Im in the process of going through my pile of schedules entering shows and the Ch shows were just doing the one entry (PD Mostly because its costly to enter enough with just the one class!) He will be just out of puppy for some opens without classes so ive been entering him in AVNSC junior and PG If we got a 2nd in junior, then went in the PG and stroke of luck (hypothetical) we came 1st. Id be a beaten dog so couldnt go any further. What would you do?

Well if it were me and taking into consideration that there are no J.W. on offer in AVNSC I'd stick to the one class, but then again if anything beats you in the PG class it would most likely beat you in the challenge. So up to you.

I personally would just enter the one class however if you entetred two and were lucky enough to win the first class you could always withdraw from the next class (provided it was not a breed class) to remain unbeaten. Though if you do the opposite and are beaten in the first class then win the second that would be just one of those things, that's why I stick to just one class.

Most of the time I prefer one class per dog. However I am also firmly of the opinion that if the dog is good enough to win, it will win no matter what. Being unbeaten isn't going to suddenly make it better than if it was beaten in one class. It might LOOK good to go in the challenge, but it won't change the outcome. I have on a few (very few) occasions entered 2 and even 3 classes, and when the dog was the best, it obviously won all the classes. It just meant less dogs in the challenge. And after all, if you've won one class and come second in the other, you can still be called back in for consideration for reserve BB/BD or RBOB, depending on what there is.

The KC have recently changed the BOB rules and they now read "Where a breed is separately classified a Best of Breed must be declared from those exhibits which have received a first prize in a breed class at the show." Not sure if this will effect the judges choice if the winning dog goes lame or is withdrawn apparently it will, the judge will no longer be able to call in the dogs they wish to see in the challenge. Nor if it will also effect the AVNSC classes that are usually treated the same as breed classes.

Hi i was just thinking about the unbeaten rule, i've entered Tilly in the Richmond show in Sept i have entered her in a breed class Yearling and the GCD/B would this be the same if beaten.  Not expecting her to win more for experience for the both of us as this is only her second Champ show.
  This is still confusing but one day it should all fall in to place lol

Nessa

> However I am also firmly of the opinion that if the dog is good enough to win, it will win no matter what

I agree. The only time I have regretted entering 2 classes was when beaten in a stakes class and then went on the win BOB and the group judge had previously given my bitch a CC with BOB so I thought I might have had a good chance. After that I never entered stakes classes with an adult dog that may take the ticket. It's a real shame I think when your breed is not represented in the group.

Another thing to consider when entering a young dog in several classes is whether you want people to see it getting beaten or not. An 8 month old that may have a good chance of winning minor puppy, might stand a reasonable chance in puppy but is unlikely to win junior. So you can enter one class and hopefully go home with a red card or enter 3 classes and get progressively worse in each one :-)  Mind you I'm talking about borzois which are very slow maturers.

If you mean you have entered the class for GC in your breed classes then if you are not first you are a beaten dog because the class within the breed classes is judges like any other conformation class - however if you mean you have entered for GC medal Bronze or Silver then it does not count if you fail.

Another thing to consider when entering a young dog in several classes is whether you want people to see it getting beaten or not.

Yes that's one reason for why I prefer to enter one class.

its for dogs that have recieved their GCDS bronze award certificate or above its still on conformation i think,or am i totally out of the box lol

Nessa

Thanks for your replies i think ill just stick to the one entry. Made this mistake at matchnight last week got 1st pd but 2nd junior didnt get to go ahead for BP : ( was mainly for his and my own experience so i wasnt too bothered...

Another thing i seem not to have grasped yet is in groups whats a g1 g2 g3 g4? not sure on how its judged.

Also is my Frenchie puppy better stacked or free standing?

> Another thing i seem not to have grasped yet is in groups whats a g1 g2 g3 g4? not sure on how its judged.
>
>

this is the best of the group going down the line in order of how the judge likes the bob's ~ same as it would be 1st, 2nd 3rd in a class.

a BOB or G1 (if a show being judged on the group system ) would go towards BIS then?

Yes, that's right.

If you win the puppy class and then come 2nd in Junior providing the winner of Junior is not a puppy you can still go through to challenge for best puppy - the rules for puppy are different to adult dogs and providing you are not beaten by another puppy you are eligible to challenge for best puppy in breed or if you have not been in a breed class best in group or best in show.

But the op has stated that at some of the open shows her dog will be out of puppy

Just stating a fact and was replying to LouiseDDB - guess I should have said so. She stated that she won pup but was 2nd in Junior and therefore could not challenge for best puppy.

Yes, I think I realised after. I was a little puzzled when Louise said it was a match, as no match I've been to has Junior, normally puppies & adults with some maybe having veterans too, plus its not 1st & 2nd at matches either. As you know it's 2 dogs going against each other until you get to the last 2...anyway that will be a mystery to me.

Im new to the whole showing thing and its just called matchnight at mine. They have puppywalk, puppy, junior, then open. Just entered both for practise

Sounds like my old ringcraft, they had match night each month, but it wasn't a two against two match, it was run like a small show, with baby puppy, puppy, graduate, open, then class winners competing for best in match, reserve best, best junior etc.

These are all my worst case scenarios  because I'm very much a novice. 

Are you expected to know all these rules in case they happen to you, or is it the stewards duty to work out who should be in which class and call you in there?

The steward will call in the dogs for a challenge for BOB or BP but it is up to the exhibitor to be present in the ring for a class. But steward are human and will make mistakes so it is best to understand the rules yourself so you do not miss out.

For BOB you have to have won a breed class and not to have been beaten in a breed class.  in other words you must have remained unbeaten by another of your breed and to have been given a first place in the breed

For BP you have to have competed and not to have been beaten by another puppy in the breed.

A while since I read this thread so I hope I have not missed the point.