was definitely worth seeing, as he had the remarkable feature of one red testicle and one seal!

thats an  interesting point about siamese yes thionk I must be sad too as I found that interesting. :)
Male tortie thats rare isnt it or is itthat fact that itis his points that are tortie that makes it possible

>>Many years ago there was a MALE Tortie-point Siamese, who was left entire and shown. He was fertile, but bred as if he were a Red point. He was definitely worth seeing, as he had the remarkable feature of one red testicle and one seal!>>

That I would like to have seen :-D

> Male tortie thats rare isnt it or is itthat fact that itis his points that are tortie that makes it possible

Yes, it's the fact that he was Tortie AND male. [Tortie point Siamese females are not at all rare!].  With modern advances in understanding genetics, tortie males are not as rare as once thought as there are a number of genetic and chromosomal anomalies that can cause them - which is also why it was once thought they were all sterile (not all are). However they cannot be bred to order, and are chance occurrences that don't usually repeat.

This article mentions the Tortie point Siamese male I met -
http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism5.htm

I also once met an extremely rare example of mosaicism: another Siamese cat, but this time with seal and BLUE mottled points. (I should add that Merle is not known in cats!). Normally, Seal (being a form of black) and Blue (dilute) cannot appear on the same animal. I obtained his pedigree and sent it off to Roy Robinson who was most interested. I don't know if he contact the owner, he probably did, in order to record the oddity.

interesting thank you

Perhaps it's just as well I haven't got any with testicles at the moment!! *evil snigger and look at the marker pens* But to the OP, I agree not to worry about it at 8 weeks. And don't keep poking around for them, just check occasionally when he is relaxed. My friend once told her about her young dog, one of his early wins, the judge came along the line after going over all the dogs and pretended to check a couple of them again, my friend couldn't see what it was but asked after her dog had won the class, and the judge said he only had one testicle on the table, so she was checking and the other one had reappeared when he was more relaxed standing on the floor!

May I deviate slightly. If after purchasing a pup it is confirmed some months later, that he is cryptorchid and after talking to the breeder & taking advise you leave alone in hope that they will appear which they don't (12 months+). Is it entirely the owners concern or would you expect the breeder to assist towards surgery or at least take some interest other than saying 'it's a pet & you weren't intending to breed'.

I would say that it's luck of the draw. 

I had a Border Collie that had a retained testicle.  I had it removed from the inguinal canal.  However, I wouldn't have asked for any help from the breeder.  I feel that these things "happen" and it's sods law.

I wanted him for obedience, so it wasn't a big deal.

If the dog was purchased as a pet (after all nothing more can be guaranteed at 8 weeks) I don't think the breeder should be held to account or be expected to contribute as after all many people routinely castrate their pets anyway, and there is no actual need to do anything. 

There is an increased Cancer risk wthy the retained one, but certainly no hurry to do anything.

> There is an increased Cancer risk wthy the retained one, but certainly no hurry to do anything.

Neither appeared, they were located deep in his chest. Not an easy decision when to go looking for them as I feel even done at 12 months our dog has remained part puppy, even his bark/howl is different ' his nickname hs the castrato'.

> Neither appeared, they were located deep in his chest.

Surely that is impossible I thought that testes started their life basically where the ovaries are in a bitch and under influence of male hormones became testes and started their journey down the body to end up in the scrotum?????

> under influence of male hormones became testes and started their journey down the body to end up in the scrotum?????

Have just looked up internal anatomy of a dog & from where they were found would have said below the stomach, liver area.

Phew, so you did mean deep in his ABDOMEN, lol ;)

Phew, so you did mean deep in his ABDOMEN, lol ;-)

LOL Brainless, they do say it is where their brains are kept but I don't think that means they start the journey any further up, or perhaps in the case of dogs forward, these day.

> Phew, so you did mean deep in his ABDOMEN, lol

Then LOL it's due to my lack of understanding of dogs anatomy because if the surgeon said they were located deep in his chest I have no reason to doubt him. Perhaps he exaggerated using 'deep' but I well remember being more than surprised they were so far forward .

The only organs in the chest are the heart and lungs; then comes the diaphragm below which is the abdomen which contains all the other internal organs (stomach, liver, intestines etc).

I bought a male pup a couple of years ago with the prospect of him being a show pup, sadly after we drove for 15 hours to get him the breeder told us he had only 1 testicle, because we had drove so far we took him back with us. Sadly it did not come down, 3 months ago he had the op to remove both the testicle and the retained testicle. (He's 2 now).

To the OP, i have had a dog who's 2nd testicle did not descend until he was nearly 6 months!  The only time I would worry about testicles is if it was known in the line for the parents to produce monorchids (I think this is the correct term although I doubt it is spelt correctly!) basically one ball!

As other posters have suggested, don't stress, stop fiddling & wait 'til he's a bit bigger to get someone who is good at finding "tentacles" to have a feel. :-D

they do say it is where their brains are kept
LOL. But oh so true.

Totally agree with maddog on this one. If retained testicles are in the lines of a pup I would be very worried if both were not present at 8 weeks. If no such problem exists I think you can afford to wait a while longer but I personally I would draw the line at 6 months.