I'm not expecting much tbh but worth a try (and excuse me writing leggies, I seem compelled to do that although I don't know why :-p).

Is there much that can be done for weak back leggies?  Tia's are definitely getting worse, she's started scuffing her back feet if she has too much exercise - yesterday she did it after 2 x 20 minute walks round the field but 3 weeks ago she was only doing it after the last 90 minute jaunt round the woods we did :err:  I've also noticed in the last couple of days that when she gets up to follow me or whatever she sits probably 90% of the time when she's stopped - before she would stay standing.  And I'm now having to hold her when we get into the car to stop her trying to launch herself in - she can do it still but has started to buckle and finds that rather embarrassing :-P  Getting back in the car after a walk is now a full lifting job (before it was a case of her getting her front end up then me hoiking her bum in after her).  Will be sorting out a ramp for that very soon of course.

Once it reaches the point of me having to lift her just to get up to go out for a wee and so on that'll be it, she hates being lifted and it hurts sometimes and Tia being Tia, she's not bothered about showing her feelings with her pointy things :rolleyes: Plus, she gets upset if she can't go upstairs during the day and she's 30kg odd... :-P She also has to mark with her wee and again, gets upset if she can't and that'll become an issue I expect - she already can't squat properly because of the damage of her arthritis being ignored for 2+ years by my selfish brother.

Can't do hydrotherapy - money aside, she would be biting everyone and would just get far too stressed and tense for it to do any good.  And she's coming up to 13 so I don't want to put her through too much.

Silly thing is she's still happy to go gallavanting off at the field, she will run and quite energetically when she's just had her trocoxil!  Seems she's better with momentum LOL!

As I said I don't expect there's much that can be done - but a dog with dodgy back leggies is a first for me so I figure if I don't ask, I won't know!

I don't know how advanced arthritis has to be but have you thought of cartrophen, due to HD one of ours has been on it now for over a year & it has made a great difference. He had weekly course of four & then one monthly, I can always tell when he's due for his top up.

i went to the vet to ask if anything could be done to help flysses weak back legs(i suggested steroids in my innocence!)i was told that it was probably pain making her weak,i said she didnt seem to be in pain,and was told dogs are good at hiding pain.Anyway,she was put on painkillers,changing to trocoxil for her last year,i put those little pawz direct boots on her back feet for walks as she dragged them a little,i also used joint aid and she had a magnetic collar,she also had cartophren injections at first,which did help..good luck.

My last dog got weak back legs with age.
When he did start getting more 'dodery', he was stopped from getting on the sofa and we put a baby-gate at the bottom of the stairs. Bless him, he stumbled coming down the staris but luckily it was only the last few steps and also fell off the sofa while trying to get off, so thought it safest to stop him gettting to places that he could hurt himself from falling.

> she will run and quite energetically when she's just had her trocoxil

There may be some arthritis that could do with a bit of medication? Worth a vet check.
Would is be possible to increase the dose of trocoxil (obviously only once discussed with the vet)? I know that with Metacam the starting dose can be increased to find the lowest effective dose (again with vets advise and within manufactures limits), I wondered if that was possible with the trocoxil.

The trocoxil is set dose unfortunately, she's on the 31-37kg dose, 75mg.  But, there are 6mg tablets so I'll mention it next time I speak to the vet about Remy (I shall have to start writing a list of things to ask her lol, got a few on the go!).

Cartrophen is not an option because of it also, totally contra-indicated and she'd have to be off the trocoxil for a minimum of two months before she could have the cartrophen (had this query with Saffi) - not an option for her, she'd be in too much pain.

I'm in a dilemma at the moment over additional painkillers - tramadol is one of (if not the) only option as an added painkiller, but I'm wary of trying it although she doesn't seem especially sore though, as such - just weak.  She just crumples if she puts too much pressure on them (say, for example, jumping in the car as I mentioned but also if I go to give her a treat, she'll try to jump for it and end up sitting).

Problem with the tramadol is her grumpiness - just on valerian she gets a bit spaced and extra grumpy cos she's not quite with it, and knowing how tramadol sends me completely squiffy and did Soli too I'm erring on the side of caution at the mo.  But if needs must, I could put her on a little dose.

Thankfully she's smart about sofas - when she first arrived she was too painful to get on, she did then for a few months but has stopped again now.  Good girl!

My old Italian Spinone boy started collapso back legs around age 12-13 - I was already taking him to vet who did acupuncture for arthritis in his back which worked quite well.  However, this same vet also did homeopathy, and he put him on Conium drops initially daily and then dropping down to a quick spray inside his cheeks every 2-3 days.  I know some people are sceptical and pooh-pooh such alternative medicine as 'unscientific' but all I can say is that it worked for him, and dogs aren't aware of the placebo effect!  in fact one week I completely forgot to give him the drops for 5-6 days and was only reminded when he did a spectacular collapso on a remote hillside and was unable to stand up for about 10 mins - as he weighed 35 Kg and there was absolutely no one around to help it was scary, I couldn't lift him on me tod.  Anyway he eventually managed to raise himself, I got him home and dosed him with the Conium, and he didn't get the problem again as long as I kept the dose up.

Acupuncture was £28 incl per 30 min session and the Conium about another tenner per bottle, which lasted weeks. Only problem is finding a normally qualified vet who also does the alternative treatments - I was lucky and there's one not too far away in Masham, North Yorks.  About 70% of the cost covered by Pet Plan too.

Unfortunately thanks to idiotbro she's not insured!  But, what she needs she gets.

I am a pooh-pooher of homeopathy I'm afraid - that said I'll look into it anyway, while I may be skeptical I'm still willing to try things if they might help, whatever the reason they do.  Dogs might not be aware of the placebo effect but they can still be affected by it - kind of placebo-by-proxy, if the owner thinks the dog is going to get better and worries less the dog picks up on it and feels better themselves.  Dogs can be so sensitive - I have one who I only have to look at as though I think something might be wrong and it can send her into full-blown severe enteritis through stress, so I have no doubt that at the other end of the scale, the placebo effect can be passed on.

I'll have a look round for acunpuncture as well, skeptical of that too lol (didn't work for me) but again, heard plenty of reports of it helping so willing to try it.  Having her stay still is another matter mind you! :-P

Nikita - heh, nothing to lose except some dosh if you try one or both!

My chief anti-homeopathy pooh-pooer also kept bringing up the placebo effect by proxy argument.  However, as I said to him - please tell me how my dog knows he is supposed to collapse his legs (and then want to do it and be able to achieve it) because he didn't get something briefly squirted in his mouth the day before yesterday?  And then know, want to, and be able to stay upright the following day because he DID have something briefly squirted in his mouth yesterday or the day before?  He was an exceptionally intelligent dog, but not THAT intelligent, lol!! :-)

> I'm in a dilemma at the moment over additional painkillers

Is she on supplimets? Buster has artritis in both elbows, it so bad the elbows are actually fusing together. He's on cod liver oil and glucosmaine (vet recomends both of these for artritis), it's only very occasioanlly he needs any Metacam and that is if he's stumbled and jarred an elbow.  Defiantley worth a try if she's not allready on them.

When Buster was first diagnosed with ED as a pup,he was really crippled & put on Metacam, the Metacam eased things for him a bit. After reading on a Mastiff forum about the massive impact a liquid glucosmaine supplimet had on somebody elses dog I tried it on Buster. It can be double-dosed to start with to work quicker, I tentively took him off Metacam after about 3 weeks on the supplimet and was amazed to see the improvement he had been showing remained even without the Metacam.
The supplimet Buster had was Synflex, however the place I got it from have re-named it Flexwise. I haven't used Flexwise as my mum gave me a huge supply of glucosamine tablets that she got for a bargain price, LOl. I'll be going back to Flexwise when the tabs have run out. Here it is, I have always found them to be great on delivery speed.
I think it's possible to still get Synflex from some places, but I haven't used them so wouldn't like to recomend them.
If you do decide to search for Synflex, it has to be the origional version as the other version has things in it that has contraindications for those taking NSAIDs - the same goes for some other suppliments/makes, the one ingredient I can think of, of the top of my head is willow-bark, so do check any ingredients out and/or show your vet a list of ingredients.

If she is allready on a glucosamine suppliment, if it is glucosamine sulphate, swap that for a glucosamine hcl suppliemt, the hcl is more effective.

> Thankfully she's smart about sofas - when she first arrived she was too painful to get on, she did then for a few months but has stopped again now.  Good girl!

Ah bless, she is a good girl :)

I was referring to placebo-by-proxy generally, not in your specific instance - I can't explain your dog's improvement which is why I'm not a completely adamant, never-budgeable skeptic but a general one who is still willing to try these things despite my misgivings, precisely because I've heard of cases where improvement shouldn't have happened but did :-)

no sweat Nikita, just hope you find something that works for Tia, whatever it is.

George has flexwize, I think synflex have just changed their name as all that's different is the picture and colour of the label. As said make sure you get the dog version, not the human one due to the added extras.

> George has flexwize, I think synflex have just changed their name as all that's different is the picture and colour of the label.

Ahh, I thought that was the case. That is why I was reluctant to put a link to places that still sell Synflex, as it's either old stock or websites that haven't breen brought up to date (in which case I'd worry about them actually sending stuff when purchased).

Is George happy to eat it? Some people have said they have to mix it in with food to disguise it, but Buster will slurp it off a spoon.

Scarlet has weak back legs compounded by arthritis. She takes Previcox for the arthritis and has had Cartrophen injections successfully in the past. All the time she was able I encouraged her to trot up slight hills, this gradually improved the muscle tone of her legs and helped. Now that she will only walks I see the strenth is being lost again. Other supplements are Chrontroitin/Glucosamine and Omega 3 fish oils. 

I would suggest trying to restrict her to walking on grass as that will do less damage than pavement walking when she scuffs her feet. My Golden did very well on PLT (prednoleucotrophin) which is a very old-fashioned drug with 1mg steroid per tablet. I get a prescription & buy it on line where it is heaps cheaper. It helped Kiera like a miracle drug. Worth a thought.

My friend recently had the same worry with her 13 yr old bitch Peggy, it was so bad poor Peg would fall over if she was on the lino in the kitchen. The vet diagnosed arthritis ( which we were both dubious about ) but after some metacalm and the addition of Corta-Vet she's much much better, she's now on just the Corta-Vet and back to normal.

How badly does your dog scuff her feet ? if it just involves her nails I'd suggest using nail caps rather than boots, they are made from silicone that you cut to size and glue over the nail with the glue provided, much cheaper than boots and you don't have to take them on and off . http://www.spuk.com/ don't be put off by the colours, they come in clear and black too.

Mastifflover,
I just squirt it on his food. It smells lovely but tastes horrid!

She walks mostly on grass already, I know from myself that it's easier on the joints (I can walk for much longer if I avoid pavements/footpaths).

The scuffing isn't bad at the moment - I'm playing around with walking times/frequency to stop it happening, last time it did she'd done the 2 x 20 minutes and since then she's had alternately 20 minutes once a day and nothing the next day to ease things off for a little bit.  Today I've started with 10 minutes Am, 20 minutes afternoon and 10 minutes PM.  The scuffing happens in the evening if she's done too much so I'm going to see how she does this evning before the second 10 minutes then do it or not depending.

I will have a look at the nail caps though, they look quite useful :-)

The last 2 years of my Sadies life were good quality through going on the treadmill at the hydro centre,her back legs improved so much that she was able to come off medication,i know you said she is not insured,but if her meds are expensive it could be a option,its a glass tank with lovely warm water,they are only in there a couple of minutes,I was able to hold Sadies lead and give her treats,I think she thought she was walking in streams,she got to love going there,bless her.

Sheila

My lab's done hydro in the treadmill and it was fabulous for her - but it would simply be too stressful for Tia, no way around it otherwise she'd have gone already :-(

Her arthritis is that painful that even with hydro I doubt she'd be able to come off that anyway (Saffi hasn't been able to and she's in much less pain than Tia would be) so the cost is irrelevant.

Thanks anyway :-)

> Tia's are definitely getting worse, she's started scuffing her back feet if she has too much exercise - yesterday she did it after 2 x 20 minute walks round the field but 3 weeks ago she was only doing it after the last 90 minute jaunt round the woods we did

Has she been checked by your vet for Degenerative myelopathy?