I have put a basic part of this on my FB page, but needed to go into a proper rant on here with others who actually get what I mean and I can say what I mean without offending anyone directly.

I have a work colleague who I thought I got through to recently who has a Lab x Curly Coat, only 1yr old currently. She thought that the bitch was an actual Lab as it has Retriever at the end.. I have explained that Retriever goes at the end of many types of dogs, like Spaniels and Setters and what she has is a cross breed gun dog and not a pure breed.
Anyway, she was talking about breeding from her in order to calm her down WTF!!! Oh dear... I talked her out of this, or so I thought with everything from health tests for both breeds, to money, what pressures it puts on the bitch etc..

I overheard her say to someone tonight at work she was still thinking of breeding from her...:-( Grrrrr!!!!!!! WHY???? For what reason? Why? She is a pet and only a pet. Is not worked and won't contribute anything to any gene pool.. She has no idea i've overheard her...Lovely lady, but clearly has NO idea

And there is nothing we can do, it makes you want to scream doesn't it? If she wants to breed to calm her bitch down how will she handle puppies? Oh, these people....... do you know the only way I get through, (occasionally) is to stress the danger to the bitch, that she can die if not in capable hands, that she needs to have some medical knowledge to understand reviving pups, breech births etc, the cost of a cesarian that usually brings home the seriousness of their whims.

Cost to them and death are the only things that can get through in my experience, everything else you may as well talk to the wall.....

> Cost to them and death are the only things that can get through in my experience

Thats what I really drummed into her when she spoke about it last time, which made me think she'd re thought it. Her precious girl dying to have a litter, needing a min of £3k to raise a litter, having to take 8 weeks off work and be with them 24hrs for the first few weeks etc... That in itself put her off without the idea of cost of health tests etc..Told her she could be sued if a pup was diagnosed with something she could of tested for and therefore prevented..

Tell her from me it doesn't work LOL

I had a red and white Boxer that was OTT a very full on show girl..
Always on her toes etc etc could be quite a handful.

The old wives tale of have a litter and it calms them down....
well my girl didn't listen she was still as full on as ever only this
time she also had hightened 'maternal instincts' which meant her
protectiveness got worse over 'her things'.
(I didn't breed her for this reason thou I hasten to add)

Plus all the other bits I'm sure you've covered ;)

I'll second that my Inka (nearly 3 years old) whose pups are now 10 weeks old is back to her bouncy full on self (she was a first class mother), and actually scares the pups  a bit sometimes when wanting to play.

Even worse in my local a couple who know we are 'in dogs' were proudly telling me that they had a litter from their Staffie cross pit bull bitch, but when they advertised in the free ads were told to say it was Staff x boxer pups.

I heard them talking on the phone to someone replying to their advert freely saying it was Pitt puppies!!!

I asked them if they knew that Pit and Pit types were illegal, and had been so for 20 years, and they quite cheerfully agreed that yes they knew that.  Were they not worried about having their dogs destroyed or the puppies.  They seemed totally unconcerned as they had never had any 'bover'.

I told them that my niece (who has a Young baby and a partner on the shady side) had just had her 12 months old Pit bull seized and put down.

I hate to say it but I was relieved (because of the baby now toddling), the dog was majorly fear aggressive (people and dogs), had been abused by previous owners when they got her at 6 months) they hadn't a clue about dogs and hit it if it 'misbehaved'. 

My son who often goes around to theirs was trying to give them advice from me (training, behaviourist), but they wouldn't listen.  they were also in a top floor 1 bedroom flat (so I suspect a neighbour complained).

A staff cross pit was in season on my local field and my boys were showing interest and i asked if she was 'on' and they told me, then said i could have pick of the litter and tried to grab his bitch to keep still. Or i could give him my number and try in the week, i said i wasnt interested in cross-breeding and WTH would i want with one! Put both boys on the lead and off we went. Some people havent got a clue.

Don't know if it's a 'terrier thing' but both bitches I have bred have become far more bolshy than they ever were before :(    The Bolshy one is even more difficult to live with now, despite being speyed later, she can be really difficult.    The really biddable bitch is no longer biddable, she has a definite opinion on things now and will go her own way (rolleyes)   I thought extra training should sort it all out - but it hasn't worked, she still has an attitude.

Seriously thinking of NOT breeding the youngest one.   She is lovely to live with, if a little naughty, and I have two who can be really hard work already,  I don't need a third ;)

If the bitch is too lively and difficult, then breeding is just as likely to make her worse in my experience ;)

It makes sense that having puppies will elevate their status and their opinion of themselves, for in nature only the alpha bitch is allowed to breed.

I find that after the pups are gone I have to be on the case of the bitches that had the puppies so that equilibrium in pack dynamics can be re-established.

If there is to be any shift in the order of things then it is most likely to be after a birth has had a litter.

On the other hand though I have found motherhood changed my girls for the better in that they develop a special relationship of extra trust in me.

think we offended someone at club when they where going on about breeding their labradoodle and i asked had they been to local dog rehoming centers latley and they said why, well there are plenty of crossbreeds in there needing homes and you are just going to add to the list, the reply was our dog is a designer dog so she should be fine, my reply was no sorry your dog is a cross breed or mongrel, some breeder saw you comming and said they look gulliable call it a designer dog and they will buy it, and i walked away, other members of the club said they had that comming as they brag all the time about how much they paid for it and it is very unpredictable it has gone for quite a few dogs in the club and they are now having to muzzle it at club i suppose they are trying to get it under control.

Agree with Dill, previously if other dogs bothered Ellie sniffing her back end she would put up with it or just try to get away. Since her first litter 3.5 years ago she will now turn round and growl or snap - just a warning for the dog to mind his manners and nothing to really get concerned about, but definitely a lot more attitude than she had as a maiden bitch.

> and it is very unpredictable it has gone for quite a few dogs in the club and they are now having to muzzle it at club i suppose they are trying to get it under control.

Funny you say that because I have been asked to help with training for labradoodles and every time it has been a temperament issue. I also reported on another thread my dogs were set on by three choc labs and a labradoodle. I have yet to meet a labradoodle with a good temperament, although there must be some out there as they are popular.

It makes me mad too, I was talking to a girl who was thinking of getting a puppy bitch as company for her 2 year old boy. I asked if he was neutered (he isn't) and pointed out the problems they would encounter while puppy was in season and the fact that she could have 3 seasons before she would even be old enough to safely whelp pups, and her reply was... "well I'm not planning on breeding but IF IT HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS" !!!!!!! :-(

Now I have been considering breeding, Got a mentor in my breed, researching studs, showing my "potential" maiden bitches to see if they are worthy, Considered the cost of properly rearing a litter, etc for nearly 3 years, I've even got a short waiting list...but I'm still only CONSIDERING it......and they are just going to......LET IT HAPPEN!!!!! GRRR
Paula

Reply to Lucy

But that is as it should be she has got what we so often go to training courses for 'assertive'.

Yes, but the problem is that people don't realise she is teaching their dog manners, they think she is being nasty, so I have to try to decide when she's had enough of the other dog sniffing her and remove her from the situation before she snaps. Really I was just adding more evidence against the OP's problem of her friend thinking a litter will calm a bitch down!

This is the trouble and why dogs often don't learn manners as they don't get the chance to be taught by other well adjusted canines how to speak dog.

Ideally when your bitch looks fed up the other dogs owner should realise their dog is being rude.

I would never chastise a bitch for this behaviour, or consider it a sign of bad temperament, unless her reaction was excessive.

Both my older girls have had a litter, Granny at 9 years and her daughter at 6 will both tell the boys in no uncertain terms to get lost. They never attack but as soon as a rogue male comes up looking hopefull they will bark and if he pushes it snap at him. I refuse to remove them or leash them, They will do no harm and if the owner of the dog does not like it I just tell them I would be much more nasty if some bloke tried to "Rape" me!! usually makes then think, they do not realize how is it from the bitches side. The pup still thinks everyone is playing and will put up with any amount of male randyness! no doubt if things go to plan and she has a litter later she too will learn to "put the boys in thier place". I think you are on a road to nowhere Sue as the rose coloured specs are worn by so many "BYB".... they will only learn by tradgedy, and Sod's Law always goes in thier favour....!!!
Strangly enough the Labradodooles I have met are all a bit tempremental! I too have offended quite a few by calling their expensive cross breeds what they are!!! The owners get a bit huffy too...must pass from one to the other. (Sorry for the stereotyping, there must be some nice ones about, I just have not had the pleasure of meeting any yet)
Aileen

I really think people think its 'easy money' and get deaf ears when you try explaining the ins and outs of true honest breeding.

Maybe if you embarrass her and mention money and is that the real reason you are doing this , and explain that she would be exploiting her bitch for financial gain...oops (sound terrible)  rather than for the good health of your bitch she will gather her thoughts and realise its not a good idea.

you could also ask her what she will do with the pups she can't sell and that she might have them till they are 6 months plus ask her if she could cope and show her on the front of the dog paper  this week that she might have to microchip the whole litter etc the costs might stop her but i do not think so they see money and they do not see the welfare of the dogs they are breeding

A staff cross pit was in season on my local field and my boys were showing interest

We came across a pair of off-lead husky bitches last year on a walk in the country park adjacent to us. I whistled my dogs back but for once they seemed more pre-occupied with the bitches and it soon became all too apparent why. The owner arrived just as I was dragging my dogs away from their obsessive sniffing--fortunately they got no further than that. When I asked her if she knew her bitches were in season she airily said "oh yes I thought they were coming on." I was so annoyed with her lack of concern all I could do was to point out that she could end up with a big bill for a trip to the vet for morning after injections unless she kept her dogs leashed and away from any males.

> ....We came across a pair of off-lead husky bitches last year

Springer x Husky.... a rather scary-sounding mix!

exactly my thoughts, Ms Temeraire--not so much designer dog as nightmare scenario!

> I have yet to meet a labradoodle with a good temperament, although there must be some out there as they are popular.

I've met plenty - but I've yet to meet one that is sane!!  I know one that is nearly sane, but then she has severe HD so isn't as mobile as she should be...

brainless,could i ask if you think my jess is doing similar,ie,teaching manners?she snaps-just once,at the neck,of dogs-especially big dogs she doesnt know,when they"rush"at her-shes worse on lead,fine when they dont rush her,but i find it a bit embarrassing,and apologise,meanwhile thinking"it shouldnt have ran at her"luckily,most owners seem to think the same as i heard one mutter"serve him right!"fortunately the pup,gwen,seems very laid back and doesnt do it.

The problem isn't pack dynamics - they live together very amicably, nor are they difficult with other dogs - and yes all of mine, even the maiden, will tell a dog if he's too rude.  Nothing heavy but they will let them know ;)

It's more that they are much less co-operative and can get quite huffy with me    Far less eager to please, and far more likely to please themselves IYSWIM ?    especially when off lead ;)  This is the reason for the extra training but it hasn't made that much difference LOL

Yes, I wouldn't apologise, I would cheerfully say something like well young man you were a bit forward you know.  Now introduce yourself nicely and she'll be nice.

Now if she went over to other dogs and bossed them about that would be a different matter.  My Inka would like to do that if I let her.

> Yes, I wouldn't apologise,

Neither would I on this. I have a dog that sometimes likes the 'sniff' the girlies, whether they like him to or not and often gets told off and i'm of the opinion of 'serves him right', but sometimes I just don't want him to pester full stop, it must get a bit much sometimes for bitches having to keep telling random dogs to p*** off..IYKWIM

I have just found out that my brother (who i very rarely see) is letting his mixed terrier bitch have a litter before she is spayed. She was allowed to be 'got at' by a JRT and they are hoping she is in pup.
They aren't even doing this for money, the pups are being given away. They just think she should be allowed to have a litter before spaying.

I was sent a messge asking if i would give a pup a home, so i sent a message back saying that if i wanted a mongrel i could take my pick from the hundreds in animal shelters. I guess i won't be getting a Christmas card !