Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
Forum Breeders Help Search Board Index Active Topics Login

Find your perfect puppy at Champdogs
The UK's leading pedigree dog breeder website for over 25 years

Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / My new puppy has issues.
- By Amrelee [gb] Date 18.12.11 05:55 UTC
My sister got me this little guy for Christmas. He's a full bread German pointer and I've had his breed as pets growning up. He's a lot of work but my last pointer died almost 10 years and he is practically identical (in looks) to my old dog.
He was 7 weeks old when I got him and I thought it might of been a bit young. He's got all his injection and been seen by his vet. I have an 8 year old son and at first they got on wonderfully. He's almost 11 weeks now and his behaviour is really bad.
This pup is extremely aggressive and head strong. He will bite you as quick as he would look at you. He's drawn blood on my son 3 times now and it's been so bad my son began to cry ( he never crys, not even as a baby, he's crys about once a year) it's not the distruction he leaves in his wake, that's to be expected. My mother was sitting on my sofa and the pup attacked her. Once he gets started he really aims to hurt. He can't be calmed or soothed he literally goes in to a rage and relentlessly bites and snaps right in to peoples faces. If I try to scold him he barks, growls and snaps. He has no idea how to play and understandably my son is very weary of this little beast.  
Me or my family have never seen a pup like this and we've kept an array of working hunting dogs.
If I'm quite honest I'm a little frightand by this puppy. He's barked and growls right into to my face if I tell him no.
My son and I are hiding in my room right now while the pup is outside my bedroom door going batshit crazy trying to get in at us.

I honestly do know what to do. Ive never had anything like this and I'm worried about when he's fully grown. An aggressive pup is one thing but an aggressive dog is quite another.
- By LindyLou [gb] Date 18.12.11 07:54 UTC
If he is getting so worked up that he is biting he just thinks that you are his play mates, this is how a litter will play together.

Don't take this wrong, but are you overstimulating him? Are you giving him a 'time out' when he starts? I would tell him 'no' and put him somewhere quiet, preferrably out of the room. Once he realises his behaviour means he is on his own he should start to calm down a bit.

You do need to stop him now though, as he will not calm down on his own. It will become a habit and he will carry on doing it and will end up hurting someone badly.
- By PennyGC [gb] Date 18.12.11 08:08 UTC
What are you feeding him?  I had a GSD who behaved very similarly to the sounds of this - I changed her food and she was instantly 'better' she was very sensitive and the puppy food was making her totally out of self control.  Vet advised me to take her back, but then advised about the food and I fed her on tinned tripe and a mixer (not biscuit) and no more problems other than when she 'stole' the cat biscuits.  Nowadays there are better foods with less protein etc in and I'd give this a try.  Everyone told me I was imagining it and it was 'normal' but she didn't seem 'normal' to me.

Once off the puppy food (you could just feed an adult food I imagine) she was fine and was the best dog anyone could ever wish for and had no issues whatsover.
- By freelancerukuk [gb] Date 18.12.11 10:02 UTC Edited 18.12.11 10:05 UTC
A number of things spring to mind-as Linylou said diet is one, the second is whether he could have had a reaction to the vaccinations. In the first place I'd get him back to the vet and explain what is happening. I'd make absolutely sure there is no medical reason for this and I'd also ask if a reaction to vaccinations is possible.

Have you spoken to his breeder and sought their advice? Ask about the behaviour of the dam and sire at this age and if there are any similarities, ask about the diet too. Do you know this breeder well? Have you seen the parents? I'd definitely speak to the breeder and see what they say. You are not new to this breed and you can explain that to them and say you have never had a pup like him, though you have kept many hunting/working breeds before.

It could be that he was taken away from the litter a bit too young.

It is important that the pup does not get feedback at this age that you are scared of him- nor will shouting 'no' at him be of much use. It could be that you have a more driven pup. I would consider methods like having him on a house line and using a combination of timeouts, where you tether him to tie-up stations in the house and walk away and ignore, try then to redirect the bitey behaviour onto a suitable chew  or toy. Praise when calm.

Overall, it sounds as though you are worried and confused and I would encourage you to seek professional help from a qualified behaviourist (perhaps your vet can help?) It is important that you regain your confidence with the pup and have a clear idea of what to do- better for the pup too. Often these headstong 'wild'  pups are the ones that can grow into the best dogs ever. It is important that your bond with him does nor break down at this early stage.

None of us at remote can see what is happening and I am guided by the fact that you are not a novice to hunting dogs or the breed and that you seem to think this goes beyond normal puppy biting behaviour. However, as I am sure you are aware, some puppies can have extremely wild biting behaviour because they have not been taught bite inhibition. It could be that this pup has, for some reason, has not learned this properly in the litter, or that he was not handled much by humans as a pup and has not yet learned to inhibit his bite with humans. If you can get some proper, constructive bite inhibition training in now, then the situation is not irrevocable- google Ian Dunbar "The bite stops here" and a link will come up. Or you can search bite inhibition on this site and that link will come up. Note how Dunbar advises you use timeouts and tie up stations- the idea of the timeout is you walk away and ignore the pup temporarily if he bites you- just as his litter mates would, if he hurts them. The penalty is that the fun and social interaction stops. As you know, more determined pups follow you and carry on biting, that is why you need to tether them, so the ignoring part is effective. It will take a little time, but this technique should work if he is a very driven pup.

Do have the vet check him. Do ask about diet and do speak to breeder, then consider behaviourist- look on APBC site, for someone in your area.

Good luck.
- By tadog [gb] Date 18.12.11 10:10 UTC
are you teaching you pup anything? like sit/down/come/wait?  give him 'mind things' to do. this is a bright breed who is probably needing mental stimulation. is your pup going outside yet, be careful not to over excersise him. although he may still be small enough for you to carry? that way he will be getting mental stimulation seeing all the new experiences. also getting him started at puppy class will help you both. I expect he has come from a litter where he was getting plenty wild/exciting play time, now he has to make his own entertainment...... 
- By Brainless [gb] Date 18.12.11 11:04 UTC
The shark like behaviour is PERFECTLY NORMAL for a puppy, as it does not know any different and that is how puppies play, as play is about learning life skills, cats and dogs are predators so their play consists of learning how to hunt and bring down prey.  Lambs learn how to dodge and escape predators, so skip and jump and run about.

This article http://www.dogstardaily.com/puppy-biting will show you how to phase out this behaviour and help teach the pup bite inhibition. There are lots of good articles on the site where this one came from: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads
- By Nova Date 18.12.11 13:32 UTC
The shark like behaviour is PERFECTLY NORMAL for a puppy

Thing is it is normally tempered in the nest by the litter mates and the dam but it this case the pup left the nest too early so the owners will have to teach the pup just how hard a play bite may be before it becomes unacceptable.
- By Amrelee [gb] Date 18.12.11 13:41 UTC
Thank you everyone for taking the time to comment. I am gonna nip down to the vet tomorrow and change his food. Hes healthy and hes growing very fast. I didn't even think that his food could be a factor(!) in his behavour as I just bought the food the vet asked me to feed him. He doesn't get out much as he doesn't want to walk out in the cold! He took one look at that ground frost and looked up at me with his big brown eyes as if to say- "Go you on and i'll mind the house!" I can let that go for now as he is so young and its winter and my son has the same look on his face as the dog at walk time.
Hes the strangest pup ive ever encountered. He has the aggressive side but already he can be quite loving. We got him his first big proper bone out of the butchers as a treat the other day. My son took it out of the bag and as soon as the pup saw it i swear i thought he was gonna faint! His entre body shook with pure excitement, even his wee knees were knobblying together. After he dragged his new new bone to his bed he sat it down and returned to my son to thank him. He was hopping around licking at my son with pure joy and only after my son gave him a good pet did he dash back to the bone. When hes not doing his physco routine hes adorable. I let my  son fed him as i am trying to foster their bond and he can get quite upset if my sons not with him. I brought my son to school the other morning and when i got home i swear to god the pup gave me a dirty look.
My son has already taught the pup to sit and fetch. I think we may be working on "stay" for quite a while.
I hope that changing his diet sorts his aggression out, because hes a very special pup and even tho its only been around a month hes already well loved and an integrated part of our family.
A family friend suggested i have him "doctored" and that would calm him down. I wont do that under any circumstances and im prepared to put in the work and the training and im not interested in a quick "fix".
We live in Ireland (Belfast) and theres not much on offer here in tearms of training, so ive just started to reading about different methods and my family have always trained their own dogs going back generations and i think my son may have an natural affinity (my dad does) with dogs so i will most deffently be capitalising on that!
Thats so much everyone, I feel so much better after that.
- By Daisy [gb] Date 18.12.11 13:50 UTC
My experience with a very 'agressive' puppy - was that as long as we just calmly put her into 'time out' and ignored her until she calmed down, the phase just lasted a week or two. We did have to pick her up by the scruff (supporting her back end) to avoid the teeth tho' :) :)
- By chaumsong Date 18.12.11 14:08 UTC Edited 18.12.11 14:14 UTC

> relentlessly bites and snaps right in to peoples faces. If I try to scold him he barks, growls and snaps.


Sounds like perfectly normal puppy behaviour to me I'm afraid, easy enough to stop following this link. I wouldn't be expecting any miracle cure with simply changing his food :-)

My last collie pup was a terror, my niece was terrified of her, she was born here so definitely didn't leave her Mum too early. She had the other dogs around supposedly to teach her manners but of course with her puppy licence she merely terrorised us all. I can completely relate to the bit above about the mad snapping in your face - she grew out of it fairly quickly and I managed it by following 'the bite stops here'.

Edited to add, I see Brainless has already linked to it, good advice :-)
- By furriefriends Date 18.12.11 14:20 UTC
have skimmed through these posts but noticed op was going to the vet about changing food. Personally f I would not ask vets advice for diet in these circumstances unless I was very sure that apart from the expensive prescription type diets most vets sell I would want to know that  my vet had really good knowledge of whats available  and a lot of vets dont have that type of knowledge.
if I were changing kibbles  I would look at orijen (grain free) jwb Burns and fish for dogs. i ma sure others will also have advice on this
- By freelancerukuk [gb] Date 18.12.11 14:21 UTC
If Amrelee does all the various checks they can be reassured the pup is, as we think, normal. People forget or may not have experienced a pup that draws blood when play biting. It does not mean the pup is aggressive, just that they have needle sharp baby teeth they have not learned to control. Some pups are a lot more playful and outgoing and want to play the bitey games more too. I do think it is good to get reassurance, since very bitey pups can be tiring and lead owners to think that they have a monster in the making. A bit of reassurance, from someone knowledgeable that can see the pup helps get it all into perspective.
- By LindyLou [gb] Date 18.12.11 14:28 UTC
Totally forgot about the food side of it. :eek: I should have thought about it as I have recently changed my Munsters onto a different food and it has made such a difference to my 20 month old bitch. I keep looking to see if I have the right dog :-) What are you feeding at the moment? You might even find that the vets will charge more than the pet shops/pet supermarket.
- By Celli [gb] Date 18.12.11 14:33 UTC
If your concerned about the pup getting out of control, using a "house line" may be helpful, it's just a very light 6ft leash with no loop on the handle end so it doesn't get caught on stuff. It would allow you to get control of him more safely, obviously he can only wear it under supervision, but it may save you a few nips.
- By Trialist Date 18.12.11 16:51 UTC
If the puppy was obtained from a good breeder, and hasn't been bred by dogs with, well temperaments that should not have been bred from :-) and if he's fit and healthy, then I just wonder ... maybe you've forgotten what it's like to have a bouncy, vigorous, healthy puppy?  :-)

I know it always surprises me and my last one was only 3 years ago!!
- By Jo_Roxy_Jaz [gb] Date 18.12.11 18:10 UTC
A lot of great advice here, and you're certainly not the only one to have thought this about their puppy. I have a doberman pup that trains at my classes and did puppy home visits before he could come to classes. On more than one occasion his 'Mum' has said to me that she thinks he is aggressive and has rung me in tears before.

The time out worked well for him too, and before the problem was curbed Emma had puncture wounds all over her hands and arms. (She struggled with being consistent and this only extended the problem. He is now 18 weeks, a big lad, but much better in this respect. Before she came to classes she really thought she was a bad owner!

With your 'stay' you don't necessarily need to use a stay command, because all a stay is, is an extended sit. If you are reward training you can just start to extend the time of his sit before he gets his reward. Try to work on either duration of his sit or distance at separate times, don't expect him to do a longer sit if you are increasing the distance. And bear in mind distractions, start where there are few distractions and work up to places where there are more. Hope that makes sense! :)
- By G.Rets [gb] Date 18.12.11 18:32 UTC
Why did you buy food that your vet suggested? It would have been better to stick with what the breeder had been feeding him on. The breeder wasn't on commission: the vet is!
- By freelancerukuk [gb] Date 18.12.11 18:40 UTC
I understand your point but in fairness to the OP, we don't know anything about her breeder or her vet- both could dire, average or fabulous.
- By Jo_Roxy_Jaz [gb] Date 18.12.11 19:34 UTC
The other thing I forgot to say was in agreement with those who have said the pup is learning to play, if you watch a pup play with an older dog or another puppy they do bite a lot. We would never be able to stand the amount of biting, my pup often hangs off the ears of her older 'sister'. I would be screaming before she even got that far with her needle teeth.

Oh and my baby lost her first tooth yesterday and I managed to be there at the exact moment so have kept it!!
- By Goldmali Date 18.12.11 21:10 UTC
Thing is it is normally tempered in the nest by the litter mates and the dam but it this case the pup left the nest too early

I would not consider 7 weeks to be too early for a large breed at all -that's when mine go. Mine tend to be "sharks" even though they don't ever leave their mum, and even when I've kept littermates, it's perfectly normal in both my breeds. :)
- By peppe [gb] Date 19.12.11 19:31 UTC
Unfortunately I do not have time to read what others have said so might be repeating others but the best way to find out if it is food take the pup of the food you are feeding and give raw tripe and wholemeal dog biscuit for a week nothing else. If it is the food by the end of the week you will see a dramatic change then you have to feed one that is around 20% in protein with no additives or preservatives. Arden Grange are very good and have a nutritionist that is extremely helpful. She would also send you a bag of food to try. Do you crate the pup? As when the pup goes over the top I would put the puppy in the crate to calm down. The other problem could be the puppy is teething badly I used bongela cool do not use any other. Rub it round the gums when bitting the teeth might be so painful and it can make them go over the top. I had these issue with my first aussie and his main problem was food orientated. The modern food can cause a lot of problem when I used to breed dogs we only feed Tripe Biscuit SA37 and Bonemeal and never had a temperament problem.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 19.12.11 19:47 UTC
Peppe the poster is not UK based, so may not find tripe easy to source and of course the US foods will be different even the ones we get here may have differing recipes and raw ingredients..

At this point with puppy displaying pretty typical puppy behaviour messing with the food (as they have already changed it once) is best avoided for a baby puppy as can cause more harm than god to swap about. 

Trying the management and training techniques is the best way to go, and tweaking diet can be done later if it proves necessary.  By then pup should be in training classes ans it should be apparent if it is beyond the usual.
- By Multitask [gb] Date 19.12.11 21:55 UTC
The OP is UK based, Belfast.  Tripe will be easily sourced either from Pets at Home as prize choice, Jollyes do it too or from greyhound men who sell all over Belfast, tripe, minced chicken and also beef.

There are definitely training classes in Belfast and surrounding areas,  http://www.glandore.org.uk/ have classes in Mallusk & Hollywood, but can recommend other classes for you if these are too far.  http://www.belfastdogtraining.co.uk/ run classes in Braniel area.  Either club will give you details of what's available in Belfast, probably more than you think!  :)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 19.12.11 23:32 UTC
oops brain freeze, don't know why I thought them US based, sorry.
- By mastifflover Date 20.12.11 11:00 UTC

> give raw tripe and wholemeal dog biscuit for a week nothing else


That's the diet Buster was put on the help his growth problems (via the breeder)! He was nearly completley down on his pasterns with his feet turning outwards (as well as crppled from ED :( ). Apart from the apparent physical benefits of the diet, I did notice a slight change in his behaviour (however, his behaviour prior to the food was just that of a bitey pup, not something I thought was unnatural). His energy levels appeared a little more even. It didn't get rid of the mad puppy moments though and he still had a good go at chewing everybody to pieces! (but as I said, he was not on the diet for behavioural reasons)
- By Schip Date 21.12.11 09:29 UTC
My pups are fed raw tripe with buscuits are 11 and 9 wks old half siblings, man you should see them go at it when they're 'playing' its biting, tugging, barking, just plain nasty from the outside.  Meanwhile the older pups mum just watches only getting up when there is 'that' scream that say's hey you hurt me!  She even plays with them in the same way only stopping it when its ott, with me they're calmer and I scream when they bite put a chew in their mouth so they chill on my knee with the chew to exercise their jaws.

I do 5 min's a day show training and thats it don't over train they get bored --- schips bore easily ----- spend a lot of time separated with one in a cage another sleeping hardwork for me but better for the pups.  I've not read anything in OP's post that suggests they are experiencing anything more than normal puppyhood.
- By WolfieStruppi [gb] Date 18.01.12 12:52 UTC
You say your sister got him for you for Christmas. Aside from what you've already posted did you actually know or want him? Puppies take an awful lot of commitment in time and energy and having a pup to train especially this time of year isn't always ideal.
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / My new puppy has issues.

Powered by mwForum 2.29.6 © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill

About Us - Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy