My Border Collie girl is just on six months old this week; let her out dog-proof area of garden this morning and she went ape - barking continuously. On investigation, found one gate open; I got the "what if's", panicked & rang vet for appointment to have her spayed on Wednesday. I can unmake this and, after reading previous comments on the subject, that is my intention. Only one of my 3 previous BC bitches was spayed, and that was age 12 for pyometra - none were bred from and I hated keeping them in for 6 weeks of the year so thought I would go with "consensus" and spay before season - most Charities do this as a matter of course, don't they? Am delighted to have stumbled on this site, so helpful and informative, and it's great that the dog world has changed very little since my dog/Ob days, which is going back a bit! So please help me out; has anyone had a positive experience of early spaying? I feel incontinence would be more upsetting for Pip than for me, she's so clean.

Definitely a no from me, and get a padlock for the garden gate. 

When she is in season simply supervise her garden time after checking it's secure from interlopers.

And a no from me never neuter before a dog or bitch is fully mature that will be about 2.

Would be a big no from me too

http://www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf

Another big no from me.  We have done it in the past but never again...if mine are spayed then this generally happens once they are fully mature.  I had one bitch spayed at 18months because she was having major problems with her season that would not end and was at high risk of getting pyometra.

Definitely not, they have to mature else they are a juvenile trapped in an adults body, some can also become fearful. I am not sure if there is any difference within breeds.
There was a pros and cons article in Dogs Monthly November 2008 ( not sure if it can be accessed on line)

I also say NO to early spay/neuter,those sex hormones influence so much more in the growing pup than reproduction.

Unfortunately vets see this type of surgery as a source of regular income and don't give out the info for owners to make an informed decision.

Well done for coming and asking here first.

Had it done once at 4.5 mths. Bitch is now 9. She's never matured mentally, is nervous and all other bitches hate her as they can't work out what she is -a strange puppy or abnormall adult? Feel really sorry for her. Never again.

Sorry have to agree with other posters - read partic the article referred to you can have so many issues with early neutering it just isn't worth it.  Higher incidents of some cancers, extra growth in legs which can put joints under stress in later years, lack of hormones needed to 'mature' both physically and mentally, bitches can have urinary problems (ie they can become incontinent).  All in all there's nothing positive going for it.  Oh the reason charities do it? Well they rehome to people who can't be trusted not to breed from the dogs and they neuter them so they can't - simple as that.  Nothing about the welfare of the dogs unfortunately.

When I took my youngest to the vets as a puppy, the vet we saw said if I was thinking of spaying her then they recommended that she have a season first. I was very surprised to hear this come from a vet!

Think a few are beginning to realise if they do not give the client the truth about neutering, both pros & cons, then sooner of later they are going to get sued.

Definitely a no from me! :-)

A massive "Thank You" to everyone for your good advice and helpful comments - the appointment will be cancelled on Monday!!
I think panic was because I haven't kept a bitch since 1988, my last two were male "rescues", so I'd forgotten the drill. It won't be that difficult to keep her virgo intacta - the gates have padlocks, just a matter of getting people to use them.... Have a feeling I will want advice on modern "deterrents" when she comes into season as have three neighbours with male dogs - fingers crossed. Once again, thank you all.

this is making me feel really bad as i had jess spayed before her first season at 8 months.the vet said it could be done at 5months but she seemed so tiny i waited till 8.id read loads of pros and cons on line and in the end went with the vet.so far there dont seem to be any problems,so i hope she will be ok.
Now gwen has reached 8 months and a friend who feels really strongly about waiting till after a season,to have a bitch spayed,persueded me to wait.before having her spayed,which is actually making me feel worse about jess.All I can do is not make the same mistake again.

If Jess is fine, don't worry about it colliepam, problems don't happen with every dog spayed early, but unfortunately it can be pot luck, the problem is vets don't give owners the true facts of what can go wrong with early spaying and the affects it can have, many people with incontinent bitches from early spaying were not told of this side effect. Some dogs are affected many aren't, it looks like Jess is fine so don't beat yourself up. :-)

With Gwen you know to wait that little bit longer to cut down any risks.

>It won't be that difficult to keep her virgo intacta

Unless you have resident male dogs then it really isn't difficult to keep a bitch chaste; she'll either be secure indoors or outside in the garden with you in attendance (remember that many unwanted litters are sired by Romeos who can jump!). Never outdoors alone is the motto to go by.

thanks,,one lives and learns,I did wonder why theyd changed it as my last two collies  were spayed after their first season.There was a time when one trusted vets(and doctors?)now it seems its best to question everything!

I have always waited until after the first season to have any bitch spayed, sometimes I have waited for 2 or 3  seasons, however with my last little bitch now 18 months old, I had no choice. For serious medical reasons she had to be spayed at 6 months. I must admit I have not seen any growth problems and she is fully accepted by the rest of the dogs and very full of herself, not at all timid, so I haven't seen any bad results although it is still early days. Fingers crossed there are no problems later in her life. At least I still have her as without the spaying I doubt she would have survived.

>At least I still have her as without the spaying I doubt she would have survived.

Pre-pubertal spaying/castration for emergency medical reasons is a different matter to routine pre-pubertal spaying/castration.

Too true JG, I never neuter except for reasons of health but there is no doubt I would not stand my ground if my dogs health was at risk it would be neuter and hope.

Sorry if my post touched a nerve Colliepam but I agree 100% with Carrington - don't beat yourself up over it; we can only do what we think is best at the time and I'm sure your girl will be fine. My previous bitches were not spayed but I couldn't prevent the cancer that ended Nell's life nor the pyo that made it necessary to spay Dinah at 12. You can't legislate for everything! Just enjoy them both, and if in doubt do what I did, ask those who know from experience.

thankyou pippasmum thats strange.my first bitches  werent spayed either,one was fine,but poor Kelly had several mammary tumours removed,and also had to be spayed aged 9 due to pyometra,then another tumour appeared aged eleven,and i had to have her pts soon after as she lost the use of her legs.,Its true what you say,you do the best you can with the knowledge youve got,at the time.Im so glad I found this forum,people are so generous with help and advice,a godsend when you want the best for your dogs.
Incidently,I love the name Nell!

colliepam. Don't beat your self up you are not alone. Would never neuter again unless for medical reasons, the changes in one of our boys has been dramatic & saddens me every day. It's the one thing I disagree with our vet about, just because he charged a bitch on heat loose on the beach,I'm still told 'it had to be done!'.

how awful!cant blame the poor dog!

AS a trainer and person who is going to breed collies and has lived with them for years now, spaying prior to a season is a huge no no. Both for behaviour and physical developement. Physically the dog hasn't finished developing and it can easily lead to problemslater in life such as incontinence(which one of mine has, spayed at 6months!!) but emotionally some just never mature and it can lead tofear aggression developing.

If I go through my client list and look at those with fear aggression 90-95% were neutered at 6 months. That said I neutered both my bitches at 6 months over 10 years ago when I worked at the vets as I thought it was the right thing to do. These days I would never do it again, I would wait for a season and spay 3 months later unless breeding or unless I felt the bitch would emotionally benefit from another season and time to mature, some do. Hormones also affect bone developement and vets don't tell clients about the negative side effects physically such as urinary incontinence. Orthe higher incidence of fear reactions developing and that some dogs constantly attract other entire dogs due to neutering.

Timing of neutering is very important and as I stress to clients, I'm not against it lets just time it right. So padlock the gate, put signs on it so family can't forget and relax!! 

Another no from me, if for behavioural or medical reasons you need to spay / neuter than it is best left until at least 18 months old, if not 2 or 3 years. Those hormones do a lot more than bring on seasons etc. :-)

The pros and cons of neutering and early neutering:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/144600/EVIDENCE-BASED-APPROACH-TO-NEUTER-SURGERY-AND-INTRODUCTION-TO-EVIDENCE-BASED-MEDICAL-PRACTICE

One of mine was spayed at 9 months, before first season to try to prevent cancer incidence and we have never had any problems with her. She is now 7 years old and has the best doggy manners of any of my dogs and is not at all nervous. Second one spayed after second season is continually anxious but again had no problem with spay - she is now 6. Our youngest one is 18 months - still entire and her mood changes during season are a complete pain!

Thank you for posting link Lurchergirl. I've waded through every word and the summation would appear to indicate that colliepam got it right after all!  Despite this Pippa will remain intact for now - I think the quote goes "There are lies, damned lies and statistics"

That study includes cats in the statistics and as cats are routinely done at 6 months without issue? not a cat person so unsure i think a study just for the canines would be better.

no from me////

That would be a no from me aswell!
I believe in allowing a bitch to mature and feel that my current girl benefited enormously from the two seasons she had before I had her spayed. She's not reg'd, has conformation iregularities, she was a crabby annie just before and during her seasons and she bled very heavily so spaying was deffinatly going to happen both for practicle reasons and for general health reasons.
But the amount she calmed down and her behaviour after those seasons and then the spay made me completely sure that was the right path for her. She is now a super little girl with a sweet and cheeky disposition that no one can not be charmed by her both people and other dogs alike! :)