So upset yesterday; driving back from getting the puppies eyes tested (all passed, woo hoo!), I get a phone call from the lady having one of the boys. She was due to meet him yesterday at 3pm and put down a deposit, after a WEEK of faffing me about days to come over. She's only an hour away from me, but she made a few excuses and I thought, well, it's a great home, I can make an allowance. I told her three days I could do, all day long, and she chose...the one day I had both the eye tests and the microchipper coming. Sigh, never the less, I fitted her in; and then she rings me up in a very dramatic voice telling me about her receiving some bad news and she needs to have a major operation because of a bladder infection. Well that just about popped it for me; I told her she couldn't have him then. I think she was rather shocked, she probably just wanted some sympathy, so she stuttered at bit and told me she was meeting with the doctor this afternoon, could I wait to hear from her then about it to see how serious the op was? No, I said, I'm sorry but I have to think of Timmy first now, he needs a new home and is 8 weeks in just over a week, so I'm sorry but unless you come and put a deposit down he has to find his new forever home, and I don't think it would be suitable for him to be homed with you if you're about to have a major operation!
She sounded very sober then and said 'Well I bought the crate and all the bits and pieces...' so I told her she could always have a puppy in a few months when recovered, or a pup from us next year if she'd preferred. I managed to end the phone call there as I was completely fuming.
I felt terrible for feeling angry with her; she can't help having an operation. But I do get the feeling she only rang me to get some attention and whinge about it, played the drama card, and then didn't like the result.

As upset as I feel about him losing a home, I do feel she would have been a very fussy owner and calling me about every tiny thing, so perhaps its a blessing in disguise.

What would you have done in my situation? When I heard the words 'major operation' I just thought, no, a major op and a puppy just don't mix. I asked her about recovery times, but she lives alone and is retired. I have another lady who's retired having one of the pups and she would never keep me waiting for days to come over, she lives only about twenty minutes longer away than this lady but she's visited every week since my bitch was confirmed pregnant.

I feel so foolish for not insisting she come and visit or lose the chance of having him as a puppy, that's a whole week wasted where I could have been working hard to find him a home. My first litter, but this is a lesson I will never forget.

Good for you saying no.  solunds like she was attention seeking and didn't any intention of taking the pup.  You called her bluff and burst her her bubble.  Sound like pup had a good escape.

You (and pup) have had a very lucky escape.  This person is known officially as 'the nightmare'.  She would have constantly phoned you with updates, which normally I wouldn't mind, but her's are always 'issues' then at around 8 months she would have had to re-home due to some un-trainable thing.  Been there, got that T-shirt!! Now, look to the future and the perfect forever home you are going to find for him today!
Good luck.

You're probably right!

Is this right? You took a deposit ( with its implied promise) and hadnt actually met the woman?

Well all I can say is YES you are very lucky indeed.

No no! I would never take a deposit off someone I hadn't met!

Oh sorry I thought you said she was stalling to come to your house.

Better off without this potential troublemaker I would think.

She hadn't met him yet, but she said she definately wanted him and could I hold him until she could sort out a day to come round...well that took a week, I rang her every day and texted to find out when she would come, gave her the days she could have all day with him...and she chose the one day I was very tight with time with.

Perhaps we are better off.

I think you're better off - I know it's hard to fit in time to visit, even with only an hour's travel. But having an 8 week old puppy with a major op looming would not be a good idea!

> > with a major op looming

I don't think there was really a major op, I think she was attention seeking and it fell flat x

Good for you, you'd have always worried about him and regretted letting her have him.  You are much better off, although it won't feel like it right now ;)   The right owner WILL come along soon.

I had one like this in my first litter.    Passed the telephone interview fine, had our breed before, wanted to send me a deposit and didn't like it that I wouldn't accept one and said it would be returned.   Would visit when the pups were 6 weeks.    At six weeks no contact, seven weeks I phoned and the answer?  What pup?  Oh yes that one, can you hang on to him as I've just bought another one and haven't got the money   Didn't like it when I  wanted to confirm what she'd told me earlier about her situation and strangely it was all different (I keep notes ) I asked just how many pups she was buying,  and she liked it even less when I said she wasn't having a pup from me, as having not told me about having two together and not having planned the cash as well I had lost trust in her.   An hour later I got a very irate Breed Club Secretary shouting down the phone at me ???   Telling me I couldn't take deposits and then not deliver - except I hadn't, the woman had told a pack of lies, at first I thought they were friends but they weren't.  My suggestion?  If you like the woman so much sell her one of yours (she wouldn't), she's not having mine - ever!

Best thing I ever did, but very upsetting at the time as I'd had to pass on loads of puppy enquiries thinking mine were sold.  But two days later the perfect owner turned up with references etc. 

No, I said, I'm sorry but I have to think of Timmy first now, he needs a new home and is 8 weeks in just over a week, so I'm sorry but unless you come and put a deposit down he has to find his new forever home, and I don't think it would be suitable for him to be homed with you if you're about to have a major operation!

Never ask for a deposit. She could have messed you about for weeks and turned out to be totally unsuitable, and you'd have sat there with the pup and deposit and wouldn't be able to find the pup a better home as you'd accepted money. I want my puppy buyers to be able to back out at any time as it is FAR better they realise they've made a mistake and feel able to back out, than taking a puppy if they have doubts because they feel obliged to do so, having paid a deposit.

If she'd have really wanted the pup things would have been the other way around and rather than you trying to be flexible for her she'd have been desperate to get there as soon as possible! I don't think breeders should ever have to pursue a buyer and you have done the right thing.

I know I commented on fb Beth, but reading the full story here...I dont even believe there was/is an op...seems like she was just a timewaster ... a dreamer, knowing full well she was not going to have him.

Lucky escape.

You have to listen to your gut instinct and I don't think you would have rested easy with the decision if he had gone to live with her. If it were me who lived that sort of distance from you, and you were happy with it, I would have like to visit every week from 4-5 weeks onwards. (I would of course have bought newspapers, cake and not outstayed my welcome lol.) I didn't take a deposit with my recent litter either, better not to be tied into an arrangement you might regret (and vice versa I guess lol).

I'm so glad I did the right thing and that the people I trust most in breeding agree that this lady was attention seeking and a quack! I just feel so foolish for not seeing it sooner; I thought she was just a bit flaky and talked a lot, but the more I think about it, the more I think that she did just want someone to moan at. Whenever she called the first thing she talked about was herself... I'm relieved now, but I did panic yesterday and freak out a little about finding him a home.

I fully agree now about not taking a deposit; I didn't for the other two pups, she was so urgent at first that no one else have him that I told her a deposit would secure him, and then it just kind of stuck.

Thanks for the support guys. I do feel relieved this evening, more so than I did when she would call.

> If you like the woman so much sell her one of yours (she wouldn't), she's not having mine - ever!

Ah, now that sounds familiar!  :-)  How very normal you are.

This deposit issue is a recurring topic on this forum and whenever it' pops up 'I feel compelled to contribute to the discussion. I never ask for deposits and my blood curdles when I read an ad on this otherwise excellent site which states' a deposit secures', more often than not implying that a visit to view mum and pups can be deferred on payment of a deposit or even that a visit is not necessary so long as this deposit is paid . What kind of image of breeders does this convey to the puppy buying public ? I can tell you ! We are perceived as mercenary and unethical, that's what. I expect my puppy buyers to be well informed and to have exchanged emails and telephone conversations  with me before arranging a visit. I expect them to visit at least once ( yep, I have complained on this forum about those who overstay their welcome) but  I do not insist on a deposit. I would far rather be left with puppies 'past their sell by date' than have them go to a family whose circumstances have changed but feel they should take the puppy rather than lose the deposit/lose face. We are involved with sentient beings not cars/washing machines or whatever.

In response to the OP, I would have taken a more sympathetic line and have expressed my sympathy for the lady's plight . She could be genuinely ill and/or with issues that preclude taking a puppy at this time.

The term Timewaster is very offensive when used in the context of someone who has to withdraw from the agreement to take a puppy. We live in a very uncertain and stressful world and the current economic situation causes many  to make difficult decisions .

Wanted to write more but daughter just arrived home from Caucasus  for Xmas ! Whoopeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I have taken a small £50 deposit from my puppy buyers as advised in the Book of the Bitch (well there it advised a larger proportion), I feel this does reassure puppy buyers that they will be getting a puppy, and also avoids time wasters.

I am in a numerically small breed where good puppy enquiries are not forthcoming every day, and also the availability of puppies is also very patchy.

This amount is not enough for a person to loose if they truly do not then want to go ahead, as it is less than most of them will spend on fuel to come and visit us (it's rare to have local enquiries in a  breed with less than 100 pups registered a year).

As a breed we all try and pass on enquirers to other breeders that have litters planned, so once pups are booked they are passed on, not kept in reserve, as we neither like messing people around or being messed about.

In my very first litter with just 3 pups to sell I had 4 people let me down, and had passed up several good potential homes to  other breeders, and had to re-advertise puppies and home them later than ideal.

I of course would not accept a deposit until I had agreed and accepted the potential home.

How do others with an over subscribed waiting list determine that the people chosen are going to go ahead, without keeping anyone hanging about wondering if tehre is a pup for them or not?

I have somtimes had people waiting months befre a bitch is even mated, and once pups born and I go though my list asking for confimation of intent by sending their deposit.

I do not see it as mercenary but reassurance for both parties.

I won't take deposits - I feel if people really want one of the puppies, they will come and see us, our dogs, where the puppies are raised and I won't promise a puppy until I have spoken to the person on several occasion, met them, talk to them about the puppies etc... I understand the frustration of having a puppy  re advertised but I would rather that than the puppies going to a home just because of the deposit. From my experience, you can also discover new facts about the potential owners quite late on and I feel I want to be able to say NO if a matter arise which can be detrimental to the puppy.

Just my opinion though - I hate the term "timewaster" as well for having being called that myself by a breeder when I started looking for a puppy 7 years ago. I certainly wasn't! I only enquired about a puppy and was told I would never get one in that breed because I "wasted their time" when I decided against getting a puppy of that particular breed after reading more about it and deciding the breed was probably not best suited us!!
:-(

Each to their own.

I have taken a small £50 deposit from my puppy buyers as advised in the Book of the Bitch (well there it advised a larger proportion), I feel this does reassure puppy buyers that they will be getting a puppy, and also avoids time wasters.

That's exactly what I want to avoid. NOBODY is certain to get a puppy off me until they leave with it -I need to be able to change my mind (AND them theirs) right up until the last moment. £50 isn't a small amount -it is compared to full price of any pup, but compare it to anything else; for instance it is over a week's worth of food shopping for ourselves , and so there are plenty of people who would do anything to avoid losing it -including picking a pup from a breeder they don't feel is 100 % what they wanted.

>£50 isn't a small amount -it is compared to full price of any pup, but compare it to anything else; for instance it is over a week's worth of food shopping for ourselves ,

I agree totally. £50 is a substantial sum - more than a week's shopping for 3 adults, so not to be thrown away. I did agree to pay a deposit for my latest pup (cash in an envelope, to be returned if health tests were unsatisfactory) of that amount, and it wasn't something I was prepared to lose.

Luckily I really wanted that particular pup, and I have her!

£50 is also relative to the average price of that breed. Obviously it wouldn't be much compared to, say, the price of a DDB but in my breed (Border Collies/Working Sheepdogs), people can buy a Collie pup from £100 (and even cheaper in certain parts of the country) so it could actually be a fair chunk of the price.

but as I said most of my puppy buyers will be travelling using about that amount in fuel. 

No one has to leave a deposit if they feel uncomfortable with it, but if an equally or more suitable person comes along for the available puppies how am I to choose, it does help to winnow out those who are serious about having a puppy.

You could equally say that someone who hasn't put a deposit down and simply takes the puppy at the homing stage may just as easily change their mind afterwards.

I do ideally like to know where my puppies are going ASAP so that I then can get on and enjoy them rather than wondering if they have homes to go to right up to leaving time, and possibly be sending away potential good owners elsewhere.

It is what happened to me with that first litter, and it was horrible.  Yes they all found homes but the two remaining ones didn't go until 11 and 13 weeks, where they could have been in their homes sooner.

but as I said most of my puppy buyers will be travelling using about that amount in fuel. 

I don't see what difference it makes. If they spend £50 in fuel to get a puppy they are not 100 % sure about, or if they don't go for it and lose £50, either way they lose out -but by going for the pup, they have lost less (as they have a pup) so may take that option. I live in Yorkshire and have puppy buyers in Devon, Cornwall, Scotland, Wales, Northern and Southern Ireland -the same still applies -no deposit. It doesn't find you more buyers, or better buyers, by taking deposits. (It may even lose you some really good ones.) Going on your logic that people won't mind losing £50, then what was the deposit for in the first place? It didn't get you a buyer.

I never ask for a deposit but often find that people are desperate to pay one to make sure they secure their puppy. I see no problem with that providing it is a refundable deposit and you make it clear that it is subject to their circumstances and meeting them etc etc Encourage people to visit often. Sometimes I have only met them when the time to collect their pup comes because of distance but always where I have build a telephone/email relationship. Mostly they have had my breed before and lost one.
So the deposit is because they feel they want to and sometimes because they have wanted to spread the payment.
I also hate to see "non-refundable deposit secures" and the words puppy farmers spring to me at the same time I'm afraid.
At the end of it all deposit or no deposit, if they don't want one of my puppies so be it, I'm not going to rob them for a bit of my time wasted.
Diane

> I'm not going to rob them for a bit of my time wasted.
>

but it isn't just your time wasted, it's the time the puppy should have ideally been in a new home.

After my experience with my very first litter I decided to follow the advice in the Book of the Bitch (which was a major source of advice before I first bred, and since) to take deposits to know that the people were serious about having a puppy.

It may be different for breeds where the pups are very different and a buyer feels they have to choose a puppy, or in breeds where enquiries come in very quickly, and there are lots of litters to choose from so a time waster is no major inconvenience.

My deposits are only refundable if for any reason I cannot go on to supply the puppy (though I have once refunded where the buyer pulled out for what I considered an unforeseeable reason), and it is made clear.

In the end deposit or no deposit does not make anyone a Puppy farmer, or bad breeder.  We all choose to handle our waiting lists and make homing policies the way that works best for us and our puppies, based on our experience.

Speaking as a puppy buyer last year who spent a long time studying pedigrees, looking for breeders who health checked and being specific about colours I wanted the breeder to take a deposit from me.  I was one of those buyers breeders seem to hate, I live in NI and there were no puppies here (and hadn't been for a while) or in the south (that weren't puppy farmed :() so I looked to UK mainland.  I wanted a female (so obviously I am a puppy farmer too) as all our poodles have been females, that's just what we are used to.  I spent many hours trawling the internet, phoning breeders, asking friends of friends.  I did show and do some agility with our last girl so did have some friends in the show world who could give me references etc. I finally found our beautiful puppy in Feb, the breeder was fine with her coming here (but did get references, photos of our dogs/set up etc) and we talked for days on the phone.  I was paranoid she'd sell to someone closer before we got the ferry & hotel booked.  I seen photos of the puppy, her parents and all health checks, I checked up on KC website and poodle health registry.  

I paid a deposit securing my puppy before making the journey, I needed to know she was mine and I thank my breeder from the bottom of my heart for having the courage to let her puppy go so far away from her, to accept that I was a genuine buyer and devote of the breed.  She keeps in touch, we're friends on facebook and she can see that her puppy is enjoying a wonderful life, our house is wrecked and we don't care and we're the sort of owners that any breeder would be delighted with.

so for us, a deposit was right :)

No deposit taken here and never have in 35+ years.

They are my pups until the minute they leave and anyone who has one from me realises this. They know that if I say they can have one I dont go back on my word.....if they dont trust me when Im letting them one of my precious pups then its all down hill from there I feel.

Im afraid I dont consider it from the recipients point of view, it is secondary to my over-riding aims. No one has to have a pup from me, I am very happy for people to go elsewhere if they want a promise.

A while ago I was looking for a puppy and thought I had found what sounded like the perfect one. I made arrangements to view at the next weekend which was only a couple of days away. I called the breeder to confirm address and time and she had let the puppy go to someone else who had turned up and paid a deposit.
I was upset to say the least!
After this experience I would always want to pay a deposit.

Sorry to hear your experience Charlie Brown, must have been very disappointing for you but I would not want to buy from a breeder who works on a first come first served basis. That sort of person is only interested in the money, not placing pups in the most suitable homes for their own individual personalities (which can change so much up until they go to their new homes). To me, buying a puppy is not a race.

> After this experience I would always want to pay a deposit

If you had paid a deposit and you managed to get to this persons puppy first ( perhaps by luck) ,would it have made them a more careful and dedicated breeder?
You may have got a puppy but its the lifetime of that pup that counts not how easy it was to buy it IMO.
Marisa is so right, its not a race.

I completely understand where people are coming from when they refer to deposits being as you've described; I just want to be clear that I asked her for her deposit because I genuinely believed, after a week of faffing and then cancelling at the last minute (please understand I haven't and hadn't met the woman, only corresponded by phone and text with her, and sent her emails), that she was simply not going to do this. It was a knee-jerk reaction to let her know quite plainly that he would be going to a new home unless she got her act together; especially as she'd insisted I don't sell him before she'd seen him as she was sure she would want him. She ended up not getting her act together, and I decided in that moment that she was not having one of my babies if she couldn't even arrange herself after a week of talking. I completely sympathise that she may indeed need an operation...but the more I think of it, the more I think she could well have just been saying that for attention. She's a retired lady who probably doesn't get much company, and you could really tell this from her phone calls if you catch my drift.

Time wasters who are just not right for my pups I have no problem with; I had a woman visit last week who just wanted to learn about the breed a bit in hopes of getting a pup in future; then she made it clear she would like our boy, but by then I thought he would be at the home mentioned. Never the less, he wouldn't and hasn't been offered to the visitor; the way she behaved and her work hours were not the only things unsuitable, the fact she had the audacity to cuddle that puppy, look me in the eye and say 'Well you could have been mine if I'd been sooner!' made me very angry. I had never given her the impression she would get him if someone else hadn't, and for this reason I still haven't contacted her about him as she would have been unsuitable for other reasons too (getting rid of her rodents when they all came into season...which she claimed were her babies and she talked about them as such). Time wasters I can handle, because better that than an unsuitable home. Like I said, the other two puppies weren't deposited for; one owner turned down a puppy an hour from them because it wasn't eye tested, even though it was available sooner and was what they wanted, and instead drove five hours each way to visit and choose their pup from me instead...that was proof enough that they were the right people and wouldn't let me down. The second owner has visited each week since my bitch was confirmed pregnant, when she mentioned last week that she hadn't given me a deposit, I just laughed and said 'Well you're already in love with her...!', it was so irrelevant.

Since I started this thread I've turned down a few homes; one in Spain because I haven't met nor talked to the people enquiring, and as a novice breeder would not feel comfortable exporting. One of a very busy, very young family. One of someone with unsuitable working hours. I honestly have no problem keeping this pup until the right home comes along, but just like Barb says, I felt more comfortable before knowing that he had a home, I could enjoy him more being safe in that knowledge that soon all my pups wouldn't have to share with anyone for their affection.

I really hope I haven't come across as a bad breeder at all; I've really done everything I can for this litter, and I'm trying so hard to continue as we've begun.

I don't have a set rule about deposits and I take each potential new owner at face value. There a positives and negatives to both.

If you do not take deposits and you get a lot of interest over a specific pup how do you decide who gets the pup? If you do it on a first come first serve basis and don't take a deposit you could risk that buyer pulling out at the last minute. And yes, you might think that that is a better outcome than someone feeling forced to take a puppy so they don't lose a deposit. But what I tend to think about is the poor puppy. People's circumstances change all the time, they might want the puppy, not pay a deposit, take the puppy as planned and then 3 weeks later get sacked or get a new job that has hours that are not suitable for a puppy but it is too late (regardless of deposit!).

Then you have the problem that if you don't take a deposit and a buyer pulls out last minute that poor pup might end up staying with you for weeks longer - this means more turmoil for the puppy as the longer it stays with you the more attached it will become to you and if, like me, you have young children, the more attached they will also become to the puppy causing a whole lot more turmoil for everyone involved.

As for people feeling forced to take a puppy they don't want because they have paid a deposit and don't want to lose money in this economic climate, I don't believe that is the case at all. I think that because of the economic circumstances, people would be a lot more careful and would not part with money UNLESS they were sure about it.

I have had a lot of new owners ask me to take a deposit from them for a puppy to secure it for them, almost as a guarantee I won't let anyone else have it. Sometimes your "word" is not enough and people want some sort of reassurance. In this instance, I think if you refuse to take a deposit it would look like you weren't willing to make a promise which would lead to distrust. That being said, I would never take a deposit from someone who had not visited me and the puppies and the parents of the puppies. If they make the effort to visit us and choose a puppy in person I feel they have made an attachment to the puppy and if they want reassurance that they can definitely have it then I feel it is only fair to give them that.

The puppy is the most important thing and it is always better for the puppy to go to its forever home sooner rather than later. Not taking a deposit doesn't guarantee that the buyer will give the puppy a good home or guarantee that they really are sure about having it. I think that the reality of dealing with a new puppy (crying, house training etc...) is more likely to make someone change their mind than not losing £50. And that can happen whether a deposit is paid or not.

"I have had a lot of new owners ask me to take a deposit from them for a puppy to secure it for them, almost as a guarantee I won't let anyone else have it. Sometimes your "word" is not enough and people want some sort of reassurance. In this instance, I think if you refuse to take a deposit it would look like you weren't willing to make a promise which would lead to distrust. "

^^^^ This.
I am always interesting in reading any 'deposit' discussion on here as its something Ive thought about a lot.  Ive had pedigree dogs nearly all my adult life and have always paid a deposit.  However..it has normally gone from the telephone 'interview' to being invited to visit, one or several times to see the bitch and pups.  When the breeder has said that they are happy for a pup to go to us and have chosen/helped us chose one, Ive always paid a deposit.  From my point of view it was showing the breeder that we were serious about having a pup, we had already been vetted by them (after all there is only so much a breeder can get to know you initially and we had been as open as possible with all the questions we had been asked).  I wanted a guarantee that the breeder was happy with us, us with them and that we had got the puppy she had chosen for us.

A previous poster said something like "Im afraid I dont consider it from the recipients point of view" and "They know that if I say they can have one I dont go back on my word" (not picking on you especially its just a common theme amongst breeders sometimes that us buyers should trust you implicitly, but you have no trust in us. However ultimately these pups are for sale as they are not needed to further your line/show/etc so if you are wanting your pups to go to the best homes, not considering the buyer at all is rather offputting. If someone has that little faith in us that they can reverse their decision up to the point of us collecting the pup, why should we go out and buy everything that pup needs beforehand or forming an attachment to that pup in our heads or finding out about training classes or forming a relationship with the breeder?

After only a few visits/phone calls as a buyer we dont know the breeder very well, however we want to prove that we are a good home so offering a deposit is one of the few things we can do to show we are committed.  Apart from being grilled, interviewed, emailled, visited, possibly having our house googled (my house doesnt actually appear on google its only 4 years old, anyone googling my postcode would find a field, so that would be me out of the running straightaway).

Just to put the other side of things really. (As I said, not having a go at anyone specifically just sometimes these discussions dont really have many puppy buyers putting their point of view).

> A previous poster said something like "Im afraid I dont consider it from the recipients point of view" and "They know that if I say they can have one I dont go back on my word"

Perhaps I could have said that..... "I dont have to consider their point of view because - before I offer my pups to anyone I will know whether they are suitable. I almost always already know my puppies owners before birth, they are just waiting the call. Any pups who dont match the new people perfectly are offered to another person I know is waiting. If my word is not enough then they can go somewhere else. I dont need to sell them a puppy...most people know that"

I don't like the idea of it being a race to buy a puppy and she obviously wasn't a very reliable breeder and I'm glad I found out before I made a 5 hour round trip!

I'm just looking at it from a puppy buyers point of view. If you find a breeder who you like and a puppy you like it's a security to pay a deposit.

After that experience I found a really good breeder who I'm very happy with.

From a buyer's point of view, yes I understand that it's peace of mind for you but, as the breeder, I reserve the right to change my mind in the puppy's best interests so I would prefer not to take a deposit. As someone looking for a very specific criteria when looking for my next dog, I cannot make a decision until the pups are at least 6 weeks old anyway so do not appreciate being pushed to leave a deposit on a very young pup.

I'm with toolz here I've never taken a deposit and never will, they are mine until they leave and I reserve the right to decide who is going to have a pup from me.  I don't have to sell them to the first person who comes but will wait for the right person/family that will suit the pups personality and have proven to me they're able to provide the best care for a pup I've taken the best care to produce and rear.

Definitely agree with this. Last time I was looking for a pup to show I saw a couple of litters and one of the breeders wanted me to leave a non returnable deposit. As the pups were only 4 weeks old there was no way I would do that in case the pup didn't progress how I wanted.
The Breeder said she would not promise to keep the pup I liked if another suitable home came a long but said the deposit was not returnable even if I felt the pup turned out to be not what I was looking for as she grew. I felt i had to walk away as I didn't want to buy a pup from someone so unhelpful.

I can see your point from a buyer's point of view... I'm just glad my breed doesn't have many puppies in a litter which means there are only 2-3 homes to find and we always say to those enquiring they will know if a puppy is definitely available once they're 7-8 weeks old and not before. Maybe we've just been lucky so far but the puppy owners we have found haven't minded the colour and sometimes not even minded whether they would have a boy or a girl!
I guess with big litters, it's more important to "secure" homes? Anyway, I think I shall continue with my system although I don't think taking a deposit is a bad thing if it means "peace of mind" for the puppy buyer.

i have the same breed as you ludivine, last litter was 1 pup which we kept, although this litter has thrown us off with 7 pups, and everyone who has enquired has wanted certain colours and sexes... great.

im still trying to decide if i want to do deposits but at this stage im thinking no as i would like final say over the pups and homes

As a breeder myself if a previously agreed home turned out to be unsuitable (as you know some things only become apparent later on) I would still decline to sell a puppy and return the deposit.

The bottom line is a breeder wants the best home for a puppy irrelevant of deposit or not. I guess it depends what you want the puppy for. If it's a pet home placing a deposit at 4 weeks is fine if it's a show home it needs to be later.

> As a breeder myself if a previously agreed home turned out to be unsuitable (as you know some things only become apparent later on) I would still decline to sell a puppy and return the deposit.
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I thought taking a deposit from someone meant you have entered into a contract to supply them with a puppy in which case you are legally bound to sell the puppy to them whether you or not you later decide that they are not suitable for one of your pups. The law would be on their side and you may find you have no choice but to let them have the puppy.

When I bought Nando, I was out of the country working over in America. He was 9 weeks upon my return so before then my Mum and my sister went to visit the breeder (armed with a list of questions from me.) This was after about 3 weeks of emails and phone calls to the breeder by myself. My Mum and Sister visited the pups/breeder at 5 weeks where they left a deposit of £50 (£650 paid for the pup, so less than 10%.)

To me, that deposit meant that the breeder was happy for the pup to come to me, providing that nothing changed, and that the meeting the pup went well and that I was happy with the puppy upon meeting him. (Which I was, of course.)

I found that the deposit made me feel 'secure' in the fact I was going to come home to an available pup, and I was happy that the breeder was going to hold it. The way I see it is that the breeder wanted to find the best homes for their puppies, and I wanted to get one from a good breeder. The deposit was peace of mind for me, and the agreement that if both parties weren't happy with the situation, we both had that chance to 'back-out.'

I really do think that putting a deposit down helps as long as the buyers are aware that it is refundable if the buyer's aren't to the breeder's standards.

From someone who breeds (tortoises, not dogs!) I don't take deposits on my tortoises simply because it is often the first time I'll meet potential owners is when they come to pick up the tortoise, and I ask for pictures of facilities as well as a contract stating they will be returned to me for a full refund rather than being re-homed, should the need arise. However that is a slightly different issue as there is slightly less to consider with tortoises than puppies.

I'm just looking at it from a puppy buyers point of view. If you find a breeder who you like and a puppy you like it's a security to pay a deposit.

I'm sure ALL of us breeders have also at many points in our lives ALSO been buyers. At the very start, pure pet buyers, then later on buying a pup to potentially show and maybe take even further. I've NEVER been asked for a deposit, and it never worried me. However when I was looking for a pet puppy for myself in recent years (which I did both 6 ½ years ago and 1 ½ years ago) then anyone who wanted a deposit was an immediate red flag to me as a breeder to avoid.

If you sit down with any site or magazine that advertises pups you will be able to spot the back yard breeders a mile off, by the use of one or two phrases. 1. "Deposit secures". 2. "Pups flead <sic> and wormed".

>>>If you sit down with any site or magazine that advertises pups you will be able to spot the back yard breeders a mile off, by the use of one or two phrases. 1. "Deposit secures". 2. "Pups flead and wormed". <<<<

I would just like to say that as a responsible breeder (albeit on a small scale) I do not believe that stating your pups will be both flead and wormed to date means you are a back yard breeder????? How on earth did you reach that conclusion???

>I do not believe that stating your pups will be both flead and wormed to date means you are a back yard breeder????? How on earth did you reach that conclusion???

Because well-reared puppies shouldn't need de-fleaing; they shouldn't have fleas in the first place!

> pups will be both flead and wormed to date means you are a back yard breeder????? How on earth did you reach that conclusion???

Probably because thousands of internet ads quote it, often the sort which can sell you either sex, any colour,any age and any time.

Apart from a litter about 28 years ago, I cant say Ive every had a flea on one of my litters.