Hi all
one of my puppies left on Saturday for new home at 10 weeks old , she goes to bed at 11 every night after having some ambrosia rice and is crying till 1.30 and waking again at 7.20(which is time they always woke at) looking for some tips I can pass on to new owner,  first little guy was the same  but is now sleeping at night so I myself think they just need to get into a routine she is sleeping in a crate with older dog of same breed .

thanks

Did your pups leave with an unwashed bit of blanket/vetbed that stinks of 'home'?      I found that none of the pups that left here had any problems settling at night as they had a 'blanky' from home - a piece of the vetbed they were seeping on ;)

We still have the 'blanky' that our first bitch came with 11 years ago - it's now a tatty bit of threadbare vetbed that is still adored LOL and our pups' owners still have theirs too :)

yeah she left with some vet-bed and a comforter and a blanket :/ she is very strong willed (like her mother) so think she is just testing , I told them to move crate to family room or kitchen as that is where she is used to

She's a 10 week old babe, probably bonded much more with your home life and routine being older, she is missing her home, her siblings, her mum and of course you, she's in a strange place, with strange people, who wouldn't cry?

Is the pup locked in a crate with another dog? Or is the crate open? If the crate is locked not very fair to the older dog IMO being kept up and possibly pee and poo in it's crate from the pup. They should have separate sleeping areas.

If the comforter from your home is not pacifying and if the pup is to stay downstairs they will have to completely ignore the pup, not go downstairs at all, she will give up if no attention is being given, if they have neighbours it may be best to just explain that a new pup is in the house and apologise for the noise which should stop in another day or to, she needs to get used to her new surrounding, people and the older dog, bit of a risk to have them sleeping together after only Saturday, they hardly have had time to bond?????

When I have a pup they usually settle to sleep between 9-10pm I then go down at 4am to let them out for a pee, eventually moving my time later and later as they mature, I've always found this toilet-trains super fast and it breaks up the pup being alone for a good 8-10hrs on a night as pups frequently wake up, potter about and go back to sleep, if they know they will have a 5min company break coming when they wake up for a pee IMO it helps them to settle quicker. :-) But, I know not everyone wants to do that.

Just give her time, they are expecting too much, this time next week, if given no attention when she cries hopefully she will settle. :-)

i have a very strong willed puppy, first night at home 2hours and 40 mins actually screeching and never took a breath i picked her up as my daughter was taking exams and needed the sleep and i put her not so gently onto my bed and she went over 7am wake up it was bliss, next night she came into the bedroom with us and slept through from 11pm till about 6am no mess she is now 11 months old and has decided that everyone should be up at 5.20am in the morning as she thinks it is time to get up and we have tried ignoring her, but she starts and yoddles so the rest of the pack get up she then rushes into the garden says hello to everyone and goes back to sleep on the sofa.
we have tried cage, cage covered,puppy pen, but no the only thing that settled her was sleeping at first with us i know bad idea but now she goes and sleeps under the bed and nothing until dawn chorus and that is her dawn chorus not the birds.
All the other pups i had slept in a cage in another room no bother this is the only one we have ever had probs with, at the moment she is trying to work her way up through the pecking order only one of the others have given way to her the others are standing their ground, she is a very strong puppy will try and try and try till she either gets told off by the others or they chase her, she demands attention all of the time which the other members of the family give her, she did sit on the arm of my OH chair while he was eating and tell the other dogs off if they walked by, i soon stopped that, she started guarding my OH from the others and we both stopped that so a strong puppy can be a nightmare at times, but we love her so much her attitude for what i got her for is brillaint she is frightened of nothing that we have shown her except some sheep but that is another story ......

> looking for some tips I can pass on to new owner

patience and perserverence.
If pup is fed/watered/toileted/comfy then its just a case of getting used to the new surroundings and new routine. Some say a ticking clock or bedding from breeders home helps too.

> have a very strong willed puppy, first night at home 2hours and 40 mins actually screeching and never took a breath

Poor puppy. A young puppy is not "strong Willed" A young puppy taken away from everything it has ever known including its mother and litter mates is bound to be distressed. Especially when its new family then abandon it too. No wonder it is distressed. Like human babies puppys cry as a sign of distress. A young pup is programmed to make a distressed noise so that the pack can find it.  I really really hate the advise given just to let a puppy cry.

Much kinder to start the puppy off in a crate in your bedroom where you can comfort it so it knows it has not been abandoned. Once the puppy has got used to the new home then move the crate to where you  want the puppy to sleep.

> I really really hate the advise given just to let a puppy cry.

I couldn't agree more lilyowen. A crate in the bedroom or a camp bed set up near the pup would be my choices.

Give up the Ambrosia rice - too much sugar, just before bedtime, won't be doing her any good.  4  proper puppy meals per day will be better for her digestion and help them and her find a natural pattern to her sleep and wake times.  

Let her sleep in her own crate or bed.  The adult must be exceptionally tolerant to put up with a puppy in his bed but I wouldn't risk that continuing.

Whilst the puppy learns to settle, they should either take her upstairs with them or sleep downstairs near her.  The pup needs some reassurance and, contrary to popular belief, it won't make the pup too dependant.  In fact it's the reverse, a puppy that never gets overly stressed will develop confidence more quickly.  A crate by the bed enables you to shush or soothe a waking puppy so that it never reaches the screaming stage.  She may just roll over and settle down, or she might need a wee but either way they need to learn the difference.

Finally, suggest they read The Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey, and The Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell - both excellent books full of common sense and practical exercises to improve the owners understanding and help develop good routines and training skills.

I'm with Pedlee and lilyowen.  I have never, and would never, let a youngster cry and cry.  How spiteful.

I found a deep cardboard box beside my bed, so that I could dangle my hand in was the magic solution for me and one of my pups, and also worked for someone else who was having problems.  Eventually if crating is necessary, the same box (with a cut out in the front) can be moved into the crate to make that transition. For me, I just went with keeping the box with a cut out front in the bedroom once my GSD pup was able to climb out of it.

I would be very worried at shutting the pup in a crate with an adult dog (for both of them), though once my GSD pup had free run of the bedroom he did often snuggle up to my older dog on her bed, and she didn't mind, but neither were confined.

I would move the crate up to my bedroom if possible or as china blue suggested a deep cardboard box.
Most pups in my limited experience of half dozen dogs settle quite quickly after a little crying that I can cope with but not real distress as this sounds. I also would be wary of the two together in one locked crate.
I have now decided that my pup 7mths, is best upstairs with me the only problem I now have is that her crate is too big for my room  and without it she  can wake early and pop downstairs to the door mat and do a poo. All without me hearing where as if she is down stairs she will wake me up but refuse to go back to bed and I dont want to be up ay 6.00

All in all Iwould go for the by the bed soloution

have to agree,had two pups recently,both slept in crate at side of my bed,and i swear,not a peep,well,theyd stir when they needed a wee,so id trot downstairs with them,then back to bed.much reccomended!

My pup cried when we got him and my daughters and I moved downstairs to sleep with him and stick hands into his crate and make comforting sounds to him when he needed us to whilst maintaining toilet breaks with him...poor chap...going from a litter of nine to being alone with just a stuffed walrus and some mummy smelling vetbed for company...we couldnt and wouldnt leave him or any puppy to cry. Your puppy just needs some Tlc and time but as someone has said I would be a little wary of the older dog...however patient..I would be worried its a bit of a big ask you are asking of it. Agree too about the food and sugar...definately put on a normal diet.

I know of a couple that left an 8 week old puppy to cry. Eventually the cries stopped. When they entered the kitchen in the morning the poor little mite had got trapped behind the boiler and died. I always have a pup in the room with me until they are happy to be left.

Some good advice given here along the lines of reassurance and not letting the pup cry continuously.I too would cut out the bed time rice pudding - as said too much sugar and digestion going on when it should be sleep time.I would crate seperately and place the crate either beside their bed and reassure by soothing noises and touch or in sight by their open bedroom door.Like human babies,pups will cry because they have needs.Also try an old fashion ticking clock wrapped safely or just out of reach as a safety procaution.One of my puppy owners tried this and it worked a treat.

One of my previous Spanish took a month before he would go to sleep happily in his crate.  I would just stay sat inthe living room with him until he eventually fell asleep and luckily he wouldn't get up until nearly 8.00 in the morning.  Took a number of weeks but was worth it in the end.

Oh Crinklecut
That made me feel sick. How dreadful, that poor little pup. I would never get over the guilt.

Even as adults I prefer my dogs be in the bedroom with me, I always worry about bloat and other potential problems, and think if they were in distress would at least have a chance of waking me, or of me sensing a problem being in the same room, or hearing them being sick or whatever it may be.

> I found a deep cardboard box beside my bed, so that I could dangle my hand in was the magic solution for me and one of my pups

We had to do this with our lab when we got him, when you moved your arm out of the box due to having pins and needles he would scream til you put it back in again! After a few nights tho he was happy in his box next to our bed. Our other 2 that we had as pups were put in crates next to the bed and yes the cried a little but after some reassurance they soon settles into a routine. I couldn't leave a crying pup downstairs all night, i'd feel bad for it.

Many, many years ago an aunt had a child who would not sleep alone. She eventually devised a system which worked but would no doubt horrify people today.
Place child in cot and sit in a chair alongside. Put your arm through the bars and pat his back for a looong time until he finally falls asleep. Gradually slow the rate of patting until your hand is just resting on his back. Gently swap hand for the large book that you have waiting at your side. Creep away quietly leaving book in place !!!

Nothing horrifying there have done ti loads of times, but usually using a teddy or bunching the duvet.

When I had my second child I was mid divorce and my daughter of 3 was already sharing my bed, due to the upheaval/upset, so when baby came I set up a cot side on one side of the bed and I slept in the middle with baby one side and toddler the other.

When they felt more secure they both migrated to their own beds in their own rooms.

I have always been brought up with a baby spending at least the first year in cot close to parents bed, yet others have their babies in their own room from the start.

My older child had spent first year in our room and then until 3 in her own.

I've just been looking through the baby section of our local free ads paper. Need a Baby Dan to extend the puppy pen lol
But I found someone selling a 'safebaby sleeper' which apparently is a device to ensure that your baby cannot move during the night and will stay sleeping in the same, safe position. I realise that people want the best for their baby, but surely this is taking things a step too far. It was this thinking that made me comment about the possible reaction to putting a book against a sleeping baby.
I'm afraid that I woke up quite a few times with a baby in bed with me and a love bite on the side of my boob, where I had brought them into bed to feed them and dozed off, baby had then fallen off the nipple and continued to suck during the night haha

Babys like the comfort of being in one position (quite often all bunched up) as its as they were in the womb. Letting baby sleep in bed with you is discouraged nowadays.Nobody means to roll on their baby but going into a deep sleep after sleepless nights with bubba is all too common and sadly preventable accidents do happen.

Baby playpens are ideal for containing dogs and puppies. :-)

Just googled safababy sleeper thingy I can now see what is meant by stopping baby move. Basically it is a divider  put at the babies feet t across the cot that stops baby wriggling down the cot ie babies feet on the division as if you are cutting the cot in 2.
I can see how it could keep baby feeling secure when wrapped up
Not only does my puppy prefer sleeping in my room, so did my children as babies. Yep both of mine slept in the bed with me. In the case of my daughter from birth to about 3 I would never have got any sleep if not.
I know the risks have always been debated

> I too would cut out the bed time rice pudding - as said too much sugar

When we got bramble (bernese) her breeder gave her some tesco value rice pudding at bed time. We carried on with it and never had a problem with her waking in the night. When she got to the stage when she no longer needed it she was really miffed as she absolutely loved it. Bramble was happy to be on her own at night - she loved her bed and got grumpy when you tried to move her to go for a last wee. All our other dogs have slept in a bedroom either with us or one of our daughters as baby puppies - now they all sleep in the kitchen or they did until miss bossy boots the petit started pinching Bramble's bed so now she wants through with us again- age 7!!

I never left them on their own with the big dogs when they were tiny pups either - mainly because Bramble was so big and clumsy - but I liked them to be supervised until they were a few months old so I wouldn't have a pup crated overnight with an adult dog.

I swear, my first pup made 1 whimper noise as we went upstairs on the first night and then I didn't hear a single thing from her.

The second pup only 10 weeks younger than the first, cried on and off for at least the first week when he was left at night. Not full crying, but whimper whimper noises for about an hour each night.

He soon settled in with a settled tummy after his tea, towels in his crate, cuddles and being let out during the night. I don't think he was particularly happy in that first week but I don't think he was distressed either.

I did every learn to switch the lights off in the rooms downstairs as the night progressed before I went to bed, so all I ended up switching off was the light from the TV screen. If for the last hour you leave the pup in his/her crate to settle and sleep during this time, then knocking the dim-est light off and creeping upstairs works a treat as there is not much disturbance to wake the pup up and effect they have settle themselves. It's not something that you need to keep up for long as they soon get used to the routine and take no notice when you leavde

A few things have all ready been suggested.    I know that many people say to bring the newby into the bedroom with you but I have to say that I have never done this and have been against doing it.....where possible !!!  Until recently.........
I had a similar problem with two of mine at different times.    The first, we got over it very quickly by taking the advice of a dog trainer and that was to ensure that the wee pup is 'sensibly' tired enough at the end of the evening.   Just an hour or so before bedtime, have a good inter-active play with him.
You could also try feeding him his last meal of the day before bedtime....feed, toilet after half an hour or so and bed.

We caged ours at night and what really worked for the one pup, was our finding a large sheet/bed spread and covering four of the five exposed sides with the sheet (ie over the roof and draped down the back and two sides...leaving the front open.  So as to make a tent or a den)
After having two weeks of solid crying and waking up every few hours, we couldn't believe what a difference such a simple thing made.  Slept straight through.

However, with my other girl, we found that we had to put the cage in the room with us - we had tried everything else believe me.  After two days, we moved the cage closer to the bedroom door, another day a bit closer etc.  Eventually the cage was out of our room and we kept the cover over it still.
End of problem!!!

You have to feel sorry for them, one minute they are snuggled up to Mum and have their brothers and sisters to play with, snuggle up to and be comforted by.....then a total stranger takes them away,  a long journey then dumped into somewhere he has never seen before !!!!!

Hope things get better - they will, just give it time.

Yeah I did the same with ours - put a large blanket over the crate so only the front was open.

Neither of mine slept upstairs at all - to me, it is just asking for a bad habit to be formed.
They don't understand why it's ok to sleep upstairs one day and not another.

They are bound to be unhappy for the first night, or a few for some, but longer than this would suggest something else in the routine or pups life is not right.

> Neither of mine slept upstairs at all - to me, it is just asking for a bad habit to be formed.
> They don't understand why it's ok to sleep upstairs one day and not another.

My son slept in my bed for the first two years as it was the only way I could get any sleep. However now at the age of 19 he is quite happy sleeping on his own. Just as babies become more independent as the grow so do puppies. You just have to move them out of the bedroom gradually. I have eight dogs now and all of them at one time or another has slept in my room and now only one does. And that is because we both like her there.

I can't understand why your dog sleeping in the bedroom is a "bad habit." Could you explain?

> Neither of mine slept upstairs at all - to me, it is just asking for a bad habit to be formed.
> They don't understand why it's ok to sleep upstairs one day and not another.

I'm not sure why this thinking still persists. Have you ever tried it?

Denying a puppy comfort, or allowing it to become distressed seems counterproductive if your aim is to raise a happy, healthy confident puppy. Spending a week or two in your bedroom will often fast track a puppy as it allows you to teach them to settle and they can teach you their timings.  Most puppies will need the toilet before the whole night is through and it's very useful to know how long they can last so that when they start sleeping downstairs you can set your alarm for a time before they are fully awake.  It's much better to sneak a sleepy puppy out for a pee as you can get them back to bed more easily.

If you have no experience of it, it's also worth mentioning that a young puppy will be learning to settle in their bed wherever it happens to be placed - the location isn't really relevant.  They form an attachment to a blanket, a fleece, a box, a crate or other bed and as long as you've taught them that it's a safe place where they are expected to sleep then moving it back downstairs will not impact on them at all.  Most puppies are carried up and down the stairs for their own safety so they've genuinely no idea where they are :)  I have a crate upstairs and another downstairs to make life easier for me but I move some of the pups bedding down with me every morning and back up again later.

Can't bear to hear young pups or babies crying. Crying is an audible signal something is wrong, it's not to annoy you!! It's not personal if a pup cries!! I hate this idea that youngsters sit there thinking " I want to take over this house" or are "strong willed" Pups don't cry in the wild as they have everything they need, so in human terms someone's just nicked your car and purse/wallet with all your money, your hungry and have to rely on strangers who don't speak your language. Let's see how long it is before you cry!!! I'd give myself 12 hours tops!! Their just babies, crate with open door with a penned section for toileting,something that smells of me and something of the breeders has always worked for me. Pups are kept in eye sight of other dogs but never in the crate.  

>After having two weeks of solid crying and waking up every few hours, we couldn't believe what a difference such a simple thing made.  Slept straight through.

       How cruel.

>You have to feel sorry for them, one minute they are snuggled up to Mum and have their brothers and sisters to play with, snuggle up to and be comforted by.....then a total stranger takes them away,  a long journey then dumped into somewhere he has never seen before !!!!!

EXACTLY!

To me its about priorities. What does this pup need to learn most, and soonest.

For me, that is bonding with me, becoming confident in my home and with me in general, and potty training.

Having a pup sleep with you, or if more convenient, sleeping in the same room as the pup, wherever that happens to be, to me, helps achieve these goals most efficiently.

Once you HAVE a confident pup who is well bonded to you (in a healthy rather than desperate and needy way, because they are terrified of being left!), then it is a relatively simple matter to teach them to cope on their own, as you are starting with an already happy confident dog.

Starting out teaching a pup to cope on his or her own with an anxious, clingy, desperate puppy - crazy!

I think forcing puppies to sleep alone, away from you, is pure and simple, setting them up to fail, and WHY would you make that one of the very first experiences they have in your home?

Well said, Theemex.