I am just curious here, as I don't breed.... but have an interest in genetics including population genetics.

I have read discussions on here previously where it has been said importation of frozen semen from some countries was difficult because of the rules regarding rabies.

Has anyone else wondered if the recent changes to the Pet Passport/importation laws would make it easier to import frozen semen from overseas?  Surely if a titre test is now no longer required, semen from any male dog that has been chipped and rabies vaccinated from puppyhood would now be an option? Which could, and would, potentially open up our gene pools here in the UK.

I have never considered the expense and lower likely chance of success (very low in UK in my breed) was worth the trouble compared to travelling with a bitch to the stud dog for natural service.

I had previously looked at chilled semen, but there is so much red tape and consequently expense with licenses,  handling and storage, not to mention implantation that again travel with the bitch seems better.  Of course this is much easier with small and medium breeds, anything bigger than one needing a 31 inch high crate may find it restricts their travel options (many planes can't take extra large and giant crates).

I contacted DEFRA about this when the changes were anounced but they hadn't made a decision about how the change would affect semen imports then. I will be contacting them some time in the next week or so to find out what they have decided.

THe only changes that the rulings will do for me is that hopefully if and when I can afford it I will go abroad to have my girls mated, don't think I'd want to risk the frozen semen route.

>I contacted DEFRA about this when the changes were anounced

I asked one of our vets about it myself, as she deals a lot with equine semen imports, and I thought that she could possibly give me an answer on canine semen.  No changes had been made when I asked, and what I was told only confirms what Barbara has already posted about.

Viability of frozen semen is so very low. 

> I have never considered the expense and lower likely chance of success (very low in UK in my breed) was worth the trouble compared to travelling with a bitch to the stud dog for natural service.

Just recently I have read about some folks in the USA who deliberately plan dual sired litters. That means, using semen from TWO male dogs at the same time on the same bitch... the puppies are then DNA tested and registered accordingly as to which sire. I am assuming it is done by AI as the logistics of getting a bitch to TWO different sires at the right times on the right days would be difficult, if expansion of the gene pool is what they are after.

At first I thought that was shocking.... but then began to wonder - Reading on here that the rates of conception from frozen semen *can* be low. So if it costs the breeder less to buy in two sets of semen [which might well ensure a larger litter], than to take their bitch to the best stud available (which may be thousands of miles away) and risk a miss, then is that such a revolting idea after all?

It does seem very unnatural....
How far are people prepared to go, though - if geographically challenged? We are in a new era of breeding here in the UK now the law has changed -  previously our quarantine laws made us a segregated enclave, stuck wallowing in our own gene pools until someone could afford to bring in something new.

I don't think that's a lot diffrerent to someone on a large continent where their nearest suitable stud partner might be 2,000 miles away (no health issues or rabies restrictions, just distance and cost to be involved).

I was given this option when I went to the USA, but declined.

On discussion it seems it is most often considered if one stud is older and perhaps not as likely to be fertile (so hedging bets with a younger dog used as well), or one lives a very long way away (AI is done using Fresh chilled semen with much higher chances of success).

In some breeds that routinely have very large litters of around a dozen pups it is seen as a way to get more genetic diversity from each breeding opportunity, thereby reducing the number of litters a bitch has, and still achieve similar results in a breeding program.. 

> In some breeds that routinely have very large litters of around a dozen pups it is seen as a way to get more genetic diversity from each breeding opportunity, thereby reducing the number of litters a bitch has, and still achieve similar results in a breeding program..

That's what I gathered, after my initial dislike. I now see it could be a valuable method to those who have that option - which isn't something we've had in the UK before.

However to me it still seems a bit too much like meddling, and I am content the KC has measures in place to stop AI being over-used (and thereby possibly decreasing likelihood of natural matings taking place).

But thinking beyond that, breeds that do not have KC recognition could do this without censure - what would stop them? and where would it be recorded? I am thinking it may well be an attractive option in the future for some, but without any proper regulation.

Dual sires in the breeds who have large litters may become more common now that the number of litters a bitch is allowed to register has been reduced to 4, a bitch could have 3 dual sired litters and achieve the gene mix of 6 litters.

No good in my breed who only have 3 or 4 pups as I would have to pay 2 stud fees if neither stud was your own. You wouldn't need to do AI as the matings could be on alternate days with special care re hygiene/ infection, I would probably opt for a pre mating antibiotics and the herpes vac to protect the bitch and the pups.

> It does seem very unnatural....

Actually dual sired litters are perfectly normal for dogs. A bitch given the opportunity will quite happily mate with more than one dog. And presumably you would be quite happy to use a different dog on a bitch for a second litter? It is the same principle but compressed into one litter.
The only problem I can see iss that I would want to keep one puppy from each sire so I would end up keeping 2 puppies from each litter

> The only problem I can see iss that I would want to keep one puppy from each sire so I would end up keeping 2 puppies from each litter

Apart from the logisitcs of getting a bitch mated to two different sires there is also the possibility that all pups end up by one dog, but unless worded otherwise in stud contract there would also be two stud fees to pay.

>(AI is done using Fresh chilled semen with much higher chances of success).

That's interesting Barbara.  I have only looked at equine semen under a microscope.  But the fresh chilled semen had much, much more activity than the defrosted frozen semen.  Not just a small difference, it was amazing, and I wouldn't have believed what a huge difference if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

> But the fresh chilled semen had much, much more activity than the defrosted frozen semen. 

Is fresh chilled easily available? I would think with imports it would have to be frozen, surely?

In horses and cattle, it is often a convenience rather than anything else.  I visited an equine stud, for experience (work related) and I did question why the horse wasn't being used, as he wasn't that far away.  I was just told that, in cattle and horses, it was often less likely to introduce any infection into the female if it was done in a clinical way!

Yes, imported equine/cattle semen is frozen. 

> Is fresh chilled easily available? I would think with imports it would have to be frozen, surely?

They call it Fresh Express :)

Logistically it should be no harder to ship semen between countries than between states as is regularly done.

With Progesterone testing it gives you time to liaise with stud dog owners vet get semen shipped on that evenings flight and pick up next day in time to inseminate.  I believe it's good chilled for up to 5 days, they use extenders (milk protein) to feed it.

For example it's an 8 hour flight from New York to Heathrow.  4 hours from Finland etc.  the problem is DEFRA rules complicate things, you need a license, it had to be held at licensed holding etc etc.  At the moment the Donor has to qualify under Pet Passport to enter UK with the titre and waiting requirement.

> At the moment the Donor has to qualify under Pet Passport to enter UK with the titre and waiting requirement.

Thank you - that's what I wanted to know... do you think this will be amended?

> They call it Fresh Express :-)

Sorry but I have to titter...it really does remind me of the Benny Hill milkman song!

>it really does remind me of the Benny Hill milkman song!

And he drove the fastest milk cart in the west!!   :-)