Hi,
We're very new to the showing world & have been attending ring craft classes with our pups.  Their 1st 'real' show is July 2nd and I was just wondering if anyone on here could fill me in on any ring etiquette or ideas for how a show works.  Obviously we've been and watched before but never had to exhibit.

Things like: How early to arrive
do you let your dog stand around the ring while you wait
should they be kept on their benches - do you leave them there and go walk around?
is there designated dog toilets at outdoor shows
can you groom/ at ringside etc
Can you ask the judge for feedback afterwards?
Are you allowed to greet the judge & say good morning and then thanks after or is this seen as interfearing?
Do you hold your dog in stacked in position the whilst the judge looks at other dogs?
How do you know when  to walk and when to run?
How do I know what grooming products are banned - shampoo wise?
How should you dress?

Phew a lot of questions!   - like I say we have been going to ring craft and they're great but a lot of people need help and I don't want to feel like I'm taking over the poor lady asking soooo many questions. 

Any help would be greatly received :)

Thanks for any help you may be able to offer

Thanks for

Some things will be breed dependent.

Talking to the judge unless asked a question is not allowed, but a few words often set you at ease.  Nothing wrong with saying your new to all this and can he make his instructions very clear, though often better to say this to the steward checking the class.

It is best to arrive at least an hour before your likely to be judged.  Dogs are supposed to be on their benches except when being exercised (actually a euphemism for going for a toilet break), or being groomed or during exhibition.

if your benches are some way from your ring it is usual for people to bring their dogs to ringside, at least for that sex.  I show bitches so will not take mine to the ring until Open dog goes in.

As for dress in some breeds casual is fine as long as it is clean and decent, in other breeds everyone wears a suit and others anything between, so seeing what is the norm in your breed is a good idea.

What you do want to ensure is that the colour fo your bottom half is one the dog shows up against, and contrasts nicely.  For example some colours do not flatter some breed colours.

As for handling styles, free standing (my breed) stacking (many gundogs), some are even presented front on, adn soem smaller breeds are stood on a table.

Even the way you move your dog, loose lead (but some breeds hold the lead up high, (sadly some string them up so the front feet barely touch the ground). 

You should have been advised fo this at Ring craft and been practising that style fo ring presentation.

Style of coat presentation is also something to bear in mind.

For example someone new to our breed came to a show with me.  When we were giving the dogs a final groom, I noticed that she was back-combing and fluffing up her pups coat, making ti look like a meringue.  I quickly Had to tell her that the breed is required to have a dense but close coat.  So we quickly had to comb it all through and slick it down (she had a profuse puppy coat).

You could ask a lot of these questions at your ringcraft as Brainless has said it will depend on your breed.

I like to get to a show around an hour before to settle the dogs (and me lol), I only go to the benches to collect my ring numbers as I usually show a few I take the dogs to ringside as I could never be running between the ring and the benches - I'd be holding the classes up for one thing.

If your not in the first class I would watch the classes and see what patterns the judge is asking exhibitors to move their dogs, if you already know that before you go in you can have a plan in your mind.

I would have thought you will do the bulk of your grooming at home and then the last minute touches at the show.

I only speak to the judge when I am spoken to and have never asked for feedback after the judging has ended, I wait for the critiques if I am placed.

More than anything else enjoy yourself

Are you not allowed say 'thank you' to a judge?  I always do!  Admittedly I have no idea what I'm doing, but didn't realise that was a faux pas... thought I was being polite!

My take on it:

Re: the judge, I speak if spoken to but dont start a conversation.

At an outdoor show, my first priority is keeping my dog cool or warm depending on the British summer !
On a sunny day I keep my dog in the shade for the entire time - either by staying in the tented area until my class, under a parasol or at the very least in MY shadow. I keep my dog in my shadow during a class, where I try to keep my dog amused and calm :-)

I try to watch the judges class routine, where he wants them to stand and move. If i see the judge getting annoyed with a certain way of handling I clock it.
I try to remember who was first to be seen in my class so that my dog is ready when the judge finally comes to make his selection.
I dont usually do too much chat so I can watch proceedings.
Probably the most useful bit of advice I was given many years ago.....look like you expect to win!

> Are you not allowed say 'thank you' to a judge?

Of course you are.

Most judges say " thank you" after going over your dog and just before you return to the line....so I say " No - Thank YOU"

That's a relief.  I like to be polite :-)

>Probably the most useful bit of advice I was given many years ago.....look like you expect to win!

Ah-ha!  That must be where I'm going wrong :-D

Yes you can say thank you when sent back to your place in the line, you can ask the judge to repeat the instruction and you would then also say thank you, you can apologise if your pup jumps up or snatches at the judges rosette or hat but keep it to I'm sorry. If you are having a critique written then the judge will say thank you when they are telling you to go and you say thank you and leave the ring.

Congratulate winning dogs particularly if you have a place as well, never leave the ring until all the awards for your class have been handed out and however disappointed do not drop or tear up your award card. (it does happen and it is very bad manners)

Except for puppy play at open shows do not let your dog interfere with other exhibits and if you have a male watch they do not pee on peoples bags or chairs.

If sitting at the side of the ring don't let your dog sit or lay so they are in the ring, it is mean to eat close to the ring when the puppy and junior classes are being judged.

Wear comfortable clothes of modest length (you may have to bend down) and for the same reason not too low a neck line, if well endowed a sports bra is a help in keeping things under control.

Do not worry if your young dog relives it's self in the ring and although the steward will clear it up it is manners to at least offer to do it yourself, the steward will have a bucket and shovel also bags.

Think that is enough - most important enjoy yourself and tell the steward you it is the first time in the ring they will help you and probably tell the judge who will make sure you understand what they want you to do.

Do you hold your dog in stacked in position the whilst the judge looks at other dogs?

Didn't see anyone answer this. When the judge looks at the entire class, which will be when you first enter the ring, and when the last dog has been judged, you keep your dog in the show stand. When the judge judges the dogs individually, you relax your dog and yourself while you wait your turn. Keep an eye on which was the first dog to be judged so that you know when the judge is judging the last one, as that is when you need to set your dog up again. Some ring stewards will actually go round telling the class the judge is on the last dog.

Thank you so much - the whole talking to the judge thing could be why I was getting some strange looks at ringcraft the other day when I was trying to have a full blown conversation with her about how it was our first time and she's easily distracted, are her back legs far enough back etc... oopps good job it was only at ring craft :)

So if there's an issue or something we need to know we speak to the ring stewards rather than the judge.

I'm quite worried about the toilet situation so hopefully she'll empty herself fully before she gets into the ring but I'm glad to hear that with young dogs it can happen and it isn't the end of the world.

I hadn't thought about Colour and showing off the dog when considering what to wear, although i did notice a rather unfortunately low pair of trousers at one show and that made me think about making sure there's going to be no lower back/ bum on display!

I'll keep her out the way of the other dogs as she definately likes to play a little more than is acceptable in the ring

Is it ok for me to take a few of her toys to the ring side with me to help keep the whole experience fun for her?

I am really looking forward to it now and I've got 2 more shows I can go and watch before our debut.  So for these shows I'm going to make sure I watch what the people are actually doing both in and out of the ring - I'm normally just watch the dogs and try and work out what features the judge likes and work out my 1st-5th line up and see if they match up!  It wasn't until ringcraft last week that I realised I never look at the handlers!

Thank you so much for all the advice I really do appreciate it :)

You can take toys but take care not to disturb those in the ring, it is just common courtesy really, try not to do anything that will spoil the chance of other from showing their dog to the best advantage and that means no toys if a dog in the ring will become interested as well but she can chew a Kong or have a soft toy or whatever she likes as long it only excites her.

There are occasions when even a dog in open class will squat or cock a leg, yes, even a Champion - take your dog for a pee and poo before you go into the ring and then do not worry, if it happens, it does, and you will not be the first or the only.

At ringcraft you can say as much as you like, this is a training class & where you learn...totally different to an actual show...please ask at training if you have queries, that is what it is for.

It was the monthly match at ringcraft though and we were up first so I didn't get a chance to watch anyone else first - but everyone is so nice at ring craft there were a few odd looks but no-one seemed to mind. 

Yeah I'll make sure I don't distract anyone - as my girl is very easily distracted by anything and everything I know how little it takes for something to put you off and the last thing i want to do is upset anyone. 

I;m going to keep pestering people with questions at ringcraft and making sure that I watch the people rather than just the dogs at shows from now on!

Thank you so much for all your help and advice

Susiebell, you are so open to suggestions and advice I am sure you will have no trouble at all, as I said before in most breeds they are more than happy to help you and explain if you ask, just avoid asking when they are about to go into the ring as even experienced people get nervous.

It would be great to have the essential points of this thread as one of the admin posts so that anyone new or even not so new to showing can find out what they need to do and when :). Here's my question: I am never sure whether who needs to stay for critiques --1st only? 2nd? What if there are only two who show up for the class?

And the whole issue of seen dogs is another. It isn't always clear where we should be and what we need to do--and quite often the steward is busy on the other side of the ring so there is no one to ask. Is there someone who can help clear up these mysteries :)

If you are placed 1,2 or 3 if the steward does not say then it is best to ask what the judge wants, most at champ shows with want one and two but a few like the third to stay as well at open shows one or two is more usual. Some judges although the second at open and third at Championship shows are not published like to take notes for their own records.

As to seen dogs the steward is the only person who will have asked the judge what they want and you will have to ask the steward where the judge wants you. It is also up to the steward to place you in such a way as to be able to tell the judge who has beaten who and in which class or classes.

I am never sure whether who needs to stay for critiques --1st only? 2nd? What if there are only two who show up for the class?

Well it doesn't help that one dog paper will accept critiques for more placings than the other. :) Technically speaking at any show the judge COULD ask the first 3 to stay for critiques and hence most people will stay even if placed third, if the judge isn't bothering to write critiques for more than first or first and second then the steward will usually tell you you are excused.

And the whole issue of seen dogs is another. It isn't always clear where we should be and what we need to do--and quite often the steward is busy on the other side of the ring so there is no one to ask.

The steward SHOULD tell you this as you enter the ring. If not, when he or she ticks off your number, point out you are a seen dog. Usually the seen dogs are stood at the end of the line and the judge will then move them again after having judged the new dogs, not go over them again.

Thanks Nova--I feel like an idiot sometimes, if we are placed I usually just stand my dog till we have received our card or rosette from the steward and then make our way out of the ring, so I daresay we have slunk off as the judge is still writing up notes on the winner. That first place has been a rarity so far :)

I think it is also etiquette if you are placed, to wait until the dog who has been placed vhc, has been handed its award before leaving, unless you have to leave to get to another class elsewhere in the show.

Agree Lexy, said that earlier, hate to see 2 & 3 snatch their card and disappear with no interest in the Reserve and VHC or a word of praise to the winner in passing.

It is OK to leave the ring when the judge is writing up as long as they are not writing up your dog :-) as said it is the stewards responsibility not yours but if unsure ask them.

oopps missed that sorry.

No problem, just agreeing, one of my pet hates when I steward it just seems so selfish and rude.

> You can take toys but take care not to disturb those in the ring, it is just common courtesy really, try not to do anything that will spoil the chance of other from showing their dog

If / when you get into a group remember that though it may be the norm for your breed to have toys and / or bait in the ring it will not be so for other breeds in the group with you.  There is nothing more annoying that being stuck between something that is being baited constantly with treats thrown on the ground all around it and a rustly bag full of them, and a dog behind you with a squeaky toy keeping it's attention.  That is really not fair on the dogs stuck in the middle who show naturally without any bribes.

Have fun, you will learn as you got along.  We all started somewhere as complete novices, some of us futher back than we care to remember but everyone makes mistakes along the way.  Just enjoy each time out and your dog will, win or lose, there is always another judge and another show.

no, we've never shot off--usually looking for a cure from others :) but in a very small class there may not be one...we were at a show recently where the venue was roasting hot, we'd been there for almost 5 hours before the class, only two in the ring and the judge going through dogs like a dose of salts--I stood the dog, took my card and left the winner to get on with it rather than interrupting her while judge was writing, but of course we congratulated them on the win after they were out of the ring.

Other people perceiving this as bad manners is a bit of a worry for me--my main problem is that somewhere I need to develop some self-confidence so that an attack of 'spare parts' syndrome doesn't send me scuttling off for fear I will be seen as "who's that idiot still hanging about in the ring with her 3rd/Reserve/VHC!"

looking for a cure from others

a Freudian slip here, should read "cue." No wonder I didn't make the cut for the rapture.

Jay, I meant people who leave before the steward has finished giving out the awards, you sometimes see the winner of 2nd and 3rd walking out of the ring before the steward has called the number and given the award to the exhibits placed reserve and VHC - you would not interrupt if the judge has started taking notes of the winner to do anything more than say well done in passing but it is just those few seconds that the steward takes to hand out all the awards that should, in my opinion, be waited for so that no one moves before the winner of VHC has been announced by the steward. Perhaps I am old fashioned in what I think acceptable.

No, as long as the person who is placed last has got their card/rosette you are fine to leave...unless the judge want you for a crit if placed 1st/2nd/3rd...

Toys, had assumed that they were to keep a young dog amused when waiting to go into the ring or whilst the handler is watching the judging or having a natter, outside the ring they are fine as long as they are not disturbing anyone in the ring is what I meant. Unless it is the norm toys should not be used in the ring and agree food should not be thrown.

thanks Nova, it doesn't sound old fashioned to me, sounds like (not so common) courtesy and I will be sure to follow it.

Interesting to watch junior handling, where the emphasis on good manners and turnout seems far higher than for adults. I know children and young people need to start out the right way, and I only wish someone had hooked me into this 45 years ago, but why don't we measure up to the same standards? Ducking now to avoid eggs thrown by immaculate adult handlers...

Interesting to watch junior handling, where the emphasis on good manners and turnout seems far higher than for adults

Main reason being in JH ONLY the handling is judged, not the dog's looks at all.

I love to watch the juniors and most are very good but there are a few that are showing themselves and not their exhibits but that has changed for the better in the last few years. There are some very good adult handlers but you may not notice them and that is because they are good,

There is also the fact that the sort of accuracy seen in a handling ring is not required in the breed ring although I would be happy to see handlers stop at least 5 feet from the judge and to move the exhibit (not the handler) in line with the judges eyes but there again most judges are adept at getting out of the way.

Ive gone off JH Im afraid.

Especially at the moment, with all these american tight skirt suits and ballet pumps. All this grinning at the judge and the long silly loping running steps they do.
Too Hollywood for me Im afraid.

We get this in our breed with adults.....!!!
I cannot understand the strange loping movements either, perhaps the tight skirt suits make you move like that.......

There are some very good adult handlers but you may not notice them and that is because they are good

LOL I seem to watch handlers more than their dogs at the moment, just to try to analyse what they are doing and why, and how to apply it. I've got a long way to go...

> I would be happy to see handlers stop at least 5 feet from the judge and to move the exhibit (not the handler) in line with the judges eyes but there again most judges are adept at getting out of the way.

Heehee, if your visually challenged like me then you often almost mow poor judges down, and as for trying to get your line right coming back????

As an exhibitor my nightmare is the judge that points at his place winners across the ring.  The best judges come across and make their placings obvious.  I have seen less confident exhibitors robbed of their place and weak judges not bothering to correct as it's not first place.

Seriously if you do have a visually or hearing disability please make it clear to the steward to ensure they tell the judge, this way the judge can make themselves clear.

People in my breed are very good at helping you out of difficulties, and I have had warnings shouted to me before I garrote myself on ring ropes etc.

Ive gone off JH Im afraid.


Thought you meant me - paranoid or what - gosh, perhaps you did 0-)

Do understand Brainless and remember once before you had your op insisting the steward taped down some rings in our ring in a sports hall in case you tripped on them.

When I first started wearing bifocals I used to think the blue rope between rings was the line in my specs and ran into a good few before I got used to them.

Also understand the missing of a judge waving at you from a distance particularly if you have won a class you either did not expect to or do not think you should have done.

> Ive gone off JH Im afraid.

  I hadnt even realised til now that you were a JH :-)

After I wrote JH I suddenly thought Jemima might think I meant her.

That's what I thought you meant until I re-read :-D

LOL can't be blamed for who I share initials with - OH who is AH is to blame I suppose.