i need help please in about three weeks time i am taking on a rescue bitch she is 3 and she needs some tlc, put some weight on and have a bath etc, i will be getting her in three weeks as she has finished her maternal duties, but her boobs are down to the ground nearly she is alow slung breed to start with, the people i am taking her off said she has been like this since last year she has no milk in her breasts and she does not seem to bother her but just wondering if i could help her tighten up so they do not drag on the ground.
Putting the weight on her is no problem have been through this before but just need any advice on this please is there any way i can tighten her up or are they just going to be like this the rest of her life thanks in advance

i will be watching this thread with interest as i too have recently taken on a 3yr old bitch with saggy boobs and she had her litter last january :(

Would swimming do any good? Totally guessing here! :-p

When someone comes up with the solution - will it work on people as well please :-)

i know people at a rescue used to knit body jackets for droopy bassets that had their poor boobs on the floor

I have a cavalier that I rescued in April.....not sure if all details were true but her under carriage has a lot to be desired but after a few extra walks it looks better but unfortunately gravity doe`s take its toll............she might even been ex breeding however she has not been mated , only saw blood for one day but is acting as if she has a phantom pregnancy also producing milk......any ideas searching for a litter that needs a mum :)

Sounds like she may have had back to back litters which hasn't allowed her to get back to normal between.

You could try a baby vest with poppers to fit around her tail, this will stop them getting injured by catching on the ground/steps.

Extra weight may fill out the excess skin and exercise help with the rest.

I would.. get her fit and healthy, inc. swimming and steady exercise and a really top quality diet.

Use a jacket or tshirt or something to hold the sagging boobs off the ground to avoid injury.

Feed supplements designed to help the skin.

And then re-assess the situation when you have her spayed (as presumably you will if she isn't already?) and consider a mammary strip and basically a boob job, to tighten up the skin there.

theemx, brilliant post.  I was just going to say the very same!!
One of my girls was very saggy after her litter.  To the extreme, I would say.  But plenty of exercise and cutting down her food heloed a lot. 

Theemx I agree with the part of your post about getting her fit and healthy, using a t-shirt - all good advice.

But this part I absolutely cannot agree with..

> consider a mammary strip and basically a boob job, to tighten up the skin there.

IMHO that is an appalling thing to suggest. A mammary strip is a major operation and should only be carried out if absolutely necessary (i.e. in the case of mammary tumours). To suggest any operation purely on aesthetic grounds for a dog is (again imo) immoral. This op in particular is such an invasive one that I have refused it on a bitch with mammary tumours.

BH bitches that I've seen after having a litter look very uncomfortable with teats near to the ground, even those who have had just the one litter. Whether this is due to care or the large number of pups they can have I don't know but to conside a mammary strip & a boob job, to tighten up the skin as chaumsong said, I'm appalled.

> IMHO that is an appalling thing to suggest

Good grief - I agree :( :( Plastic surgery for dogs - what next :( Just a little surgery to improve a jawline ?? :(

Yes, because quite obviously, there is a direct comparison between tightening up extremely dangling undercarriage, when a bitch is already under GA for a spay, as it is getting sore, caught on things, chafed, infected, and at a much higher risk of mammary cancer (which is at a higher risk of going undetected as its harder to see).... and cosmetic plastic surgery for aesthetics sakes.

*Ties self to stake - hands you the matches*

However a mammary strip is hugely invasive, complicated and time-consuming - far more so than a spay, and that can be difficult enough, and can leave an enormous wound with tremendous potential for infection. The time spent under anaesthetic is far longer and it's a very risky operation for the bitch. Some vets, if a mammary strip is needed for medical reasons, will only do one half of a strip from one side of the body at a time because of this. To have a bitch undergo four major operations would be verging on unethical.

And the OP did say that the sagging undercarriage did not bother her, I stick by my post that it is an appalling thing to suggest.

OK, I will take it back, slightly.  I do think it depends on the lifestyle and to suggest it to a pet owner was wrong.  My bitch, for example, has allready had to have her tail amputated from the harsh, thick undergrowth that she works in so I wouldn't like to have worked her when she was sagging too.  That was why pulling it up had even been thought about.  I would've had to retire a fabulous bitch because of saggin skin.  TBH, I probably wouldn't consider this surgery unless the sag was very extreme, eg, on the ground.  I did use one of my sons jumpers till she was 'tightened' enough to run without.

> when a bitch is already under GA for a spay

It is not only the GA that I think is the issue but the considerable post op trauma of pain and wound care. 
Few breeds would ever need this for ground clearance in normal activity and those that do should really be looking at their construction in my opinion. 

> I would've had to retire a fabulous bitch because of saggin skin.

Sorry but I think between this and significant surgery I think the ethical choice is obvious :)

> I would've had to retire a fabulous bitch because of saggin skin.

Oh I wonder which I would prefer if I were a dog, a long painful recovery from a major operation or retiring but still being a happy, healthy family pet. To consider this op unless it is absolutely necessary to prolong the life of a bitch is downright cruel. Sometimes even if it is to prolong the life of the bitch it should still be considered very very carefully and may not be the right answer even then.

I do agree that surgery is a bit extreme in the circumstances.
But I think in some cases you are wrong about retiring to be a happy healthy family pet. I have known and owned working dogs that would be extremely unhappy if made to retire and not allowed the work that is their whole reason for being (in their opinion !) Some dogs do not make the transition easily if at all.

> I have known and owned working dogs that would be extremely unhappy if made to retire and not allowed the work that is their whole reason for being

What do you do if any other physical condition prevents them from working?

I used to take my old terrier out at least a couple of times a week for rabbit clearing when she was half blind and totally deaf. She was no use, but she didn't realise that and it made her so happy to be doing the job she loved. I don't honestly know what I would have done if her legs had failed her so that she was physically incapable. I suppose that I am lucky that I never had to make that decision.
I have a friend (acquaintance) who eventually had his sheep dog put to sleep because she was incapable of working and was pining to such an extent that it was cruel to keep her going. Not an easy choice, but I admire him for putting the dog's needs first. It is really about quality of life as much as quantity.

Er - I did say 'consider' and you might note I did put this AFTER all the other options. I had thought it was pretty obvious that this would be with discussion with the OP's vet (and the rescue) and only a consideration IF the girl was in pain or getting repeated infections/chafing etc.

I am REALLY not sure (or happy!) that people have leapt to the conclusion I am suggesting this as something to do as a matter of course, OR purely for aesthetic reasons.

I HAVE seen this done on a rescue bitch who was in serious pain, repeated infections etc and put the suggestion out there because there are times when it might be the right thing to do.

Of course if the girls boobs do tighten up a bit and she isn't catching them anywhere or getting them infected then theres no problem and they can remain dangly for all eternity!

I get the feeling some people think I am recommending this as a definite course of action so that the girl can work or be shown or something, I am categorically  not, it is ONLY a consideration for the bitches comfort/health, NOTHING else.

Frankly I am quite annoyed that people would think I was suggesting otherwise!

> It is really about quality of life as much as quantity.

I would agree :)

Appologies if I have misunderstood you :) but I think we are still at cross purposes. 
I appreciate that you do not condone this for cosmetic reasons, that part was very clear, but you do seem to be saying in your first post that it can be excusable if it is to relieve pain rather than cosmetic but my stance is that, as the operation involves considerable post operative pain and wound management, the balance of benefits is still not there, in my opinion.
Frankly, I am annoyed that you can get annoyed at people simply missunderstanding.............if they have :-D

They absolutely have misunderstood me, yes.

So, short term pain from a partial or complete mammary strip - is WORSE, than LONG term pain, chronic infection, repeat injury?

I am really not sure where the references to retiring a bitch either from work or show, come into it - I am talking about for a purely pet dog, who is standing on/tripping over/catching her dangling undercarriage on things and as a result they are a mass of sores, infections, wounds, chafing etc.

I HAVE seen bitches come out of rescues like this, I am not suggesting this for a dog who 'just' has unattractive looking loose boobs, nor would I.

I am upset that longstanding members of this community can think otherwise of me (given HOW long I have been here, on and off, and the rational, sensible content of probably 99% of my other posts!).

> Frankly I am quite annoyed that people would think I was suggesting otherwise!

Well to be fair you did suggest otherwise, or appear too. So either your original post was badly worded or you've changed your mind. No reason to get upset at us :-)

The OP said...

>does not seem to bother her but just wondering if i could help her tighten up

and you said

>consider a mammary strip and basically a boob job

So her sagging undercarriage is not causing her pain but you suggested considering a 'boob job' anyway.

Wow, pardon me, I must have missed that little bit, though, it was midnight...

If I had not used the words 'boob job', which I will concede, was not the right wording (and a mammary strip is about as much like a boob job as a flipping mastectomy.. ie NOT at all!) would people still be trying to nail me to a stake and set me alight?

I think a lot of people have jumped to some conclusions that were entirely unnecessary regarding my post!

The term doesn't matter. We have a bitch here with sagging undercarriage that isn't bothering her at all and you were/are suggesting an extremely painful major surgery.

Just out of interest have you ever had a bitch go through a mammary strip? I have and I was so upset afterwards at the pain she was in that I said I would never put another bitch through that. The elderly lurcher I rescued a few years ago had mammary tumours and the vet and I made the decision to leave them, she had a good couple of years after that. I certainly would never ever consider such invasive surgery for a bitch who really doesn't need it.

If I misunderstood too, then I apologise - but I took it as I read it. I'm prepared to accept SOME blame for misunderstanding, maybe you could accept the other bit for not explaining clearly ?? :) :) :)

> people still be trying to nail me to a stake and set me alight

Surely a simple 'I didn't put it very well, did I :) :) :) ' would have had everyone smiling ??

Ah Daisy, you're such a great peacemaker.

Indeed, instead of arguing back and forth about who said what can we just agree that you're not actually recommending a mammary strip for the OPs bitch?

Maybe, but the leaping to conclusions and burning me for a witch happened a bit flippin quick, no one asked me to clarify or explained exactly what they thought I was suggesting!

I have had a bitch had the lower four mammary glands removed, yes - She was a very tall dog so no, it wasn't done on the grounds they were dragging on the floor (though if they had been that would have been all the more reason!), she also had a lot of little tumours that were going nasty *(open sores etc).

Honestly, she recovered from it very well, though as I hope I am making clear it (or ANY surgery) is not something I would consider lightly. When I say 'consider' I do mean, in fact, 'research the pros and cons and discuss with a vet or two', and not 'just think about it' - I do apologise if my meaning of the word 'consider' was not actually clear.

> Ah Daisy, you're such a great peacemaker

LOL :) :) :) Do you want to come and tell my neighbour that ?? :) :) :)

> I do apologise if my meaning of the word 'consider' was not actually clear.

Thank you :) :)

But when someone posted in the health section about a 12 yr old with mammory tumours, everyone jumped to say that they had experience of older bitches having quick recoveries from such a big surgery?  I, personally, wouldn't put an older bitch through this but a younger girl with a chance of a more comfortable life?  Yes.  I missed the part about the bitch not being so bothered about the teats and had visions of dragging and cuts but if it's just for cosmetic then I don't agree but if it makes the dogs life more comfortable, why not?  My vet would also have taken excess skin, not mammory strips anyway.  Where's the difference between that and say, entropin eyelids?  Or the bloodhound which had a face-lift to make his life more comfortable?

> Maybe, but the leaping to conclusions and burning me for a witch happened a bit flippin quick

Nobody leapt to conclusions, we commented on what you wrote and gave our own opinions of it. I didn't see a single person carrying wood to make a pyre, merely people giving their opinions.

Yes - blimey!

I am not recommending a mammary strip for THIS bitch, having re-read (and had it practically tattooed onto my eyes) I missed a few words from the post.

I stand by what I said where the options *I* would consider if *I* took in a bitch with really sagging boobs though - support with a jacket or tshirt, exercise, correct feeding, skin supplements.. and only then, IF the bitches boobs were still dragging on the ground or catching on things or chafing and getting repeated infections, I would then consider surgical options.

I actually wouldn't consider boobs that are NOT very close to, or actually dragging on the ground, all that much of a problem - aesthetically, not pleasing but that of course is NOT my main consideration if I rescue a dog anyway.

> I am not recommending a mammary strip for THIS bitch

Thank you :-)

>the leaping to conclusions and burning me for a witch happened a bit flippin quick

Well, you did say "*Ties self to stake - hands you the matches* " !! ;-) :-D

I'm glad you've clarified that you meant just the removal of excess skin and not a mammary strip - the two are very different procedures. I knew one bitch who had a partial mammary strip and the long anaesthesia and post-op pain, despite strong analgesia, caused a heart attack, organ failure and death. Only one bitch, but it's a very major operation.

Did anything work to get rid of sagging . I have a bitch who only had one litter of 11 pups she is back to her beautiful self but year on has sagging still we tried swimming ,she is exercise loads ,she is raw feed but we added more fish .

If this has been there for that long, I doubt anything you do will make much business.   This is why, when possible, all our nursing bitches were off their litters by the time they were fully onto solids, to prevent them being dragged on by the litter when it wasn't needed.   I had a bitch back in the ring (Crufts yet) after nursing her litter (admittedly only a small one as half were lost, by the then vet, at birth - we sued) but for the most part, our bitches didn't suffer from overly hanging teats after their litters.

Why don't you start a new thread with this q.?