Just wondering this out of curiousity why they dont show them with their fur down.

I have always wondered as they look so much better with ti down like the dogs used in the latest Dulux advert, they look rather ridiculous with a haystack on their haunches.

Poof up ????

what with poofing up and ahaystack on haunches I cant stop laughing. Poor dogs I am sure a old english owner will be here soon to put us in our place and explain

I look and think HOW much back combing!!!! (I know they dont but thats what Poofing up looks like!!!!)
Leaq :) :) :)

Good question! 

One of these was being 'poofed up' if that's what you mean by backcombing, on a table overlooking our showring recently.  My little Evie (puppy) nearly died when what she saw as a strange inanimate furry object on a table moved.  Scared the pants off her!

I look forward to the answer!

I believe it is to accentuate the gently rising topline and pear shaped body, though I'm no expert!  The hindquarters should also be more heavily coated than the rest of the body.  Having shown other breeds before, and grown up with OES as pets (though always kept in full coat), I now have OES whom I show, and I am currently still mastering the art of grooming an OES for the ring.  I have to say that it does wonders for my bingo wings and shoulder strength! 

Not my cup of tea I am afraid I love the Dulux add with the OES running and the fur floating naturally so much more attractive I think. Sorry I have a breed that is wash and wear...
Aileen

I thoroughly agree Merlot, I would love to take my beautiful albeit well groomed,clean and matt free dog into the ring but can you imagine the hoo hah?!! I at least belong to the band which dont use the 'illicit' substances,and instead rely on using breeding to hopefully achieve the correct coat texture... What worries me more however is the trimming and shaping that is creeping in when the standard clearly states that there shouldn't be any!

> What worries me more however is the trimming and shaping that is creeping in when the standard clearly states that there shouldn't be any!

I think many of us have noticed that too, even those who judge the breed. But there has to be a will to move away from that kind of presentation and as long as it is rewarded, it will go on.

Bit like Poodles really, over presented etc.  I wish all breeds were shown more naturally but don't think that's going to happen.

That's what I love about my breed - ok you have to brush while drying to get the coat to lie flat otherwise they get sticky up bits over the bum when they lie down. And quite a few people do a sneaky subtle trim of the foot feathering. But otherwise, I at least don't do anything but wash, brush, and take in ring! And no trimming!

I believe it is to accentuate the gently rising topline and pear shaped body, though I'm no expert
ok thanks, have they allways been shown that way or did it just start at some point and catch on?

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">That's what I love about my breed - ok you have to brush while drying to get the coat to lie flat otherwise they get sticky up bits over the bum when they lie down. And quite a few people do a sneaky subtle trim of the foot feathering. But otherwise, I at least don't do anything but wash, brush, and take in ring! And no trimming!

I really should have a breed like that  (only because I am rubbish at grooming/trimming lol!)

It is what attracts me most to my breed, but you would be amazed at the amount of trimming and products used and artificial preperation done to my breed in the USA, and I really hope it never starts here.

I am quite happy to bath my dogs a couple of times a year when strictly needed to help along the moult or when they actually get dirty.  I would hate the idea of having to take a grooming table, haridryer and consider electric hook up essential for preparing my dog for show with sprays chalk etc.

With you Brainless, I love the breeds that are shown as they are, what you see is what they are. There are a few breeds I can think of where this is taken too literary and as a judge I would be happy for a tad more bath but appreciate there being no trimming, back combing or any other augmentation. Also love the breeds that are shown free stood and am guilty of asking for this even if the breed is stacked, in most cases it improves the dog no end being allowed to stand in a way they feel balanced.

Seem to remember a few years back a huge fuss because a Cruft's judge announced they did not want to see any brushes in the ring, think that was OES but may be not.

Yes that was OES.  I really can't see what good a brush in the ring can do, surely a hair or two out of place cannot be a big deal to a judge in a well groomed dog when it came in the ring.

Think perhaps I should say that trimming that is part of the breed working history (poodles) although I prefer the lamb cut, and any trimming or striping that is required before the dog could work should be maintained but grooming to enhance or elaborate the standard requirements is, on the face of it, plain daft.

in a well groomed dog

Think that is the problem, if grooming well means loads of back-combing then it will need the surface continually smoothing as the hair cannot fall back into it's natural position because it will have long since forgotten where that is.

Very true Brainless, there's an amazing amount of it goes on in my breed too. Mind you, there's probably more goes on over here than people will admit to, seeing as our standard specifies free from trimming. :-D

The Dulux advert was made on a beach where we walk most days and we were there when it was made.
I have to say that those dogs were gorgeous and were treated like stars and I'm really glad they weren't all puffed up.
Made me laugh when I saw the advert because the lighthouse certainly is not perfectly painted! It looks very raggety and you would have thought that a paint company would have offered to pain it instead of photoshopping it afterwards..

I would hate the idea of having to take a grooming table, haridryer and consider electric hook up essential for preparing my dog for show with sprays chalk etc.

Thats like when i go to a show with my friend, she has lhasa's, i got to cram into my small car a huge cage, a grooming table, trolly bottom for thecage to sit on, a big bag of brushes, combes ect and the dogs and us. Then have to get it all from the car to the benches then back again. I got her to ditch the grooming table for the last show. Then if i handle her dog i have to take a combe in the ring with me. Too much fuss, thats one thing i like about vallhunds none of that fuss

If I emptied my show bag between shows I would only really need:

a towel,
Chamois/wet wipes,
comb,
slicker,
benching chain,
show collar and lead,
poop/rubbish bags,
ring clip.

At open shows a light crate

Don't you have a water bowl?

Have to say if it weren't for the water bowl I could get everything in my pocket.

Lord yes forgot the water bowl, but you can get those bottles with the drinkie bit.

I have a water bowl that folds flat, into itself, made of red silicon which slips into my bag. Wouldn't be without it on walks or for companion shows, one of the most useful dog things I've ever bought! I can even dip it into a cattle trough to fill it if needed (one of mine thinks cattle troughs are not to be trusted and won't drink out of them directly).

in a word ,,,,,AMERICA   its there fault they brought it over here ,,but if the dog has the correct texture and undercoat ,the coat will stand on its own ,no need for back coming at all  but a lot of the dogs dont have sufficiant undercoat these days , when I showed my first OES a lot of years back there was none of this ,  I have always said jokingly
"" oes ,,mmmm must do my hair up before I can go out in the field""" not
I would rather show au natural x

Well I have a GSP who gets a bath once a year (if he's lucky)

yip i have three OES and they rarely get bathed  xxx

What about Bichon's!  This is what the breed standard state's.  I think the majority have more than just muzzle and feet tidied up!

"..Natural white coat curling loosely."

"Fine, silky with soft corkscrew curls. Neither flat nor corded, and measuring 7-10 cms (3-4 ins) in length. The dog may be presented untrimmed or have muzzle and feet slightly tidied up."

What about Bichon's!

Don't know how much work is done on these but it certainly does not include back-combing that changes the shape of the dog. Those I have stewarded for did not appear over trimmed not like some gundogs just a few stray wisps but I could be wrong.

Alot of work goes into shaping a bichon.

But it is only the hair that is out of line not wholesale topiary, could be wrong but it does not look like a poodle does when clipped nor does it suffer from razor marks as do the necks of some gundogs, no idea why they do it to a working dog sure it is not done for working reasons, the Bichon is at least a toy so moulding to the human will is to be expected if not accepted.

I was always under the impression that bichons were very much like clipped and scissored poodles, in that they undergo just the same intense grooming and endless combing and taking stray wisps off?

Yes, they always seem to have extremely sculpted coats; the definition in the standard is unrecognisable to the reality.

> I was always under the impression that bichons were very much like clipped and scissored poodles, in that they undergo just the same intense grooming and endless combing and taking stray wisps off?

Don't know if you saw Will Young's video, but that had a Bichon on it, in a pet clip.... I wasn't even sure what it was to begin with, as it looked way different to the ones you see in books and at shows.

I do sometimes wish it was easier to find pics of some traditionally clipped breeds "au naturel". I remember trawling through Google Images for hours once trying to find a pic of an unclipped Bedlington to prove to someone that a) their heads aren't really that shape, it's just the sculpting; and b) they can look very attractive and scruffily charming with the coat left untrimmed.

Think we need a groomer, I was under the impression that the coat was trimmed to a tidy shape not as in the poodle that is shaved in places, pet Bichons are clipped out but that is common with pet dogs even cockers are more often clipped than not. Mind you I knew one lady who had a fully coated Bichon but she never put it on the floor always carried it on it's walk :-)

If they really have inches cut off they are very skilled or the coat does not show the tell tail blunt ends, now I would really like to know because I thought they were tided not sculptured.

>If they really have inches cut off they are very skilled or the coat does not show the tell tail blunt ends, now I would really like to know because I thought they were tided not sculptured.

Natural bichon
Show-prepared bichon

Hardly what you'd expect from the description from the standard!

I thought they were tided not sculptured.

Very much sculptured, in fact prepared & scissored much in the same way as a poodle (but not the shaving).  Any Bichon exhibitor would regard their skill in keeping a Bichon coat in line with poodle people.  From a groomer point of view the coat is harder to keep matt free than a poodles (Bichon is softer and not as course) with a lot of work done to keep eye and mouth area white.  The Bichon isn't for the faint hearted!  Styles change, the head shape has gone from a more bell to a very round face over the years as has hind angulation.

http://www.bichon.org/PGZoom.asp?MyPhoto=Gallery/Museum/mrbeaumode.jpg 1970's

There are many videos on youtube, scissor skills a must!

Exactly what I thought. I know the standard calls for 'just tidying', but the reality is that they are every bit as trimmed and sculpted as a poodle. The pet ones I do can't compare, my scissoring is adequate but hardly great!! :-p

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31087123@N04/6440743537/

I'd still prefer a well groomed natural look (untrimmed except for comfort (anus and feet), as per standard.

> I'd still prefer a well groomed natural look

Me too.  Much prefer the look of the dog in JGs first link.

> did not appear over trimmed not like some gundogs
> suffer from razor marks as do the necks of some gundogs

Which gundog breeds are those Nova?

>I know the standard calls for 'just tidying', but the reality is that they are every bit as trimmed and sculpted as a poodle.

Can I throw Chows into the mix? 

http://www.chowchowringen.com/wds.htm

To me the coat is ruined, the trimming has removed the coloured top coat and left all the grey undercoat exposed, maybe it's just a European thing.

Oh I was naive enough to think that Chows were just given a wash and brush up lol