I have 3 entire bitches. 9yr old is the boss, 4yr old very submissive, and 11 months old which is submissive to the old bitch but tries to raise her status with the 4 yr old(unsucessfully).  Anyway, yesterday morning we had a bit of a snap from the 9 yr old at my child(2yr old horror).  The bitch was up snoozing on the sofa and my daughter sort of fell ontop of her and hurt the dog with her knee as she tried to stop herself.  The old bitch woke with a start and nipped my daughter on the face(red mark but not broken skin).  Anyway we have decided since then to stop the dogs getting on the sofa as they have plenty of beds scattered about the downstairs but I love snuggling with the 4 yr old and she has never did anything and it would never enter her head to do anything except run for her life had my daughter did that to her.
My question is, should I make all the dogs stay down off the furniture to keep peace among them meaning they all know their place, etc?  Or would it make any difference if I made the top bitch sleep on the floor(in a bed) and let the 4 yr old on the sofa?  Am I just heading for trouble with the 9 yr old and 4 yr old?
PS I am a big believer in pack heiracy.  Humans are the top but I believe my dogs have an order too.

I don't see that it would make any difference. A dog I bred had a child fall on him when he was asleep on the floor, same thing happened. He'd never dream of hurting anyone normally. My point being that a child can fall on a dog wherever it sleeps -it was nothing but an accident. Stopping them sleeping on the furniture won't change that.

I have to say I feel that believing humans are part of dog packs to me seems a bit like still believing the earth is flat because it looks that way. ;) There's plenty of scientific proof after all, it's not just opinions.

Marrianne, sorry, should have explained better.  The old bitch has history and has bitten (completely aware) before so that seems to be her answer to everything.  Not our kids, might I add, but has previous.
~Also, I meant I believe in DOG packs.  I am aware that my dogs know I am not a dog, same as I know my dogs are not my babies.  I treat my dogs like dogs.

I wouldn't worry about pack hierarchy between you and the dogs... it really doesn't make that much difference. I would however not banish one from the sofa and let the other ones up, that doesn't seem fair - even between dogs. However, could you teach them to only go up on the sofa on invitation? That way you can control it better but don't have to exclude anyone as such.

I also agree that an accident like that can happen anywhere and may actually be even more likely when the dogs are on the floor than higher up as it's easier to fall on them that way...

>My question is, should I make all the dogs stay down off the furniture to keep peace among them meaning they all know their place, etc?  Or would it make any difference if I made the top bitch sleep on the floor(in a bed) and let the 4 yr old on the sofa?

It often depends on you and your dogs.  In any given situation my dogs are perfectly capable of managing their own order.  The fact that I might choose to perform one action with one dog doesn't really figure into their equations.

However my MIL is inclined to to exagerate the attention she pays to one dog - and it draws the others in a way that often results in some pushing and shoving.  I'm not sure how she does it but it's very obvious when she is around that there is some inequality.  If you were going to allow your 4yr old access to the sofa and continually reinforce that the older one isn't allowed I'd say that you are going to create an unnecessarily awkward relationship for them.

Pack hierarchy, such as it it is, is a floating beast in our household and depends on each situation.  Walks, food, beds - all seem to have different leaders and followers depending on how they feel.  If anything ever upsets the status quo I just watch and learn for a while and they seem to make adjustments to compensate. I could feed one first or last, it doesn't seem to matter - they have their own rules and rituals and anything I do is outside of that.  I don't need to impose a 'pack' order on them and I'm repaid with a pretty easy life.

However well we know our own dogs, however observant we are of their behaviour, I doubt we will ever be as good at interpreting their behaviour as they are ours :-)  We just seem to have lost a little of our natural ability that way.  When we try to impose our preference as to who should take the alpha role with our dogs we invariably get it wrong I feel.

Fascinating subject and my dogs teach me more about it all the time :-)

> Pack hierarchy, such as it it is, is a floating beast in our household and depends on each situation.

Same here!

For what it's worth, to keep the peace I have to ensure Hattie doesn't get on the sofa if I am sitting on it. As long as I'm not sitting down she can get on the furniture if she wants to. All the others are allowed on at any time.

Hattie is perfectly happy with this situation, but if I'm sitting down and she comes up I can almost guarantee she will kick off at one of the other dogs if they come anywhere near (must be possessive towards me (?)). To avoid the situation it's just a case of if I'm sitting down, she's not allowed on.