Last week I collected my new puppy, she had her 1st vaccination whilst with the breeder and when I contacted my own vet to arrange her 2nd one they informed me that they use a different brand of vaccine and therefore she would have to start again from scratch....I am not happy to do this as she is a very small toy breed and surely this would be a chemical overload? I rang the breeders vet to enquire if they could send the 2nd vaccination to my vet but as expected they said absolutely not...I have rung around several other vets in my area but none use the vaccine I need...taking puppy back to the breeders vet is not an option as it was a 600 mile round trip...has anyone else had this problem or any suggestions about the best way forward??

Your vets should be able to get the vaccine that was used - one of my adults reacted to the vaccination our vet gave him (we changed vets as we had moved!) and they had to order in the other brand in. I must say this is why I tend not to vaccinate puppies if they're going to leave us before the second vaccination - I leave it to the new owners to do the whole thing OR they stay until they can have the second vaccination :-)

> Your vets should be able to get the vaccine that was used

Can they get a single dose of it though? I had a similar problem and was told I had to buy a large quantity of the vaccine - can't remember how much it was now but it was expensive. I decided to wait for a couple of weeks to give the pup a break before starting the course again. Unfortunately this held up socialisation but having the other dogs here helped and the pup (she is now 8) wasn't affected :-)

It's a real pain Sedona because I know you'll be desperate to get your new baby out. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has started the new course straight after the 1st different jag.

No help, but this is the reason I and many breeders refuse to home a part vaccinated puppy, they either have no vaccinations, if due to be homed before 10 weeks, or if likely to stay longer are fully vaccinated before going to their new homes.

An alternative would be to wait until after the puppy is 12 weeks ols when depending on the vaccine used you only need one vaccination with a live vaccine to establish immunity, so you may need to read the data sheets and copy these off to show the vet that only one jab is needed.

http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/pdf/vaccines_VMDpositionpaper.pdf

When I discussed this with my vet s they said that it actually doesn't matter if the two injections are of a different brand. they won't interact a pup just needs another vaccination and a different brand can be used and will still give immunity. Unfortunately a lot of vets do seem to want to start the course again. Whether this is down to not being informed by the vaccination companies or a desire to make money from an extra vaccination I don't know. It is one of their money makers.
They nseem to do the same by forcing people to have two jabs when a booster has been missed when only one is neccessary. I think there are a lot of vets out there using vaccinations incorrectly to supplement their income

Could you wait till the puppy is 12 weeks then titre test to see if the first vaccination has taken anyway? It might be worth discussing titre testing with your vet.

My vet (well it was the receptionist) said the same thing about it not mattering that the vaccines were a different brand, but then went on to say that they weren't prepared to do it as they would not accept any responsibility should there be any problems. The puppy is now 15 weeks old, she had her 1st jab at 14 weeks so I didn't want to collect her after the 2nd jab as she would be almost 18 weeks old by then and I was concerned that she would be staying with her litter mates for too long and would take longer to settle with us.

>When I discussed this with my vet s they said that it actually doesn't matter if the two injections are of a different brand.

I don't understand why a vet is saying this.  There are two producers of vaccines, and the testing regime is different for both.

>....I am not happy to do this as she is a very small toy breed and surely this would be a chemical overload

I agree with chaumsong.  I had a Yorksire Terrier pup that had had her first vaccine when I collected her.  My vet used the other brand, and I had to wait a while before he would restart the vaccines. 

Unfortunately my advice would be to grit your teeth and accept that your little pup will start another session of jabs.  I too don't like the thought of chemical overload, but my little girl was just fine.

I don't vaccinate pups leaving at 8 weeks, and find some people, wanting a pet, say that their vet has said they MUST have a pup vaccinated prior to collecting it.  In which case, they wait a lot longer for a pup, as I won't let a pup go with just the first jab.  Just because of the little Yorkie girl!

It absolutely DOES matter mixing vaccination types. Seriously it does!

As others, a case of waiting & re-starting. Worth mentioning this issue to your breeder, they may not be aware of the problems but does need to be to prevent this happening again with future litters.

My friend had a pup going to a practice 300 miles away at 11 weeks old, so she contacted to find out which vaccine & her own vet ordered 1 of that make so that the course would not be delayed. It may be possible for your vet to get a single dose of what your breeder's vet used, whether willing is another matter. If not, wait!

I think you're right, I will have to wait
At my vets they wanted to give her the 1st jab again right away and that was the bit I didn't agree with, I felt it would be much better to wait or in the meantime see if I could find another vet in my area that did use the Vanguard vaccine. Any idea how long I should wait before starting again?
I have let the breeder know and understandably she is very upset and has also asked her own vet why they couldn't send the 2nd jab onto my vet but they are not prepared to do so.
Apparantly my vet would have to buy a whole box full and again, understandably, is not prepared to do so.

Both myself and the breeder of this puppy have been breeding/showing for many many years yet neither of us has ever come across this problem before! I always vaccinate/microchip at 10 and 12 weeks, so my puppies are then all ready to go.However this breeder, who I must say is one of the most caring and sensible breeders I know, doesn't believe in vaccinating such small toy breed puppies before 14 weeks, she then has the 2nd one at 17 weeks, which makes them 18 weeks old when leaving home, I thought the easiest thing would be to collect her and have the 2nd one done here, with hindsight I now realise I should have left her till she was fully vaccinated, but as I said in an earlier post I was a bit worried about socialisation etc...

They nseem to do the same by forcing people to have two jabs when a booster has been missed when only one is neccessary. I think there are a lot of vets out there using vaccinations incorrectly to supplement their income

The vets local to me do this too :(    I was late getting my second bitch boostered at a year old, we missed it by 3 weeks and the vet told me I'd have to start the whole course again    I decided against it as it seems overkill for missing the booster by just 3 weeks, money making against what is in the interests of the animal

We also prefer to either not vaccinate when the pups leave at 8 weeks or fully vaccinate if they are staying longer.  It's difficult to understand why vets have such a problem ordering in a different brand of vaccine, it isn't as if the owners are ever normally given any choice in which brand the vet will use and I doubt the average pet owner would have an opinion either way.

I am with the majority here,
I don't give my baby puppies any innoculations before leaving me precisely to avoid such a
scenario that you are facing. Unless of course I have any that are here at 10 weeks plus
and then I keep until they have had both innoculations, the only exception would be if they
shared my vets or their own vets used the same brand of vaccination.

I checked this out with my own vets and they are happy with my decision.
Although have had some puppy people that have felt a little unhappy until I ask
them to call their own vets to discuss and then they are much happier.

Don't beat yourself up, it's always a learning curve and we continually learn no matter how long
our experience is. :)

>When I discussed this with my vet s they said that it actually doesn't matter if the two injections are of a different brand. they won't interact a pup just needs another vaccination and a different brand can be used and will still give immunity.

Last time we had first vaccinations done, I asked the puppy buyers to check with their vets .  No-one was given a hard time, and several practices gave a different vaccine for the second shot. Feedback I got was that they were told that modern vaccines are compatible so no need to order in the Vanguard they had here.  No problems ensued.

But, we have now changed our policy because I now think that the 7 - 8 weeks vaccinations we were having done is a bit early and immunity is more likely to be better if you can leave it a bit later.  So we don't sell them part-vaccinated any more.

And I absolutely deplore the idea of subjecting young puppies to a third shot.

It can't be good to vaccinate 3 times so close together!!!

As for the yearly booster being missed - I once had to wait to give one of my bitches her yearly booster as I forgot to do it before she was mated (and I won't booster a pregnat bitch). I was at least 2.5 months late by the time the puppies were weaned and the vet said they couldn't do it and would have to restart the course. I refused, asked for the booster (they just couldn't put a date on her vaccination card as they said it wasn't done as per distributor's instructions) and they gave her her jabs.
To be honest, I'm thinking of stopping the yearly booster for my adults and do titre testing :-) People don't get as much vaccination and I think there might be a link between some of the health problems and over vaccination :-(.

Hope the problem is resolved for your pup. If it was me, I would wait a few weeks before doing the 2 injections again :-)

It is interesting that there are differing views on whether canine vaccines from different manufacturers can be used alternately on a dog.

It is something I've discussed with my own vets and having consulted various "drug" handbooks and datasheets, they can find no advice to confirm that vaccinating a puppy with two different brands i.e. 1st primary inoculation with one brand and the 2nd primary using a different manufacturer's brand is harmful/deleterious/ineffective.

I have stopped giving the 1st Primary vaccination before a puppy leaves me because the number of puppy owners visiting their own vet for the 2nd Primary (where the brand is different) being advised/bamboozled into starting the course again because the vaccine brand used by their vet is different to our vet has increased dramatically.  Previously it was a sporadic occurrence.

Having done a quick search on the internet I did come across an advice leaflet to vets explaining about a potential shortage (in 2009) of the Nobivac Lepto2 vaccine.  The advice to vets in the advisory leaflet confirms that alternative manufacturer's brands could be used (with a warning that they might go out of stock too as there was an overall shortage).  http://www.bsava.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=sRgugJXZPEI%3D&tabid=210

Whilst I realise this leaflet is a discussion on the Lepto vaccination it does appear that Nobivac appear to "recommend" the use of an alternative manufacturer's product to ensure that dogs are protected rather than deny a puppy the protection.   I would therefore presume that the DHP/DHPPi/Pi vaccination is compatible between manufacturers also.

I guess though that each manufacturer and the individual vets involved do not necessarily see it in their own best interests to promote the use of another competitor's brand, far more lucrative perhaps to suggest the course is started afresh.

It would be good to have some sort of official scientific data to confirm that it is acceptable and effective to use different brands on the same dog within a vaccination protocol.  My personal feelings are that it is preferable to use an alternative brand if the 1st used is not available rather than start the course again.

Although as a practice we prefer to do the whole vaccination course ourselves (that way we know for certain it's been done properly) we've never had any adverse reactions from giving a second vaccine of a different brand to the first - there have been no adversre vaccine reactions nor any instances of illness - but then there are very few instances of illness anyway because of the high take-up off vaccination.

>My personal feelings are that it is preferable to use an alternative brand if the 1st used is not available rather than start the course again.

That's the feeling taken within our practice.

Jeangenie,

>that way we know for certain it's been done properly

I'm curious, why would your vets not be sure that the first vaccine had  been done properly?   The vaccine batch no, date etc. are marked on the card given to the pups owners.

When I got Rhuari 7yrs ago his breeder had done one Vac at 8weeks and I got him at 9 weeks, every vet I spoke to locally wanted to start the course over again as they didn't stock the same brand and the cost was nearly £50 so I decided to take him back to the breeders vet 120miles round trip and pay the £12.50 for the second half of the vac course but couldn't have done that with the girls as it was 200miles one way.

When I got my own litters vacs 3yrs ago almost it cost £44 per pup,it included a very thorough examination on both visits, which I didn't get at my old vets, they would have charged in 2 parts but paid it all up front to save time on my second visit as the pup who was going to a breeder was staying till 12 weeks because they had newborn pups and didn't want to risk passing something on to them, didn't bother me and gave me more time with her before she left, more time for the adult dachsies to teach her good manners and the socialisation to continue out and about in my arms.

There should be a standard price throughout the country, when I researched buying in my own vacs they cost less than £5 each, it was going to be too much hassle re customs to do it that way.

> when I researched buying in my own vacs they cost less than £5 each, it was going to be too much hassle re customs to do it that way.

Probably just as well as you would be breaking the law administering it :) 
I don't think I would ever consider buying from abroad anyway as there is massive counterfeit pharmaceutical industry out there on the internet.  At best ineffective and at worse lethal!

>I'm curious, why would your vets not be sure that the first vaccine had  been done properly?   The vaccine batch no, date etc. are marked on the card given to the pups owners.

Not always; sometimes the new owner is given a vaccination card which has no details of the puppy on it! We have no idea whether it refers to the pup in front of us; neither do we know that the pup was well at the time of vaccination.

Thanks for that JG, just proves vets don't always do as they should ;)

Regarding one price across the country for vaccs, I totally agree.   Last time I bought puppy vaccs, almost 4 years ago it was £79 per pup and that was bare minimum vaccs, no KC or Lepto

Not bad for the most economically deprived county in the UK!   It's insulting to hear the actual vaccs cost £5 per shot.

We've got two pups going for their first vaccinations tomorrow and I reckon it's going to come to £60 each for both injections :-( I would not be vaccinating them if I thought they might be going between this 1st vaccination and the second one... I really think the vaccination prices are becoming so expensive!! Detrimental to the dogs as I believe some people might not vaccinate their puppies at all at those prices!!
JMHO

Ok, on the two-vaccine question; does anyone have a link to literature that states that the double vaccine is specifically used to counter maternal antibody interference in pups?

I've got the WSAVA doc saying about adult dogs not needing a double shot if they're overdue and they had a double as a pup; but surely if the sole reason for it is to do with maternal antibodies, there is no circumstance in which an adult dog needs a double shot?

Just musing really - all the vets round here won't give a single booster to an "overdue" adult, whereas I will not let them do it - River is up to date and they wanted to restart her, I simply didn't go for the second booster with my vet and she's now down on their system as up to date.  They never followed it up.  But as some of my gang are 3 years since the last one, I want to get them boostered but I don't want to be paying £10 extra per dog for a restart that I'm not doing.

But I figure some reference material might help persuade them.

Could you widen your search for a vet that carries this vac'.  Register with them for the jabs then its up to you if you go back again.

I saw price being mentioned on some posts.  When we had the pups done it cost £44 with microchip, shronghold ect.  My inlaws had their pup done the other week and another vets, same package £78.  I did try talking them out of going there as i find they can be moneymakers from cat going there and friend using it.  They had their other pets there as well.

> there is no circumstance in which an adult dog needs a double shot?
>
>

That is quite right and I have one of the dog paper vets stating it is tantamount to disgraceful conduct.  I have the article saved so if you let me have your email I will let you have it.

It was Archie Bryden 16th May 2008 edition of Our Dogs.

Yes, that or waiting then starting again are your only options from the sound of it. How tiresome that the breeder's vet won't send the vaccine! I'm going to be in this position, hopefully getting a new puppy a week on Thursday, breeder doesn't usually vaccinate until 4 months, I asked if she could do the jabs but she didn't get the chance, and now we're at the point that if she did the 1st one I'd be stuffed for the 2nd one. Shame as I wanted her done when I picked her up (she's about 11 weeks now) to start socialising and puppy classes, but she seems pretty well grounded so far, happy to come and cuddle with a total stranger, so I've made the 1st appointment for the late afternoon on the day I fetch her. Can't wait to see what my Hetty makes of her, as a singleton she has no idea how to play with other puppies, only her mum, though she's perfectly happy to meet all other dogs in controlled situations. Hoping the new baby will teach her!

Quote from Archie Bryden on vaccination Our dogs article:
I  am  appalled  to  encounter  some  vets who  would  insist  on  a  full  course  of vaccination,  as given  to  puppies, if  an owner was even a month or two over the annual date for  boosting. One  or two in the  study  reported  this  although  I  had heard  about  it  from  other  dog  and  cat owners.  Clearly  financial  gain  is  paramount with such vets. Frankly I consider  this  to  be  professional  malpractice which ought to be reported to the Royal College.

My vet used to say that every other year a full and booster inbetween and like others have said, only a few weeks missed and a full one is needed.  When I got the dogs microchipped, they insted that holly was vaccinated otherwise i couldn't microchip her and she was quite curt about it.  Holly was 11 years so didn't need any more and Poppy she said had to do again, i don't think so as same previous vet as other one.

She said that was ther practice so if i didn't like it i needed to change vets, so i did.

A more recent article by Steve Dean in dog Worls this month: http://www.dogworld.co.uk/Features/49-Dean-(3)?year=2011&month=12

about late boosters:
"One issue that is often miscommunicated is the advice given to some owners who have a dog that has missed a scheduled date for a booster vaccine. Some say they are advised to have a complete new course of vaccines as if they were starting again. This is not at all necessary, for a single vaccine booster will produce an immune reaction in a dog that has previously been vaccinated. Furthermore, even if a mature dog has never been vaccinated, a single vaccine for the core viral components should be satisfactory"

You may need to copy and paste as the whole link has not gone blue/clicky.

Just an update on the dilemma with my puppy, I thought it might be a bit of a long shot but decided to contact Pfizer by email and explained the situation and that I had had no luck trying to locate a vet anywhere in Devon/Cornwall that used Vanguard.
They very kindly sent me details of a vet surgery only 10 miles away from me which uses Vanguard and I now have an appointment on Thursday for puppy to have her 2nd vaccination! WooHoo!!

Well done - full marks for perseverence :-)