I'll do my best to explain the body language I'm questioning, but you all know I waffle, so please bear with me :)

In context -
When Buster sees a dog that is heading our way, he looks alert, ears forward,  'alert' expression onhis face, tail held half-way loose and 'swishing' (gentle speed, not too slow, but not frantic) I can 'feel' that he is excited/pleased, however he stands still and will wait for the dog to approach us,  (nervous or used to calm the other dog/good manners??) he may take a couple of steps forward.
When the other dog is on a definate appraoch to Buster (but not yet close enough to sniff) Bust will lower his head. It's not low like a 'cowering' or 'submissive' type motion, it looks more like you'd see on a dog that is stalking prey, but his body is not showing any 'stalking' posture - he is fairly 'loose', tail down & loose (didn't notice wagging) and you can feel 'calmness' from him (not sure if I can also feel a bit of uncertainty form him too though). - Oh and his ears are forward and alert, but not in an 'intense' way.

Yesterday we saw a terrier that he's met before. Buster put his head very low this time and the terrier approached us like he was stalking(ish), he had his head low (like Buster) and his movements were slow but not stiff. As they got closer they sniffed towards each other and the little terrier errupted into a very happy looking play invitation (play-bowing from side to side, very 'happy' looking). Bust looked happy but was keeping himself under controll and refrained form jumping aorund like a loony keeping his play-bow very controlled. The lad with the terrier was so chuffed, he said his dog doesn't get to play with others as it's frightened of other dogs so will growl.

I'm now wondering if this 'low head' is a claming signal, to indicate to other dogs that Buster does not mean any harm? It seemed to work like that with the terrier.

I used to think that when he did this is just showed he was a bit nervous of greeting other dogs, but meeting that terrier yesterday, that never seemed the case atall.

He also met a 4month puppy (labradoodle) yesterday. He looked alert when he spotted it, dropped his head, but she was approaching very confidantly so his head came back up to normal (still down a bit as he needs to keep it low to sniff most dogs!) he had a great little play with the pup, but decided her 'zoomies' were too much so laid down to watch her. Bless, he laid on the floor, she was zooming past him, back & forth, every now & then she'd stop to nibble his toes to get him to chase. He was warn out just watching her :-D ( proud moment, the pups owenr comented on how well behaved Buster is :-D )

Another bit of info that may or may not be of any use!! - when Bust is greeting a dog, I keep his lead loose, I also take a step away to the side so Buster is free to turn around (he's very long and if I stand next to him he can't turn properly) to see why a dog is walking to his bum/follow the other dogs bum, LOL. It also helps stop my legs taking the FULL force of a side-ways play-bow

I know it's not explained very well and you can't actually see for yourselfs what I mean, but any ideas on this lowered head?

Been googling images for ages, the closest thing I can find was a pic of, what looked like a, wolf in 'prey drive
However, the writing with it said that prey-drive and PLAY-drive look similar.

Maybe Busters lowered head is a clear signal of playfull intent and that's why the little terrier was happy to come over and play, instead of being afraid??
Maybe he doesn't lower his head so low with more confidant dogs as he can see they are more relaxed about him anyway???

I wish I knew what was really going in thier heads......

Too late to edit my last post, but here is a link to the pic I found that looks most like what Buster does.

It wont let me link directly to just the pic, had to link to the page it was on - it's the 15th pic down and the caption underneath starts with "Stalking behaviour/play or prey mode."

My 10 month pup though not as big as Buster is a hefty 6 stone now....she loves to play and like you I have had to be carefull she does not just rush in and bowl other dogs over with her exuberance... She is usually off lead now as I have started to get a little more control of her mad rushes towards other dogs but now she does the same. She will stand still to greet other dogs waiting for them to approach (Only ones she does not know the ones she knows she rushes up to play) she also lowers her head and I know she is not agressive in the slightest, sometimes she will do the collie creep along the ground towards another dog...mainly towards dogs she often plays with, culminating in a rush and bounce with play bows thrown in for good mesure...she will often lay down for a dog to come to her, and if they are a bit nervy she will roll over onto her back. I think it is an appeasment sign to show the other dog she is no danger to them. She is not a scaredy either as on the odd occasion we have met ...les than friendy...dogs who growl or snap she will just ignore them and walk away. Maybe because she knows her Mum and Granny are there to back her up she is very confident most of the time.
She will rush around and leap right over smaller play mates now in stead of squashing them.....she has squashed a few in her time...and beed sharply told off by said squashed friends!!!..we have now got this under better control.... It is hard with such a big dog allowing some play without danger to a smaller playmate.
her best friend is an 18 month old Goldie with the same mentallity and they have a ball....the Goldie has more stamina though, Vino gets worn out after a couple of dingbat runs in a big circle..so they then lay down and do the bite your leg of games...

Aileen

Brill, thanks Merlot, that's really put my mind at rest. :)

> She will stand still to greet other dogs waiting for them to approach (Only ones she does not know the ones she knows she rushes up to play) she also lowers her head and I know she is not agressive in the slightest, sometimes she will do the collie creep along the ground towards another dog...mainly towards dogs she often plays with, culminating in a rush and bounce with play bows thrown in for good mesure...she will often lay down for a dog to come to her, and if they are a bit nervy she will roll over onto her back.

Ahhh, bless her :-D

> think it is an appeasment sign to show the other dog she is no danger to them

I think your right :) I assumed that Busters slowness in these situations was through being wary, but the way he delt so well with being rushed at by the great dane, and the way he sat calmly down when the collie went mental at him - he appears to be much more confidant then I believed.
I always thogght he had rubbish doggy social skills, but lately he's proving me wrong and seems he really does know how to keep situations friendly and adjust his play/greeting style to suit the other dog.

Bless him, I feel bad for not seeing what a good boy he is.

> She will rush around and leap right over smaller play mates now in stead of squashing them.....she has squashed a few in her time...and beed sharply told off by said squashed friends!!!..we have now got this under better control....

Ahh, bess her :-D  It's great that she is learning to be more carefull in only 10 months!!!

I wish Buster could play off-lead like your girl, I'm sure he could still learn some valuable lessons by being told-off for getting too OTT, but I daren't let him loose to play becasue of his bad elbows - he trips over enough when he's focused on following a scent trail (either land on his face or jar an elbow giving himself a limp ), I'm sure he'd do himself real damage with the freedom to lollop around loose with a dog :(  But still, he's not an energetic dog so is happy with a little play, then a lay-down to watch!

Aren't dogs amazing :-D

Best person to look upis Turid Rugaas for caling signals. I have her book but can't quite find something that exactly matches what you're describing, about right for dog behaviour!!

But to mesounds as though he is lowering his head to indicate that he has no harmful intentions and the lie down could be his way of figuring out the other dog's intentions or trying to calm a boisterous dog down. Either way he's being clever and avoiding trouble. I take it he is a mastiff as I do believe that sometimes big dogs are aware of how big they are and take it slower. Either that or cause they are so big they could just sit on something annoying so no point in stressing out!!!! ; )

> I take it he is a mastif

Yes, he's an English Mastiff. He is very friendly and now he's maturing (coming up to 4yrs old), his patience is showing much more :)
A while ago I had problems with him gettting too over-excited (in a playfull way) when he met dogs. Most people drag thier dogs away from him (just becasue he is big :( ), the lack of interaction has seemed to mean that meeting dogs still had a 'novelty' status up untill fairly recently, but he's getting much calmer now and acting much more grown up, rather than a silly, over-sized puppy :)

I thought his lack of interactions with other dogs had been bad for his socialisation, but he is really showing lately how much he does know about 'the language of peace' :)

I've had a look on-line at Turid Rugaas Calming signals, but not found waht Buster does. I'll have to get some of her books, I love the way she sees the dog-world and it really makes sense :)

Hi ML,

I think Buster Boy is making himself look smaller and less imposing by lowering his head- it's his way of saying to the other dog " It's just me, I'm just a little, friendly mastiff". I think you have to look at the body language of the whole dog- if it was prey drive/stalking he would lower his head too but his whole body would be very tense and clearly focused as though ready for action. His face would look highly focused too. I bet in this case his face looks more relaxed. Also look at how the other dog reacts to what Buster does, that will tell you a lot too.

My dog, a terrier, also lies down when some dogs approach. He seems to do this either with apparently very confident dogs or rather nervous dogs, but not with all dogs. So I think it's what some call an intentional icon- he's acting submissive either to engender confidence in the other dog or to show appropriate respect, both to defuse a potentially tricky encounter. He is not submissive by nature. Clever eh.

> I bet in this case his face looks more relaxed.

Yes, it is relaxed, all of the skin over his head is so loose that it is drooping down over his eyes a bit, if he were to look 'focused' he gets wrinkles on his head that pulls up all the loose skin.

> Also look at how the other dog reacts to what Buster does, that will tell you a lot too.

I struggle with this part as there is always such a mixture of reactions. Some dogs seem so intimidated by him that it doesn't matter how he behaves they will get defensive :( That is why I always used to think that it was Buster that was lacking in social skills.
He used to play-bow at dogs that got nervous and started to get snappy, but that has never worked to show the other dog he means no harm so he no-longer does the play-bow in that sort of situation, he'll calmly sit/lay down (that stilll rarley works :( ).

> My dog, a terrier, also lies down when some dogs approach. He seems to do this either with apparently very confident dogs or rather nervous dogs, but not with all dogs. So I think it's what some call an intentional icon- he's acting submissive either to engender confidence in the other dog or to show appropriate respect, both to defuse a potentially tricky encounter. He is not submissive by nature. Clever eh.

It is clever :-D

Ah, Buster is doing his best. Unfortunately the advantage, or in this case disadvnatge of height cannot be helped. Most dogs do not like being towered over. Remember also that the other dog will watch your reaction and react to that too. But from everything you describe it sounds as though Buster tries as hard as he can to do everything right. The more successes he has the better it will be and, as you say, now he is getting older and less puppyish, his calm approach will help smaller dogs that at first feel overwhelmed by him. I bet that in time you can find some intact bossy terrier girl that falls in love with him and his size (ahem)! My little guy has had some Wolfhound girlfriends and watching them flirt is hysterical.

> My little guy has had some Wolfhound girlfriends and watching them flirt is hysterical.

:-D Fantastic, I bet that is a great sight to see - that is a HUGE size difference!! Bless him - giant girlfriends :)

Hello all, I have just read this post with great interest!......I have a 7 month old male bullmastiff that we have had since 8 weeks old .......he has been a delight in the house and is so well behaved when walking on a loose slack lead on route to our destination......then, well, all hell can break loose ! If and when he sees another dog or person without a dog his ears go back and  he runs in a bouncy manner, often rolling around when he gets to them to say Hi!.....he has never been aggressive and his exhuburance lasts a minute until he has has a good sniff and then he's bored and settles right down....this has 2 issues ....on the lead he can rip your arm out at 7stone......and off the lead he does not listen.....most dog walkers don't mind but I would like advise on if this is normal at his young age ? It also concerns me about when he runs on the lead and the lunge line is at it's limit it snaps him back.....he is such an excitable little guy and loves to socialise but I really wish he would remain calm when he sees new people......What to do ?

> It also concerns me about when he runs on the lead and the lunge line is at it's limit it snaps him back

I have Busters long-line attatched to a chest harnes to avoid any whip-lash type injuries. However, when on a pavement, or greeting new dogs, he's on his standard lead attatched to his collar. You really don't have much physical controll over a large/powerfull dog on a chest harness! But you can slowly train them to get used to it and learn the rules (same rules as a standard lead - NO pulling, taught through treats and refusal to move while there is tension on the lead).

It'd be better to keep him on a long-line for now, so he can't get into the habbit of running up to other dogs. Even being friendly he could get himself in trouble by rushing at a grouchy/reactive dog and he doesn't need bad experiences like that, you need to help him, keep his friednly manner :) (easiest when he only has good experiences with other dogs).

> on the lead he can rip your arm out at 7stone

Hmm, I remember that stage well!!! My dog would also stand up on his back legs and drag me along to greet people 
I got a halti (head harness) to help me control him, it;s so hard to try to teach some manners & calmness when you can't even hold onto them!!
I used the halti, (in ADDITION to his noraml collar & lead) just to help get Busters attention so I could keep him calm when he was greeting other dogs and reward him with treats (bits of cheese) and praise for all good behaviour.
Your dog is still very young and he will find it hard to conrtoll himself around distractions and be on the lookout for fun and action. Lots and lots of patience and training, praise & reward for all good behavior :)

You may find it more helpfull to start a new thread (copy & paste what you have allready written here,), as many people will not read this one, due to the title, so you will miss out on lots of advice.

LOL, so many pups do the I am a friendly meerkat routine, hopping along on two legs to greet their public. It's just so much harder when your meerkat is a mastiff!

I also wonder, and please don't be offended by this, if many dogs of other breeds, find wrinkled faces harder to read and that together with the size makes them extra alarming.

The first time my boy met a bulldog he was freaked out-  think it was a combination of the wrinkled face and the loud snorting noises. However, we got both involved in a game together and after that he was fine.

> I also wonder, and please don't be offended by this, if many dogs of other breeds, find wrinkled faces harder to read and that together with the size makes them extra alarming.

Not offended atall :-) Buster is a big, wrinkly faced, floppy lipped, drool machine - facts are facts! :-D

I think it must be a bit hard for other dogs to figure out. I also wonder how much his floppy lips have to do with causing uncertainty with other dogs? His lips hang way below his jaw-line and being so loose,  it might not be as obvious to other dogs when his lips are loose or tight, so others maybe can't judge very well, from his lips, what his mood/intentions are???

There are so many, very subtle, little things that dogs watch for/give off, that his floppy, wrinkly face must be a bit of a puzzle to some.
That would explain well, why some dogs seem to see him from a distance - run over to greet him, but get frightened/unsure when they see his face.

Ahh, bless him, should have called him Shrek!