Well I could have helped myself to any number of dogs from the benches and walked off with them today as no one bothered to ask for my removal order...in fact no one was even on the gate.
The KC say we MUST bench our dogs but they seem not to care if thier security is abismal. I love Paington it is such a nice venue and a relaxed atmosphere with the "in-out" rings working so well. But this is just plain silly.
Anyway I did not remove the wrong dog and we had a lovely day catching up with friends and a nice early finish. Oh and Vino had a 4th  when I knew she was not to the judges liking as she is a bit big so I was happy. Her 1/2 brov had a nice 2nd and my friend a 1st and another friend the RCC so all in all a good day out.

It is really surprising how lapse some shows are, yet others are really hot on showing/giving up removal passes when exiting showgrounds. From memory WKC & those shows at Stafford even look in the boots, of cars for any hidden dog, which in my book is what ought to happen.

To be honest I don't think giving up a removal pass when leaving the showground would stop someone stealing your dog if they really wanted to. I don't see the point of it at all.

There would be many ways to get a removal pass. Enter a dog but don't take it, even entering it NFC but not taking it. The person that could steal a dog would have no qualms about lifting someone removal pass out their bag. Most people keep their removal passes in their show bag, often in the front pocket, and they often leave their bag on the bench too.

It's mickey mouse security, more concerned with getting money for dogs entering the showground than actually protecting your dog. Personally even though I usually travelled to shows alone I would never leave my dogs unattended. I would always ask someone next to me to keep an eye on them while I nipped to the loo.

I actually enjoy the more relaxed shows like Border Union, it's up to me to ensure my dogs safety :-)

You still shouldn't be allowed to leave the show without showing your removal pass if you've got a dog with you.

> You still shouldn't be allowed to leave the show without showing your removal pass if you've got a dog with you.

I agree, because it's in the rules that this is what you must do. But it would be naive to think that insisting everyone shows a pass means your dog is safe to be left unattended on a bench. Personally I don't really see the point of removal orders for the reasons I've already given. But yes, while we have them you should have to show them.

Well done Merlot

The first time I went to Paignton, in '08, they were so hot on security i couldn't even get IN the car park without my entry pass (there were long queues) - as for getting out without a removal order we'd probably have been frisked!!

I wonder if (and why) they've changed their security stance...

BTW - how was the traffic today?

To be honest I don't think giving up a removal pass when leaving the showground would stop someone stealing your dog if they really wanted to. I don't see the point of it at all.

I agree. It does no good at all. The people checking the passes would not normally even know the breeds. I always have a large show bag with me, that could easily hide one or more toydogs inside. And how is anyone to know it's the right dogs I bring out? It happens quite a lot that I have entered say 3 and only take 2, so when handing over my passes it says 3 dogs but I only take 2 out. I could easily have taken somebody else's. A friend of mine has several times brought a non entered dog when the dog entered couldn't make it  (in season or whatever) -just for the day out. Including to Crufts.  Nobody would ever know it was the wrong dog.

At rabbit championship shows the people checking your removal passes check (or used to at least) them against the rabbits' ring numbers. The ONLY way to play safe with dogs would be to check for microchip numbers.

Windsor last year there was no one checking removals by mid afternoon when I was there.  Anything held at Stafford seems pretty strict.  No one checked us at Crufts this year leaving.  And the previous year I saw someone I know walking OUT with a small travel kennel in their hand (they were only showing a large breed) and in it was a chihuahua that someone from abroad had brought INTO Crufts for them to pick up and no neither party nor the Chi was entered and not once were they challenged.  On the other hand it was like getting out of Alcatraz this year to get to the outside exercise area by hall 5, there was one female security on duty who would not even let 2 people go out with one dog even though they were on the pass as co-owners.

>But it would be naive to think that insisting everyone shows a pass means your dog is safe to be left unattended on a bench.

Absolutely; there's no way to ensure that the dog being taken out is the one named on the removal pass. However someone leaving with a dog and no removal pass should be immediately stopped, which at the moment doesn't happen.

BTW - how was the traffic today?

Traffic was fine. I drove straight in at 9.30am. I also drove out no probs at 2.30pm.
I never put my girlies on the benches, the only time I visit the bench is to collect a ring number...I agree it would be easy to take a dog and mine are always with me or a trusted friend but even so it is a better system than nothing at all....which is what we had today!!
Aileen

Anything held at Stafford seems pretty strict.

Not really -I've often said as all they do is peer inside the car and count the visible dogs, they could easily miss a small dog inside a bag or underneath a seat.

I've only done two general champ shows at Stafford, so I admit it's hardly anything to go on, but when I've had a black dog with me and they couldn't see him (he was lying on the black carpet, in a dark-ish boot) they made me open up and show them.  More strict than any of the others I've been to.

Most of the time there are barcodes on the exit passes.  I don't know if I'm mis-remembering, but do they sometimes scan these?  At Leeds the other week they were just collecting them, making sure you had the right number for the number of dogs you were taking out and it made me realise that now you can download your exhibitor passes, you could actually print off extra copies for more dogs and they'd never know :-(  I naively assumed that was what the barcode was for!!

ETA I've just realised the top statement is totally useless!  Well, it would have been useful if I'd accidentally forgotten my dog... but not to check if I was pinching one!  Not sure why they made me do that!!!

I've never seen passes scanned and I can't think of may that's had barcodes on either -usually it's the passes to get in or the catalogue vouchers. But I tend to go to mainly northern and midland shows so it could be different down south I guess. :)

> But it would be naive to think that insisting everyone shows a pass means your dog is safe to be left unattended on a bench

That is not what i meant in my previous post at all!!!

I'm sure I've seen them scanned once (at LKA maybe), but I certainly could be wrong :-)  I've just looked at my most recent exhibitor passes, so since December last year the few I've entered (LKA, Manchester, Leeds, WKC) all have barcodes on the removal passes.  It would seem sensible if they used them!

>> But it would be naive to think that insisting everyone shows a pass means your dog is safe to be left unattended on a bench
> That is not what i meant in my previous post at all!!!

I know it wasn't and I didn't suggest you said that, I was just making the point the system is useless :-)

I last went to this show 2yrs ago now. I had entered 1 dog and taken 1 dog and left with 1 dog, my dog.
However even then I noticed a lot of people had puppies with them that were too young to enter and they had been left in the car and some even taken into the show(how?) and then they left with no issues. The puppies couldn't of been entered NFC as they were well under 6 months old. So even then the removal pass meant nothing.. :-(

I do wonder how many people have had dogs stolen at a ch show?

> I do wonder how many people have had dogs stolen at a ch show?

Not many I don't think. I have never heard of a case in nearly 20 years of showing. Whilst I do think they should check passes or else why issue them the safety and security of the dog really has to come down to the owner.

We went to Paignton two years ago and last year, our passes were checked on the way out.  Different story at Blackpool this year, no passes checked in or out, someone had brought in a 10 week old puppy in a handbag, it was at our ringside!!!!!!!!

>> I do wonder how many people have had dogs stolen at a ch show?

None at all, or at least I've never heard of a single one.

We also noticed that, i was at the show both monday and tuesday and was also not asked for my removal pass.

> all have barcodes on the removal passes. It would seem sensible if they used them!

I left Paignton at 4pm yesterday and there wasn't a security guard in sight - in fact people were driving all over the car park looking for the way out!

However, they did use a barcode scanner on my catalogue voucher - and it's the first time I've seen that at any show...

Yes I noticed that they scanned the catalogue vouchers and first time that I have seen that.
We were there on Day 1 and nobody checked either our admission or removal passes, but they were only let in 2 cars at a time which obviously caused a hold up.!!

no one aked for my removal pass either at 3 p.m.  oh and i was one of those who drove round trying to find the exit lol

Yes well you were lucky to leave at 3pm, we had to stay for the group.!xxx

> Yes well you were lucky to leave at 3pm, we had to stay for the group

I'd say you were the lucky one then :-)

I found Paignton was quite dissapointing this year, the camp site was awful and the waste disposal site filthy not to mention that I predicted acertain group placings exactly right for the third time oh and our judge judged to FCI standard instead of KC ggrdrrrr lol

i find lack of stands disappointing at Paignton now..........seems to be getting less each year!

Yep there was half the stands of last year, I enjoyed the north Devon show more.

i'd entered ND  , decided it was too hot to go. so didn't also wasn't sure when we'd be in ring