Hi i show my mums two year old dobermann Called Hattie she has a un docked tail i just wondered when i stack her dose it matter if her tail is up or down or any other tips you may have to help with showing her as i am new to this showing. Thank you for your help  

Hiya, from what I have seen around shows and at Ringcraft an undocked Dobermann is stacked with it's tail up.

Why don't you get yourself down to Ringcraft? You'll find lots of help there. Where abouts do you live? Maybe someone lives nearby and can recommend a good Ringcraft class to help you out.

Hi i live in Aberdeenshire would go to ringcraft classes but any i have found in my area are at nights and i work nights. Wondered about getting some private lessons but dont know how to go about it.

I would ask the Breeder as even if they don't live nearby they may be able to suggest someone who could help you :)

I find it weird that they now want to accentuate the tail.  I know for me in my breed who now have tail if I had to stack my dog think I'd have the tail down myself especially the really curly ones.  My girl who does have a tail free stands and her tail is up high when she first stands and then goes to a nice level.

As the standard calls for it to be raised to the level of the spine then I would expect that is how they are stood with the tail as an extension of the back.

At shows though you see them up and over the back.  Does look strange.

You do indeed - mixed classes with some docked and others not is a weird and wonderful sight.

It must be difficult for judges of docked breeds because the tail set and carriage is yet to become settled, understandable because the tail carriage is not something the breeders have had to worry about - now they will have to consider not just the tail set but the carriage as well and I hope when trying for the acceptable carriage the sneaky genes do not bring something else in with the desire to have the required carriage.

Then there are those breeds like mine who can have any length of tail and be born naturally LOL!

but that isn't how they are encouraged it is how they most naturally are, they look like they have teacup handles.

the boxers I have sen keep their tails lower but up like a beagle or Hamiltonsstovare on the move.

Rotties seem to have Labrador type tail carriage.

At the moment anything goes as until breeders start selecting for tail carriage you will get all sorts.

The thing I find, that doesnt finish the picture, is some gundogs breed handlers hold the tail where the dock would have ended & the rest of the tail is just left to do its own thing!! I wish they would alter their handling to include the tail...something like a goldie or setter?? it looks so much better!!

I have the opposite view to you lexy :-)  Some of the boxer exhibitors have started holding the tail at the end (the only breed I have seen with tails held in this way are bloodhounds) and I think they look silly. I hold my boxer's tail just about where it would have been docked and if the tail is well set and carried up, the rest of it seems to behave itself ;-)  It's going to take years to sort out.

Why hold the tail at all?

LOL, don't know why but I had a vision there of us trying to hold the tails of our breed.

Do agree with you it would be better if a lot of breeds let the dog hold it's tail in the natural position, JMO but think it can look better to allow the dog a more natural stance rather that a show stack.

i wonder why they hold the tail at all? In my breed (rotts) we leave the tail alone. on the move its up and once settled in a stand it drops down.

I agree Brainless - why hold the tail?

I think the need to hold the tail is the way a breed is usually presented.  Boxers are 'topped and tailed' rather shown loose and baited.  Many boxer exhibitors bait their dogs continually (which I hate and don't do) and not as, say a Rottie or Dobe exhibitor would, with a hand in their pocket, promising a treat for standing freely.  I have seen a very prominent boxer exhibitor waving a chicken leg under the dogs nose to get it's attention :-O but normally it's a lump of liver or cheese which the dog is constantly chewing on as the handler, at the same time, lifts/holds the tail.  Not how I do it but after 30 years, what do I know :-)  

The worse thing about the huge lumps of bait is when it is thrown (which some do) bits break off and scuttles the attempts of those who follow to get their dogs attention - so the bait gets bigger to better get attention, is thrown, breaks off, gets bigger - guess you know where I am going with this. :-)

Certainly do Nova.  One of the reasons that it p*sses me off too :-)

Can this not be stopped in the rings? Bait throwing? very often the handler never picks it up or it has often ended up being thrown into another ring where another breed is being shown..

I certainly need to have bait for my sniffy breed, but in my view bait should only go from hand to dogs mouth and never be allowed to be thrown about.

I would hate to have to do without bait as it would mean resorting to stacking our breed (which they do in some countries). 

This leads to a very static flat looking dog, not in keeping with the breed standard that calls for 'Bold and Energetic'.  I feel you can only really see this aspect if the dog if freestanding.

In the past the doyennes of our breed have been ever very adamant that you do not use hands on when showing the dog, and I hope this does not change with placing of feet, holding up of tails and heads..

I have no issues with baiting in a ring, I bait my dog at times too. Its the throwing of bait onto the ground I have the issue with.

> but in my view bait should only go from hand to dogs mouth and never be allowed to be thrown about.

AGREE!!!>

I also wonder why they hold the tail, many of them look daft and people hold them in the middle and the tail just droops down.  So glad that my breed is easy and freestands and their tails do whatever they feel like doing at that time :) 

Oh I have no objection to baiting must have used lbs of the stuff myself, it is the throwing of bait or a toy that I think is selfish, it distracts other exhibits and makes life difficult for others particularly those with young animals who find showing exciting enough without people throwing food in the air.

I know you agree with baiting as you have the same breed as me and it can be quite difficult keeping their heads up without the lure of a treat pending.

There are those though who think all baiting should be stopped, mainly I expect as they have stacked breeds so probably don't see the difficulty in not using any..

You either show on a loose lead, free standing the dog with bait or you string it up and stack it then you can manage without bait it is both a matter of choice and usual practice - know what I would rather judge, I complain about those who bait so the dogs head is too high but I have seen far worse in stacked dogs when the highest point of the dog is the nose a totally unnatural position that along with the rocking horse stance is down right ugly. So why worry about the tail let it and the rest of the dog settle into a natural but alert stance and if that requires bait then so be it but don't throw it around.