How would I put a stop to someone overbreeding?  Or can I?
A person near me has in the last couple of years acquired 6 bitches which he uses for breeding.  He bought the bitches from a terrible site where people get rid of their unwanted pets and he only buys them 1 yr or over and he mates them as soon as they come into season.  He has been known to do back-to-back matings but still the KC register the pups with no problems.  He doesn't health test and sells at top buck to unsuspecting families.  He has in the last month got another bitch and I found out today that she has been mated allready.  This guy is the scum of the earth.  Cares not a jot for the little lives of either the mums or the babies.  Can I do anything?
RSPCA don't want to know as they are fed and watered and sheltered(outside crappy kennels)
KC don't care as they are reaping the benefits!
I need to put a stop to this as he has bought a large breed (dog of the moment) with the hopes that he'll get £1000 per pup!

Does he have a council breeding licence? 

The tax man ?  not sure how you would go about it, but I am sure someone will be along to point you in the right direction.

If they breed five or more litters in any 12 month they are required to have a breeders licence as their breeding is deemed commercial.

By law no bitch is supposed to have more than 6 litters, and if a breeding license has to be held no bitch is supposed to have a litter in less than 12 months from the lat occasion.

Breeders are supposed to keep detailed breeding records for inspection.

If the breeders is breeding at commercial levels then the tax man may well be interested.

So first to the Local Authority re licensing and inspection.

> The tax man ?  not sure how you would go about it, but I am sure someone will be along to point you in the right direction

Good idea :)

Tax Evasion Hotline

Argh!  I'm just so mad.  He doesn't have a clue, doesn't give the girls proper care or love or food or attention.  He probably does everything right in the eyes of the law, etc, but it's just not good enough!!  And those poor girls.  He never walks them or anything they just spew out puppies for cash.  I will have a look into things to see if I can get him anywhere.

How about your local paper, or local radio station. If you wanted to remain anonymous just ring and give them the background. They like a story to get teeth into. Might bring this b....... to the attention of any locals at least,who may be considering purchasing a poor pup from him. Good thoughts to you for caring enough to try and get something done about this. Please post on how you get on.

I'd think that was a non starter from the libel point of view, after all they may be doing nothing illegal (even if unethical).

I know that it is easy and right to be mad at the individual who sets up places like this but I really feel more annoyed at all the idiots who buy puppies from these places. They should feel responsible!!

How about drawing it to the attention of the Dog Breeding Advisory Council? It may not stop this individal immediatly but if they were innundated with examples of poor breeding practices, perhaps this issue would move up the agenda? So far it seems the issues of puppy farming and BYB are being largely ignored. Simply advising people to go to a 'reputable' breeder isn't ever going to work as there are always going to be enough people wanting a puppy now with no questions asked to keep this type of person in business.

I, too, wonder what sort of person buys from this person.  Why isn't there alarms bells ringing when they visit?!  And it's not as if he sells them at a reduced price.  Definately a BYB but I am sickened at the fact that their is no law against this practice.  No-one regulating the practice at all.  Basically he can breed the life out of all his bitches for money and no-one cares at all.  The life is expendable.......

If this person does have a license and does declare tax, apart from being terribly upset by what is going on, we can do zippo.

If the dogs are fed, have water, shelter and look to be in outwardly good physical condition no-one is interested, puppy farms thrive on doing exactly the same thing.

Unfortunately they are doing nothing illegal if following all the meager rules set up, the dogs and bitches will be used and then got rid of.

The fault is completely laying at the feet of those who buy from these places, with the millions of pounds the KC make every year I also blame them for not putting out TV and magazine adverts on what people should look for in a good breeder. Because at the end of the day seems the GP will always look for a cheaper option and then complain when things go wrong later, it doesn't go in.

It must be awful for anyone living near a person like this, I know it would really upset me.

Thing is the breeding and sale of dogs welfare Act  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/11/contents has quite some robust rules, but the main issue is ENFORCEMENT.

Quote:
"4 Imprisonment for keeping unlicensed establishment etc.E+W+S.(1)In subsection (1) of section 3 of the 1973 Act (offence of keeping an unlicensed establishment etc.), for the words from "to" to the end substitute "to--.
(a)imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months; or.
(b)a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale,.
or to both."

(2)Subsection (1) does not apply in relation to an offence committed before this Act comes into force.."

If someone is breeding at commercial levels then breeding from a bitch in under 12 months IS ILLEGAL.  Breeding more than 6 litters in a bitches life is illegal.

How do you prove it as they won't be KC registered, so your left with monitoring adverts, which will rarely identify who the parents are.

If the will existed records the breeder is obliged to keep would be checked, that is each litter who they sold to etc.

So really all you can really do is contact the council, and if they haven't got a License ensure they get one, then monitor and if licensing rules and the law are broken report with your evidence and keep pressure up.

Here is a PDF of the Act:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/11/pdfs/ukpga_19990011_en.pdf
might be worth printing off and quoting relevant section to teh council offcer when needed.

It does look like you need the 1973 Act in tandem as that only seems to give the amendments to the former Act.  (sy can't they jsut rewrite it and scrap the former???)

http://www.animallaw.info/nonus/statutes/stukuk1973c60.htm

It would seem that the above is the Act with the 1999 amendements???

Quote:
"4A Breeding establishments for dogs
[(1)   References in this Act to the keeping of a breeding establishment for dogs shall be construed in accordance with this section.

(2)   A person keeps a breeding establishment for dogs at any premises if he carries on at those premises a business of breeding dogs for sale (whether by him or any other person).

(3)   Subject to subsection (5) of this section, where--

          (a) a person keeps a bitch at any premises at any time during any period of twelve months; and

          (b) the bitch gives birth to a litter of puppies at any time during that period,. . .

he shall be treated as carrying on a business of breeding dogs for sale at the premises throughout the period if a total of four or more other litters is born during the period to bitches falling within subsection (4) of this section.

(4)   The bitches falling within this subsection are--

          (a) the bitch mentioned in subsection (3)(a) and (b) of this section and any other bitches kept by the person at the premises at any time during the period;

          (b) any bitches kept by any relative of his at the premises at any such time;

          (c) any bitches kept by him elsewhere at any such time; and

          (d) any bitches kept (anywhere) by any person at any such time under a breeding arrangement made with him.

(5)   Subsection (3) of this section does not apply if the person shows that none of the puppies born to bitches falling within paragraph (a), (b) or (d) of subsection (4) of this section was in fact sold during the period (whether by him or any other person).

(6)   In subsection (4) of this section "breeding arrangement" means a contract or other arrangement under which the person agrees that another person may keep a bitch of his on terms that, should the bitch give birth, the other person is to provide him with either--

          (a) one or more of the puppies; or

          (b) the whole or part of the proceeds of selling any of them;

and "relative" means the person's parent or grandparent, child or grandchild, sibling, aunt or uncle or niece or nephew or someone with whom he lives as a couple.

(7)   In this section "premises" includes a private dwelling.] "

> The fault is completely laying at the feet of those who buy from these places

I think that statement is just a little unfair ! When we got Bramble 12 years ago, our first dog (other than family dogs when we both lived at home), neither of us knew ANYTHING about ethical breeding !! All we knew was that you could buy pedigree dogs from breeders or get a dog from a rescue centre. We weren't aware at all of puppy farms, health issues etc. It was only, after getting, Bramble and then taking him to training classes etc that we started to mix with experienced dog people and I started to look on the internet etc and became more knowledgeable. There are many, many people out there who do not come from dog families who, with the best of intentions, may buy a dog from these places - the adverts are perfectly plausable to an inexperienced person. Would you not buy from a cheaper place if you were not aware that there was anything different in the product ????

It is easy for those on here who are immersed in the dog world and whose families have been likewise, to criticise those who have not had this experience. I agree that the KC should be far more involved in advertising what to look for in a good breeder and why puppy farmers (which includes other breeders who just churn out puppies without good reason) should be avoided.

I think that statement is just a little unfair ! When we got Bramble 12 years ago, our first dog (other than family dogs when we both lived at home), neither of us knew ANYTHING about ethical breeding !!

But why didn't it occur to you to do some research? I can remember being 9 years old and my parents promising me I could finally get a pet (my parents knew nothing at all about pets), and the first thing my dad did, weeks in advance, was go to the library and borrow books on guinea pigs so that we would be prepared and be able to do everything right. When I was 15 I started walking a neighbour's Golden Retriever when they were at work, and then I even joined the breed club to make sure I knew everything essential. And the breed club I found out about from reading a book I'd got out of the library. When I was 25 I got pregnant and the first thing I did again was get lots of books and magazines to be prepared. All of this long before the internet, whereas 12 years ago the internet was in existence so it was even easier to find information. I can't imagine not researching anything new to me before going ahead.

I'm afraid, or I guess I should say glad :-) that I was brought up like Goldmali we were never allowed any kind of animal unless we understand everything about it and how many years commitment we had to put in, I was also brought up with that phrase "You get what you pay for" If something is cheap I'll question why? From fruit drinks to a horse. :-D

I do agree though most people do just look at advertisements in one place or another and going back 12 years to when you got Bramble recommended health tests etc may not have been prevalent when looking at those adverts, but today there is no excuse at all as no-matter where you look today even on the free websites you have breeders who will put up those tests done, aftercare etc, you have the price ranges to question and compare and ask why is this one this price, that one that price?

And if people are still choosing those cheaper pups and walking into a place where all different breeds are in kennels and crates and still buying a pup from these people, we're left with no-one to blame but them, they should walk away and look somewhere else, breeders are not few and far between in most breeds, there is always another breeder. :-)

In this day and age with the Internet and all the information we can have in a second, anyone not prepared today probably is buying on a whim anyhow.

newcommers do get caught out.
and its not always their fault.

my neighbour caught me few days ago as they are looking to get their first dog, she has got some books, found a puppy class and visited discover dogs to chat about their chosen breed.so she has done some research.

  she was telling me how they are looking at the breeders on the kennel club list as those would all be proper good breeders or the kennel club wouldn't allow them to list there :(   she was horrified when I told her people pay to go on that list and its NOT a guarentee of quality . she was utterly convinced such a well known body as the Kennel Club would carefully screen advertisers and only allow on good ones.   I've sugguested she contacts the breed club for their list- and their puppy buying advice guide.

Ditto Marianne, when I decided to get a Rabbit I got bocks from the Library, and it is from those I learnt about the BRC (British Rabbit council) and Rabbit shows.

I then decided that I wanted a purebred Rabbit and to start showing and breeding.

When I decided to get a dog it was natural to go to the library again ring the kennel club (this was 25 years ago) and find the breed clubs fo the breeds I was interested in.

I was able to visit a breed owner near me to ensure they were what I wanted.

Life changed and I lost my first dog young, but needed something less needy and sensitive being a lone parent of two.

Again researching from books, breed club for info and where I could meet the breed and the rest is history.

Now it is so easy to research with the click of a mouse.

> But why didn't it occur to you to do some research?

We did do some research, but only to look at a few breeders' websites and some rescue centres. I don't remember the KC website having ANYTHING about unethical breeders then :) I think that we had a basic book about looking after dogs, but it never mentioned puppy farming or unethical breeders. I was never involved in the dog buying process as a child (probably considered too young and not MY dog anyway). Most of the families where I lived would get a puppy from Joe Bloggs up the road - usually a mongrel. My OH's parents had CKCS, but he never remembers any big discussions about keeping dogs. Having dogs 30-40-50 years ago for lots of people was just one of those things that you did - it wasn't considered a science - dogs were dogs. It doesn't mean to say that the dogs weren't well cared for.

Yes, I quite agree that people should not buy a dog from anywhere just because it is cheap. There are lots of people who have come on CD having made the mistake of buying from a puppy farm etc, but to rubbish them all is disrespectful IMO.

And yes, I did my research when I was expecting my first baby - but then I had had no experience of babies. Doubt whether my mother did any research tho' :) :) Maybe that's my big problem :) :)

Weimed,

I do agree the KC should not have a two tier system...... not today, the way that BYB and puppy farmers are rife and in their thousands there should only be the KC ABS scheme which insures only health tested and screened parents are bred from in accordance with their breed clubs. Which also allows them to be struck off if all rules and care is not adhered to. Much better system and protects everyone and is the best guarantee of a quality pup and aftercare.

Normal KC registration only guarantees a pedigree pup and that the bitch bred from has not had more than 6 litters is under 8 years & over 12 months, basically that is it.

To be fair there are millions of pups registered every year, the KC could not check all premises, however they should check up if a complaint is made, but people have to complain, often they don't.

Well done in pointing her in the direction of the breed clubs the KC ABS would have been fine too though, it does cover for the same things, don't forget Champdogs too, rigid rules are set up on this site for advertisers, how could you have forgotten to tell her about CD. :-D

> I don't remember the KC website having ANYTHING about unethical breeders

Don't know about then but they certainly do now:
on the home page there is a link on top line 'buying a dog' gives you drop down menu to here: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2101 
Advises what to look for in a breeder, questions to ask, what to expect etc.

".......Never go to a pet shop as their breeding stock may have come from puppy farmers - breeders out to make a quick profit often at the expense of the health and welfare of the puppies.

Please read the article below titled 'Puppy farms, puppy dealers and pet shops' as this will give you the facts if you were planning to buy a puppy from a pet shop or a puppy 'dealer'."

Points you to this article: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/208
'Puppy farms, puppy dealers and pet shops'

I would be absolutely amazed if this chap is being a good boy and paying tax on all this.

Go with the tax man.

I have said it once and I expect I shall say it a million times, the KC should stop registering puppies from non health tested parents. Maybe a FB group should be started like Mike Gadsby did. Seems they have listened to him but his campaign will not cost the KC money, stopping registering pups will, so I'm not holding my breath.

defo start with the local council as i doubt very much he has a licence to breed that many litters.

Then also the tax man too.

People like this make me really sick and it is very frustrating that people will still buy from awful set ups like this where they clearly have no concern for the dogs and puppies at all just the ££££ :(

I have said it once and I expect I shall say it a million times, the KC should stop registering puppies from non health tested parents

I agree wholeheartedly. This should be the standard that the KC should expect from breeders. It shouldn't need to be KCABS. The KC by their action/inaction permits all breeders of pedigree dogs to  register their pups which includes puppy farmed pedigree pups. It is about time they got to grips with this situation. If people thought that pups could not be KC registered then they make think again about breeding.

> If people thought that pups could not be KC registered then they make think again about breeding.

Unfortunately not they would just "register" with one of the puppy farm registries, or make up their own. 

They charge the same (or very little less) money as for KC registered pups from health tested parents in my breed.

When you think about it the KC was started very much like our Somerset House, a place to register all pedigree dog births, if you had a KC registered dog you knew you had an official pedigree with many ancestors and champions on that pedigree. It wasn't a none registered dog sold via a man in the pup which was likely to be a cross. (The man in the pup has just moved to their own house or a puppy farm.)

That is what The KC used to stand for, no more than a place of registry/heritage.

Today the KC has had to step up to not just being a place of registry but an advisor and with the ABS enforcer of quality pups.

We know that thousands of dogs are bred every year away from the KC 'apparently' also pedigree, the other registry services can do their own pedigrees, but none will ever be held in the same esteem as a KC registered pedigree, so I don't understand why the KC don't just go the whole hog now and go ABS, if they lose the first tier of KC registered customers so be it.

They would get them back if they pushed the value of the ABS and having a KC registered dog with proof of pedigree and ancestors people will want that, it's always been in the hands of their advertising.

They need to stand head and shoulders above none registered and other registry services, but only they can do it. People need to look up to them once again. The ABS is the only way to go.