The quote below is taken from the KC Spokesman's recent comment on the 5% drop in the 2011 first quarter registration numbers. I thought this was rather ironic!

"We can only hope that this gap between the demand for KC-registered dogs and the number actually being bred by KC breeders does not lead to potential puppy owners looking to buy dogs from less reputable breeders or even from puppy farmers.'

With regularly increasing requirements imposed by the KC for the more responsible breeders to conform to across the board surely a lesser quantity of better quality puppies are bound to be bred in the future?

Yes but we want more/all of the puppies bred to be well bred and the others to dissapear.

> With regularly increasing requirements imposed by the KC for the more responsible breeders to conform to across the board surely a lesser quantity of better quality puppies are bound to be bred in the future?

That is exactly what is happening in my breed.

The gulf between those who are prepared to wait until 2 and a half years, MRI scan and screen for heart and eye conditions .......................and those who either dont know or ( more likely dont care) and mate young without any health screening, is widening with the former giving up in droves.

I also feel that some have felt so heavily critisised anyway, never being able to do enough for some...simply gave up doing anything.

What's that old saying?  "rather be hung for a sheep as a lamb".

For some very prominent critics, it is nearly impossible to fulfill all that is required of their idea of an ethical breeder.

For many people ......I'm a 'health nut' .......to others I'm one of those awful dog expoliters...I show my dogs at dog shows!!!

If I didnt show, I wouldnt breed dogs - so perhaps health focused dog breeders will be only those who breed for pets AND are prepared to spend the money on health testing.

There cant be many of those around (no matter what some people say).....it's no wonder many dont want the hassle.

I'm all for further restrictions/requirements by the Kennel club to ensure that KC registration actually means all measures have been taken to ensure quality puppies.

Re: The 2011 5% drop in KC registration.

Why do the KC think this is to do with more pups potentially being born unregistered? As there is no way to officially count unregistered pups and puppy sales. None of us know the extent of puppies produced outside the KC we can only count the KC pups numbers, which are themselves in their thousands.

Is it not more likely that the 5% drop is due to the countries economy, some years figures increase, sometimes decrease, perhaps less pups are just being bred or wanted in the first quarter of this year due to lack of demand and breeders are reigning in to accustom to this, if breeders have been left with pups harder to place (we keep hearing of this) and especially BYB's being stung perhaps they are not continuing through lack of demand?

"I'm all for further restrictions/requirements by the Kennel club to ensure that KC registration actually means all measures have been taken to ensure quality puppies. "

In an ideal World that's what all responsible breeders would like but you only have to read Toolz post to realise the cost and difficulty of producing puppies in breeds with very demanding health screening.  If a breeder is conscientious and rejects grown stock from a breeding programme when they fail health screening this is very costly as well as heartbreaking.

I fear the critics and puppy buying public don't realise the real cost and efforts involved in certain breeds and why it is simply easier for a dedicated breeder to give up trying.

Carrington -"Is it not more likely that the 5% drop is due to the countries economy" I understand your point and this was speculated on as being the cause by the KC Spokesman but they indicate the supply was not there to meet the demand.

> if breeders have been left with pups harder to place (we keep hearing of this) and especially BYB's being stung perhaps they are not continuing through lack of demand?

I hope the latter becomes the case, but I would say it probably isn't. 

In my breed there are a number of litters bred outwith the KC system some are DLRC in UK and the prices charged are nearly the same as breeders who health test etc, and then there are others in Northern Ireland tor example hat are either DLRC or IKC registered that are about 2/3rds/3/4s the price.

So if someone doesn't think health tests matter much, or is not prepared to wait, or thinks the going price for a well bred pup (around £650) is too dear, is prepared to take the ferry they may get one faster than the dwindling numbers of litters bred by ethical breeders within my breed where we expect to have puppies well past 8 weeks if there are several litters bred close to each other and a predominance of one sex.

In reply to dogsbody 100

Really?

Interesting.........

So, the KC are having more enquires for pups than are being bred, I'm really surprised by that, really surprised. I shall watch this thread with interest.

It's a shame we can't tell how many hits they get per bred, as i don't think I have ever had more than one or two people find me via this, but then I have rarely bothered with it.

Perhaps if the the search  stats were available breeders may after analysing them in some cases decide using the kennel Club puppy list a worthwhile tool to find homes for some fo their puppies.

My cynical self thinks that in some less populous breeds the small number of searches for the breed may discourage breeders advertising, especially those breeds that have to pay as they are not on the ABS.

For example I have never ever had en enquiry through the Petplan lists.

We know that the KC are all about the business side of things, so maybe then this 5% drop will give them a good kick in the teeth, that they need to advertise, they need to stress like any business why they are better than the rest.

The public who don't seem to realise or care, not sure which anymore...........

Need to hear that the KC ABS guarantees all parentage is breed related health tested, official pedigree etc adn everything else the ABS guarantees, it all needs putting out there in the public domain, they need those tv, magazine adverts which they have never wanted to do, maybe this will give them the push, because the message doesn't get out there as to what the difference is between a KC ABS breeder and others.

Carrington - "So, the KC are having more enquires for pups than are being bred, I'm really surprised by that, really surprised. I shall watch this thread with interest." that's how I interpret the KC's view from their statement -

"We can only hope that this gap between the demand for KC-registered dogs and the number actually being bred by KC breeders does not lead to potential puppy owners looking to buy dogs from less reputable breeders or even from puppy farmers."

"..... because the message doesn't get out there as to what the difference is between a KC ABS breeder and others." I agree entirely with all your post and the KC should point out to the public how much more it costs in some breeds to produce the ABS puppy.

My point was that it's more likely to be  the type of person producing the puppies that is likely to change in some breeds.

The 5% can be put down to the ecomony but many non-profit driven breeders will be affected by this plus the aforementioned points in my original post.

If all ethical breeders stopped today, very shortly there will be profit seekers taking up the slack and if that means saving a few pounds per pup by not KC registering then that is what will happen.

As I mentioned, pet producers have no real need to KC register if they need to cut costs, no show ring - ultimately no need for it.

I am getting at least one if not two calls/e-mails a day at the moment for pups and in my breed there are few around, except for the usuall names who seem to always have a litter at home, strange but they are often not the ones you see at shows or club events!!!
The Money merchants will always jump on the bandwaggon and as good breeders breed less litters they have a ball producing anything that looks remotley like the breed!
I have often wondered at the link with BYB/Farmers and good breeders, if there were lots of good well bred pups available and the "gimmi the cash" merchants found it hard to sell would it curtail thier efforts at all? Or would they then cut the price and sell at a "BARGIN" to scoop up the not so carefull byers?
Or is it really a case of educating the byers...and if so how?
I don't think we will ever educate Joe Public into the art of finding a good breeder. There are too many who have grown up in our "I want it NOW" society. I think the numbers from the KC reflect a trend towards less pups being registered and more BYB/Farmers  taking a larger part of the available homes. Unfortunatly I think this is the reason why in some cases good breeders are being left with pups after 8 weeks as the byers have gone for the supermarket puppy....Even the endorsements do nothing to stop people breeding as they just ignore them and breed anyway. There are litters advertised in my breed at the moment who are "Not reg as they are not show dogs but pets" Sorry but the synic in me says ...no they CANNOT be Reg not that they havent been...
Aileen

With the weather being so bad at the new year I deliberately didn't mate my girls because of the travelling involved, there may be others out there who did the same resulting in less litters to be registered.

Hi, I have just come on the system and would love to have your opinion on DLRC as we have just purchased a pup who is an adorable little Yorkshire Terrier.  I assumed the pedigree papers were going to come from the Kennel Club as I didn't realise there was any other form of pedigree registration out there.  We have just received the papers from a company called The Dog Lovers Registration Club and have been told it is not worth the paper it has been printed on.  I contacted the KC and have been told we would not be able to show him which we were hoping to just once for the experience or start his line off on the KC in the future.  Such a pitty. The one good ting is he is gorgeous.

I am sorry you have been conned into buying a non KC pup, I hope you weren't charged a high price.

Sorry, it is true that DLRC means nothing at all and may or may not be anything to do with your pup, you will not be able to show or breed pure breed pups from this pup. Never mind enjoy your pup and remember next time to make sure you buy from a responsible breeder and get a health tested Kennel Club registered pup.

Unfortunately, this does happen a lot - people see an advert with pedigree dog with papers and then find out it is DLRC or one they have done themselves. If it doesn't say KC registered, steer clear. Real shame if you wanted to show. :-(

Hi, thanks to everyone for your comments.  Our wee pup is 3 months old and paid over £300 for him and brought him home two weeks ago and wouldn't change him for the world. He has all his injections now and the chip and like a new baby has all the smalls toys you can get for a tiny pup so I think he will be spoilt rotten lol.  I was just annoyed about the way the pedigree part was done.  As I type he is sitting on my knee watching me.  Thank you again I hope this is a warning for others too.

Pleased you love him to bits, the price sounds about right for unregistered, sure he's a real cutie, all pups are gorgeous :-) but yes it is a good warning, it's also very important to make sure that whatever breed you get all breed related health tests have been done, doing your homework on the right kind of breeder can save a lot of future heartache.

May you have many happy years together, give the little cutie a hug from me. :-)

Thank you, but if you are not involved in this world on a dalay basis there are more chances that people like myself will find out too late.  A programme like County File for example should look into it and give some tips. I wish I had come on this sight earlier but then we wouldn't have met our little pup which would have been a shame:)

hey he'll still be your lovely pup regardless of what his papers say.
and although he is exluded from breeding and high level showing its not end of world. there is still a lot you can do with him, he can do companion dog shows where you enter on the day, he can do good citizan scheme, mini agility and there are other things you might want to consider such as PAT dog work if his temperament is suited.  best of it is the types of things you can do with him will be things that reflect the work YOU put in not his breeder so it would be all your own work :)

Hi thank you, your tips are great, still things I can get him involved in to keep him a happy chappy. He gets on great with my KC Rough Collie already who is 13 and has never been to a show  but would have wow'd them as heis gorgeous too which proves he is here purely because we love him. Its the little and large show here at home with the two of them lol.  Cheers again

I have just updated the Champdogs Guide to buying a Puppy with some more information about KC registration. We might not have the reach of Country File, but over 5000 people have read the guide in the time since it was first published.

Hi Mark, thank you, just read through your article and wish we had seen it before to ask the right questions, but although we have not got a proper pedigree for him we could not be happier with our wee pup but it will help others and us for any future addition to our family. Cheers

Hopefully your pup will be problem free, but unless buyers become more educated there will be people happy to breed badly, no health tests, too often too young, too old, untypical specimens of the breed (often wrong colour, size and temperament).

It's like buying designer knock-offs, usually of poor quality, but they are playing with a pups potential health and well being etc.