Hi there,

Trying to get my head around registration. I have no papers for Pip (but a lot of love!) so I don't really know how it works!

When a pup is born out of unregistered parents, they can only be KCA registered etc, yes?
If you breed an unregistered (by which I mean not registered fully) bitch or dog with a KC registered other - the pups cannot be registered fully, right? Only KCA?
So the only way to end up with registered pups is to start of with fully registered parents?
I've only just found out that an ISDS BC can be registered with KC without having KC registered parents!

It would be nice to understand this so I can understand some more of these posts!

P.s as I write this, my pups are trashing my garden furniture with their teethies - best get a shift on!

Unless both parents are fully registered with the Kennel club, puppies can only ever be registered on the activity or companion registers.
ISDS registered Border Collies are automatically given KC registration on demand. But KC registered BCs can only be registered ISDS if their parents are, unless they can prove outstanding working ability and you jump through a lot of hoops :-D

ISDS border collies - or pups with ISDS parents can be KC registered without any hassle at all, it's automatic.  It's the only breed where this happens.  The KC have though opened up it's registers to all breeds however there are many hoops and the dogs so registered are noted as such on the register, as are their progeny.  This is quite a contentious area and many are opposed to it.  However, I understand it was to help out particularly certain breeds where the original registration process left many dogs unregistered, an example is Lancashire Heelers.  Like unregistered border collies many of these dogs are of 'known' parentage - although this is by the breeders rather than an independent register - and many breeds are similar.  There is a worry that a cross breed that looks very like one breed could be registered and used to breed with some weird outcomes a generation or two down the line.  I can't recall all the hoops, but it includes all the relevant health tests and the opinion of championship level judges.

For ISDS registery there are two distinct levels - for beginner handlers the test is more basic although still difficult, for experienced shepherds the level is higher.  ISDS on merit is a credit to the dog, the handler and working ability :-)

Bizarrely Cody was registered first on the ISDS register and his certificate calls him a 'working sheepdog', with his KC registration he became a 'border collie'.  Whilst Jed who I got through rescue from a farm in Cornwall with no papers was registered on the KC activity register as a 'working sheepdog' as the KC actually distinguishes for some bizarre reason going back to early KC registration, possibly because ISDS consider their dogs to be 'working sheepdogs' between breed registered border collies and activity registered working sheepdogs.

Thanks PennyGC - that was very helpful

So with regards to ISDS registery - can you begin with an unregistered WSD, train and complete the test in order to register a dog?
In this method, couldn't you therefore bring many unregistered SD's into KC registration with obviously a lot of hard work etc.
Or does parentage still play a role somewhere along the line?

I'm still learning the ins and outs of registrations etc so it's really interesting to learn from someone who knows.

Thanks for your help! :)

As I understand the rulings, you can get ISDS  registration for any WSD if you can prove it's working ability to a sufficiently high standard. Once the dog is ISDS registered then KC follows automatically.
But as you stated an awful lot of work involved along the way :)

Does the dogs owner not have to prove it is purebred? and have a pedigree?  After all it woudl be going onto the kennel club "breed" register.

Registration on merit  is not an easy route to take and the ISDS registration is the accolade that those that do are looking for. KC registration although allowed is not totally automatic and  I do know some KC registrations have been revoked from ISDS registered dogs previously.

Registration on merit requires you to know the ancestry of your dog - this is still possible, but it's now more likely that an application will be from KC registered dogs rather than unregistered WSDs :-(   It's only possible if you can prove your dog's pedigree.

ISDS on merit has nothing to do with KC registration - that's up to the owner after the event.  But yes, they do have to have a 'known pedigree'.

Woaaaaaaah.

There are enough loops and hoops to make a few minds boggle there!
Thanks for your help though :)