I'm not going to mention any names as to not give them publicity, but I bet many of you have received an email today from a website offering you to advertise your stud dogs and litters of pups.
It's scary enough that the website is still around, with so many dodgy adverts on it, but reading the mail tells me that a radio advertising campaign is planned! So are they really going to advertise on the radio and encourage people to offer their pet dogs at stud? That I find seriously scary. A super quick check of the website right now took me to an advert for a Cavalier listed as available for stud. First of all the photo looks like the dog ha just had a mud bath, but worst of all is "Scores: Annual health check by my vet, clear eye certificated." Well that's okay then, then we know all's well!!!! Great vet who doesn't need to use an MRI scanner even! Oh and "Available for use with KC and non KC". Several of the other Cavaliers looks GREAT as well, fully vaccinated! Some even wormed and "flead"! How wonderful!! Groan....... And Joe Public thinks the unhealthy Cavaliers come from the show breeders? Isn't THIS something for Jemima to pick up on??? RADIO adverts planned to encourage people to breed from any dog, whether health tested or not?

Only good thing I can say about the site is that yay, they do not know Belgian Shepherds exist as neither Belgian Shepherd nor Malinois appears in any of their menus -thank goodness. On the other hand if I wanted to offer a Papillon for stud I could quickly make some money as there are several "Wanted" ads -I could even get to mate him to a Jack Russell and be paid well for it! :(

THIS is why there are so many unhealthy pedigree dogs out there! People trying to make money out of something they have NO idea about.

*slowly begins to smack head on wall*

You are kidding me.

This is just taking my breath away - and not in a good way!

*shakes head in despair*

That is awful, I hope the KC steps in and stops the radio campaign.

There are enough unethical breeders out there without encouraging any more to jump on the band wagon.

> There are enough unethical breeders out there without encouraging any more to jump on the band wagon.

And more than enough puppies too! :-(

I wouldn't hold my breath about JH being too concerned. The latest DT article proves she considers that people who are anti deliberate cross breeding are verging on being racist!! I ask you!!! No matter the worry is completely incompatible breeds are being crossed, producing offspring that are at best, not as predicted and at worst, a complete behavioural and physical disaster. It's apparently OK providing they are being bred by 'good breeders'.

> she considers that people who are anti deliberate cross breeding are verging on being racist!!

LOL Can it be any worse that being a Nazi in her eyes? :)

Intriguing. Who has enough money to fund a radio ad?
Oh don't tell me, is it the same folk who were advertsing pet shop puppies a few years ago? Why, they must be rolling in it! (and also fairly desperate for new blood). *roll eyes*

> That is awful, I hope the KC steps in and stops the radio campaign.
>
>

I don't think the KC can do much about it.

> That is awful, I hope the KC steps in and stops the radio campaign.
>

I'm not sure but it may be the advertising campaign planned will be for the radio station rather than any particular advertisements or advertising sections but even so I don't see what the KC could do as there is nothing wrong in advertising your dog, kennel or whatever and it is not against any of its rules.  Their publications would be seriously wrong footed if it was :) 
Soldiering on with campains and education regarding where and how to source a responsible breeder is their role I would say.

*sigh*

Surely the KC should contact the Radio Station involved and tell them this is not the way to go and the battle going on to produce pups from ethical breeders, not encouraging every Tom Dick and Harriet to mate Fifi to Fido up the road just because they advertised on the radio.

I'm not sure but it may be the advertising campaign planned will be for the radio station rather than any particular advertisements or advertising sections

It is the particular dog website (sure most people can work out which one, the clue is male dogs) asking people to place adverts for stud dogs that will advertise on radio to get more people to use their site. Anyone who wants to see the e-mail PM me your email address and I will send it on.

I dont think JH will care as its not dogs being bred because of their looks ;)

I went onto that website a while ago and looked at my breed I was disgusted by how many unhealth tested and not standard dogs were being offered.

Our Dogs web site have a banner advertising this site !!!  have written to Our Dogs saying I am not buying their paper anymore and the sad thing is there is already someone seeking a stud dog for my breed

it just gets worse.....

Had another email from them so chose to reply in the vein of please don't contact me again your encouraging irresponsible breeding, as those who are looking to breed should research for a stud dog within breed circles.

This was the reply:
"Which in turn encourages inbreeding which is rife amongst those circles.

, so I answered in more detail.  That casual breeding ends with the huge number of dogs in rescue for which the breeder takes no responsibility etc, no health testing etc.

So the mails are not automated ones, so others may like to reply???

Someone there has a sense of humour.

I sent them one of the comparison charts of Backyard Breeder vs The Responsible breeder http://www.ktcampbell.com/taji/rbvsbyb.htm

and got this reply:

"Ok thankyou, we will now cease trading"

Now let's not all hold our breath.

Good work Barbara. Maybe somebody should take them to task about their Cavalier stud adverts? Don't see how they can excuse that. (Can't do much at the moment as I am home in Sweden confined to using an ultra slow netbook that I can hardly see on and forgot my reading gasses in the UK! so avoid mails as much as possible.)

Marianne whilst you may be able to have a little fun in exchanging emails with the owner of this site I doubt if you will change their advertising policy.

Despite their grand claims to be "Voted the number one stud dog advertising site" they are not that popular and they probably need all the subscribers they can get.

I have also had an e-mail about their site, not impressed!, but I am shocked at some of the people you wouldn't expect to advertise there, one even being  Championship show judges! Luckily most are NOT advertising with them and mostly pets that are.

Just in response to the OP and one of the advertisers on that site. I have just looked briefly on there. I see that someone is advertising their cavalier and invites KC and NON KC bitches. Said person is a KCAB - surely you can't be if you partake in the breeding of NON KC reg puppies ?!!!

If you can prove it, inform the KC - surely they would have to act upon the information and remove them from the KCAB lists.  I would have no hesitation in doing so.

I wonder if there is a clause whereby all litters you breed yourself must be KC reg to be a KCAB, but nothing stipulated re who your stud dog is mated to ? Only asking as it seems ludicrous that someone would advertise that they welcome NON KC reg bitches but at the same time say they are a KCAB... it is kind of asking for trouble!

> I have also had an e-mail about their site, not impressed!, but I am shocked at some of the people you wouldn't expect to advertise there, one even being  Championship show judges! Luckily most are NOT advertising with them and mostly pets that are.

Ever positive me is thinking maybe just maybe few responsible people are advertising there so if they get calls from pet bitch owners they can educate and ask about health results etc... Same as some people advertise on the puppy sites so they get to talk to people looking for a puppy and educate what they should be looking for and asking.

I know of a person who let their show winning dog to be used on few "pet quality/non show" bitches (with health tests) as they said these people have decided to breed so rather they used healthy, good quality male&got support&learned from somebody knowledgeable... I can kind of see logic there but not sure I agree.
This is a very  popular "pet" breed and loads of puppies being born every year...

Noora - totally agree with your post.  If I have a stud enquiry the first questions are about health testing etc, some will listen to help/advice but many don't - but we all know they will go to the dog down the road who may be un-registered, not health screened etc.  Only last night I had an enquiry from the owner of an unregistered bitch, who apparently had a hip score of 7 and a clear eye test, apparently his uncle was a vet and said she was in perfect health to have a litter, if they also can't put people on the right lines, what chance do we stand!

So would we be better off letting them use our tested dogs?  A huge debate there I'm sure. 

N.B. We won't let our dog be used with anything other than a health tested bitch of the same breed.

If someone who doesn't show but has a KC reg health tested bitch AND is intent on breeding healthy, true to type examples of their breed, always seeking to improve on what they already have - hence their conscientious decision to seek out a health tested show quality stud dog, then why on earth would anyone object ? Widening the gene pool will benefit every breed in existence, so operating a closed shop to show dogs and bitches only, is not the way forward ... in my humble opinion.

If someone who doesn't show but has a KC reg health tested bitch AND is intent on breeding healthy, true to type examples of their breed, always seeking to improve on what they already have - hence their conscientious decision to seek out a health tested show quality stud dog, then why on earth would anyone object ?

1. How would they KNOW they were true to type without showing?
2. Surely the way to go about finding a good stud dog is not being encouraged to find one after listening to an advert on the radio......

I would rather advertise on a site that DOES expect all the health testing that is required. i.e. Champdogs. Yes! you may educate some people but most are advertising their stud dogs at cheap prices hence the ones that don't give a damn will only look at the cheapest stud not the one that is being health tested. The more that advertise with them supports their web pages being viable. I would say that the majority that advertise are advertising for money purposes not for quality and health. Ells-Bells, do you believe that that person that enquired will NOT go and still mate her bitch?

You can learn a lot by attending dog shows ... and by having a breed mentor who DOES show - not everyone has the confidence or the desire to show !
I am not referring to the ridiculous radio adverts - my remark is entirely in relation to non show people who health test their bitches and whom are interested in improving on their stock.
What about the gene pool ? For the greater benefit of all breeds it is my opinion that responsible/caring breeding should not be regarded as something only people who show their dogs on a regular basis can do.
The poor breeders will 9.9 times out of 10 use the nearest dog available, regardless of anything else, so leave them to it, but don't tar all non show breeders with the same brush... there are some decent ones out there, maybe not many, but there are. There are also some very poor show breeders out there too ! Every case is individual.

but don't tar all non show breeders with the same brush... there are some decent ones out there, maybe not many, but there are. There are also some very poor show breeders out there too ! Every case is individual.

There are bad breeders in all categories, but to breed with NO intent of showing OR working, that is nothing but back yard breeding/puppy farming as the only purpose left is to sell.  Responsible breeding is not a single exercise, it's but one part of an entire package.

Thank goodness not everyone is as closed minded as you then !

I think you'll find most people would agree with me....

Maybe amongst the regular posters on here yes.  So, hypothetical situation - who is more the puppy farmer - the non show person, who health tests their stock and who has maybe one litter  per year/every two years, or a show person who also health tests but maybe churns out 5 + litters per year ...? Of course the figures could be switched around - both ways can be used as real life examples.....
Can you not understand how closed minded you sound labelling anyone who doesn't show, a PUPPY FARMER ? Do you actually know what a puppy farmer is ? I can think of a couple of show breeders who churn out pups like no-ones business, pups are reared in outside kennels with little socialisation... but hey they show some of their dogs so they aren't puppy farmers !!!!!!!!
It is attitudes like yours that give JH a field day btw. Very sad to see.
I need some fresh air lol my blood is at risk of starting to boil.

>Do you actually know what a puppy farmer is ?

A puppy farmer is someone who breeds puppies purely to sell, regardless of the number of litters or the conditions they're reared in; they're not breeding a litter to have a puppy for themselves to carry on their line. Nor are their breeding animals ever independently assessed.

To AlisonGold - sadly I think he will find someone to mate his bitch to, she was in season so didn't leave himself much time anyway, I personally think he'll go down the 'doodle' line as it would appear that they are often 'marketed' to be used at stud for other breeds on certain websites.

Ells-Bells. And this is why the site should not be used by reputable breeders. There are stud adverts for Cockerpoos, Goldendoodles and the like. Why would a responsible breeder want to be connected with them for?

hi goldmali
Had the email and checked for SBT there's one on there that's for stud and its brown and advert says rare colour as never seen one this colour anywhere
Give me strength on another its says requirements for bitch to be discussed "rolleyes"

Nessa

Not looked at the site in depth to see 'designer studs' offered, have to say I don't even want to look at them either.  You're right, I think people should stay away - it'll be interesting to see if many people will renew their memberships when the time comes.

In a breed with relatively small numbers it would not bother me one bit if the owner didn't work or show their dogs as long as health tests and temperaments were excellent.  I know many top show people who use dogs that would never ever be seen in the ring but who have produced a number of champions!

Not everyone who wants a certain breed want to show or work their dogs.  I wouldn't wish our working lines who are true workers on any "pet" person.

Just looked at the site and interestingly most males in my breed have been purchased in the first instance from one off or BYB types...probably advised to "make some money back" from their purchase.
Worryingly there is one ad offering the dogs services for free...no, not to prove him, but to give him an "active life" :-(

Im amazed to see that the majority have no health screening results and many state "jabs up to date" as their only claim to fame.

In a breed with relatively small numbers it would not bother me one bit if the owner didn't work or show their dogs

The breed in question had over 8000 pups registered 2010!

Maybe but your comment read to me that you meant all breeds and not just this one breed, but that is just how it came over to me, so if I've read it wrong then I agree for a breed like that it would need to have more, but what work does the SBT do these days?

I did mean all breeds initially BUT figured you had a fair point (although I'd still say that it would be foolish for anyone to do a mating of two parents where NEITHER is shown, and for any breeder to NOT show or work, full stop -it's a totally different scenario to occasionally see the need to use a dog not shown as to not having any involvement in the dog fancy at all, yet keep breeding) -but I will never agree that a breed in where over 8000 pups are registered each year need to breed from parents that aren't shown, by breeders who do nothing but breed. Breeding isn't the hobby, breeding is part of the hobby of being in DOGS.

As for SBTs, or any other breed. Well if they don't have a work function in today's society, then the breed involvement does need to be showing, doesn't it? You only need to look at the most popular breeds to be able to spot a pet bred one as the looks DO change when the breeders don't show. It's the same with the working lines but at least there they have an actual purpose (and part of what the breed is) and don't just breed to sell.

Well, thankfully there are plenty of open minded folk in my breed - hence why I have recently been able to mate my home bred CHAMPION SIRED bitch to a beautiful show bred boy with a fabulous pedigree - owned and bred by someone who has been in the breed (breeder/exhibitor/judge) for 30 + years.
I think it is quite clear from my previous comments that I do not agree with pet dogs and bitches being mated together with no care or thought other than how quickly they can sell the puppies - with no intention of keeping one back, probably no affix, obviously no health testing and quite possibly no KC reg.  This is the image that some show folk have of everyone who doesn't show. I do not fit into that cateorgory thank you and always choose a show dog for stud, or at least a dog with an excellent show pedigree. All my pups are endorsed - including ones I keep for myself (obviously I lift it if and when I intend to have a litter) . I am possibly going to lift one on a bitch that I sold (first time ever) that has been shown though, she has clear health tests, but just because she has been shown it is not an automatic action on my part.... I will decide when all factors have been considered. My own girls have a maximum of TWO litters (foundation bitch had only one litter of two bitches to a champion stud and I kept both bitches) - how on earth could anyone label me a puppy farmer, simply because I do not have the confidence to show ? Maybe if mine were a less competitive breed I may have felt differently,but showing my breed is not for the faint hearted imo. But I always have my breeds best interests at heart 100 % in every decision I make.

Oh yes and I am also a member of my breed club - for which I was proposed and seconded by two longstanding members :-)

> Oh yes and I am also a member of my breed club - for which I was proposed and seconded by two longstanding members

That is good but lots of pet dog owners are involved in breed clubs, and do very useful work for them serve on committees etc, but I still would not see that as necessarily an indication that their dog is suitable for breeding so we will have to continue to disagree I think :)

Being a member of  my breed club - not a breed club that just any owner of that breed can become a member of, btw - ie. proposed and seconded by two reputable show breeders ... plus everything else I have already stated (first class show pedigrees, clear health test results, excellent temperaments etc etc )  does not indicate a backyard breeder. You are more than welcome to continue to disagree, but it is all rather silly and narrow minded beyond belief.

> but it is all rather silly and narrow minded beyond belief.

I have an unashamed belief that dogs should be demonstrated to be fitting the standard before breeding, yes :) so no we shall not agree.
I still don't see the relevance of breed club membership.
I don't know any club that does not welcome pet owners.   People are nonimated for membership not an endorsement to breed their dogs. 

Not showing because the breed is "very competitive" is a poor excuse. Like everything in life, you win some, you loose some, and you learn a lot.
Also, a "excellent show pedigree" means next to nothing. Neither does "CHAMPION SIRED".
The dogs should be good examples of the breed, and you can only prove that if you show.