Hi All,

Just wondering what food do you all give to your dogs and why? I have heard about the BARF and Raw Meaty Bones diets however I know very little about them as most of the websites I have read seem vague on quantities and the inclusion of fruit & vegetables. The raw diets have always seemed slightly impractical to me as I assume they should be fed outside and would smell a fair bit? Do you feed the raw diets from the stages of being a puppy?

Is there a need for a dry mixer to be fed with the raw diet? What do you do if you have to put your dog in a kennel or have them minded by someone? It seems that it is a bit much to ask them to go to the butchers everyday to buy meat rather than just providing them with a bunch of read packaged food. We do not have a local butchers after a Tesco was opened in the village and the green grocers and butcher closed down.

If you don't feed a raw diet- What food do you feed and do you supplement it with raw food? Is there a mix of dry and 'wet' food or do you feed exclusively one kind? The dried kibble has always seemed fairly unnatural to me however I have never researched enough into a raw diet to feel confident enough to feed it or recommend it to anyone. The thing with many dried and 'wet' food that worries me is the rice in them- are grains natural to a dog's digestive system?

Sorry for all the questions. I am generally uninformed on the feeding issues surrounding dogs and I am really willing to learn and take on information in preparation for when I finally take on a pup. The logical explanation to me is that 'slow-cooked' meals that you often see in tins or pouches is quite unnatural to a dogs digestive system, and that the 'dried' meals are also unnatural in their texture. In the past our vet has always recommended 'chappie' dog food for it's high fish/meat content- this food does STINK but it has always left our dogs that we've owned in the past with healthy stools and teeth.

Is there any literature you could recommend on the issue? Most of the stuff I have read is quite unbalanced as they fiercely defend their own methods without providing counter arguments and I loathe reading information by the dog-food manufacturers with their pseudo scientific wordings- some of them are like adverts for beauty products!

Thanks,
Josh

Yep I feed raw that is raw meaty bones not barf to both my dogs that is Whispa and my chix. He has about 1kg per day he weighs about 43kg little one meanwhile has about60grms per day she weighs nearer 4lbs.

I will pm you a good site to look at the lady raw feeds all her dogs including the pups from birth To me its the way to go being as near as possible what we think they would have in the wild
Now downsides. To make it cost effective you really need to buy in bulk. Mine cost about 35pound a month there are plenty of suppliers around. You do need freezer space
As for where they eat that rather depends on you and your dog. I feed my gsd outside because I wasnt happy having slabs of raw meat om my floor then having to wash it again. Also Whipsa doeesnt or cant eat a whole chicken carcass in a bowl anyway. Its no problem outside as now he wont eat in doors come rain or shine even if I offer him the garage. Not everyone is bothere about the extra floor washing its just me.
Holidays kennels could be a problem but I usually keep a few tins of chappie nearby or some arden grange for such eventualities or if I have not got the food sorted.
Pros the dogs love it
in theory they are healthier but difficult to do afair test on that one mine are certainly fit and healthy
It can be cheaper than a good kibble
Its the way dogs are designed to eat.
Personally having done both I wouldnt willing go back

I will pm you with some links

Thanks for all your help once again Chris, It's great to hear first-hand experiences of it. Freezer space could be a problem for me- will have to have a word with my parents.

I raw feed and my two Labs have been raw fed since pups, the eldest is now 5 1/2.  I've also swapped over a couple of old rescues, not because I wanted to as they came to me on different commercial foods, but they turned their noses up at kibble/tinned stuff, when they saw/smelt what else was on offer.  And, I have to say, they both did very well on raw.

Raw feeding isn't half as complicated as people seem to think, and it's nowhere near as difficult, yes, it does require a little more forethought and planning, and of course freezer space depending on how many dogs and how large they are, but if lifting a bag of meaty bones out of the freezer is really that difficult, raw feeding isn't for you.

I feed mainly chicken carcasses, lamb bones and green tripe.  I avoid weight bearing bones which can be more brittle and prone to splintering, as well as bones from larger, older animals, again, more brittle and prone to splintering.  I don't put in any dry mixer, but I do add blended veggies and appropriate left overs, as well as a few other extras, raw eggs, tinned fish, and cooked liver/kidney. 

It can be cheaper depending on the supplier you find, I have a good local butcher, it's unfortunate yours has closed down, I pay £2.50 for between 40-60 portions of chicken, and get lamb bones for free.  I think I spend around £10 maximum per week for two adult Labradors, and that includes free range eggs, the chicken and lamb is locally sourced and free range/organic, as is the other meat I buy from the butchers.  I'm really happy with the overall condition of my dogs, they rarely have anything wrong with them, the vet sees them once a year for their annual boosters and LOVES seeing them.  They are (in his words) two of the healthiest examples of Labradors registered with the surgery. 

I have a raw feeding guide, which I'm happy to email you if you pm me your email address. 

Thanks for your help. It's very annoying that the local butchers has closed down, especially given the circumstances. I will look into local meat suppliers. I'm a vegetarian so don't often have to buy meat, but have no problem feeding it to a dog- obviously! lol

Josh

Possible suppliers who deliver over large area landywoods, albion foods, the dog food company, tpms berriewoods, raw to go. Apologies to any I've forgotten. Butchers vary nationwide mine here work out far to expensive and don't do  the range of meats I want. Other people have more success with theirs. Buying in bulk is def the cheapest way I buy about 115 kg every 3 to 4 months costing about 1pound per kg
I also strangely don't mind handling and feeding meat for my dogs but don't eat much meat myself having been veggie previously

I feed raw as well having changed over about a month ago and so far I wouldn't go back to kibble at all.  I use rawtogo minces, carcusses and necks and use a variety of different meats.  Costs me about £50 per month to feed three adult BCs.  The beauty of the rawtogo minces is that they have a ratio of 10% offal 10% bone and 80% meat so I dont need to sort this out myself.  In addition they also get pilchards, eggs and yoghurt.  I feed about 2-2.5% of body weight.

Pros for me have been improvement in my eldests skin - not as flaky and red as it was and getting all of the time, my other boy hasnt had a bout of sickness yet which for him a miracle and my young bitch just loves it but will turn her now up at kibble. 

Two my my dogs compete in agility so need a good diet to keep them fit and well. There are lot of people who raw feed in agility. 

I also feed raw, but I also keep a good quality kibble ( Orijen ) on stand-by for the times my friend is looking after them or when myself and the dogs are staying away, best of both worlds.

I have three dogs on three different diets (due to allergies).

My oldest is on half raw, half kibble. I give half kibble to balance out the nutrition. The kibble is "Taste of the Wild" which is very close to raw feeding as well.

My middle one is vegan, so is on a vegan kibble with supplements (Missing Link).

My youngest is on completely raw.

I don't feed whole bones though as I know a couple of people that have had major problems (one dog died and one had emergency surgery, both were on raw food diet), also my lurcher broke a tooth on a bone so am not keen anymore. They do however get ground bone in their raw mince so they do get bone, just not whole ones.

They are actually all doing really well on all three types of diet, are in good condition, don't look or act their age...

I feed Arden Grange to all my dogs. I used to feed raw as well but now have an older dog with immune system problems amongst other things and am not willing to take the risk of salmonella or bones causing probs. Never had a problem but my old girl would not survive such an infection or an op to remove a bone. So Arden Grange is to me is one of the best on the market and my compromise.

What bothers me the MOST about your average CAN of meat is that there is virtually no meat inside them at all. Some will only have 4 % of meat in total -same with cat foods. That's nuts. (That is also true for some dry complete foods, but more common for cans.)

I feed what is cheap and easy for us and suits the dogs too. I have ONE dog that is fed only raw, nothing else ever, and has been fed this way since he was approx. 6 months old. He can't tolerate anything else. I don't do any weighing, I don't add any fruit or vegetables or anything else. We get meat and bones from the butcher. We pay £5 per week for approx. 6 binliners full of it. (Only go every other week though due to the shifts my husband works, so a tenner a month in total.) We've had to buy 2 more freezers to have room for it all -but them I got on Ebay! We get chicken carcasses, offcuts of meat (can be anything), anything unsold at the end of the day, can be anything from sausages to chops or whatever, plus bones. This is all Rocco gets. You'd be hard pushed to find a dog in better condition. When the dogs are fed a meat meal, my husband just puts a few bits in the bowls, simply judging himself how much each dog should have. They eat that indoors no problem, it's gone in seconds, doesn't make the dogs smell at all. The bones however they are fed outside (for the big dogs) and we only tend to give bones once or twice a week at most as it never fails -after they've had bones they fart a LOT and it stinks. (However once the meat has been stripped off, they will keep their bones for weeks and chew on them and that causes no hassle.) The Papillons and the Cavalier get bones now and then but less frequently as a) they need to stay indoors to eat them and the bones stink when they have meat on, and b) their white ruffs get really dirty so they have to be bathed afterwards.

Rocco (Malinois) gets only the raw, the other big dogs get a mixture. There is no way I, as a vegetarian, am going to handle meat -I'd throw up. So during the week my husband feeds one meal which is then meat, and I feed the other meal when he's at work, and that is CSJ complete. (For Rocco he leaves me a bowl ready with meat in!) The toydogs are all fed Nature Diet as it has a high meat content and yes although it has rice added all of them can tolerate it just fine. They get the occasional meal of raw meat (as do the cats) but then it has to be cut up into smaller pieces as otherwise again it would take them ages to eat and they would get filthy. My cats get raw mince once a day (cans the other meal) and pups are reared on mince as well, as are kittens, and every now and then the toydogs get mince as well -THAT I can deal with. :)

SO, the meat and bones cost next to nothing, the CSJ is really cheap (less than a tenner for 15 kg), the only expensive food is the Nature Diet, around £9 wholesale for a box of 18 and we use 3 boxes a month.

In total I'd calculate, roughly, that it costs us  no more than £60 max per month to feed 16 dogs. And then we usually get more meat than we need so always have extra and sometimes give bones away to friends' dogs too.

My middle one is vegan, so is on a vegan kibble with supplements (Missing Link).

Interesting! Is there a reason for this?

My middle one is vegan, so is on a vegan kibble with supplements (Missing Link).

Interesting! Is there a reason for this?

As I mentioned in my post it is due to allergies (2 our of my 3 dogs have various allergies). Flash is allergic to animal protein and is on a vegan diet because of this.

Interesting about your papillons MarrianneB I feed my chi x pom so a hairy little thing raw. She has bones and meat exactly as my gsd does but her size ie chicken drumsticks pieces cut off lamb ribs and devours the lot. Obviously not as quickly as my gsd but will chew away for 10 mins I suppose. Neither dog smells except immediately after eating and both stay quite clean. Mia eats indoors on a piece of vet bed him outside. Strange how different dogs can be.
I guess its a case of you  try things a do what suits you both best as you said

Would a dog cope well with say, 2 raw meals a week and the rest a 'complete' food? I really do not think the raw diet is for me but looking at videos and information, it seems to be quite healthy and also something that they genuinely enjoy, too. It would be more suitable for me to feed it perhaps once or twice a week. That way they would be getting the benefit of the raw diet in terms of dental hygiene and it seems it is quite a 'recreational' activity for them too. Has anyone fed a half-raw diet in this way?

Thanks,
Josh

>I really do not think the raw diet is for me

It isn't for every owner, and it takes a level of commitment, but it certainly suits many dogs.  I'd urge you to do the research but I wouldn't advocate it to everyone. 

I love it for my dogs and I wouldn't go back to kibble.  You could start by giving the odd bone or meal of mince (inc offal) and feel your way from there, it certainly won't do your dog/pup any harm at all and some raw is better than none!

Yep I would agree with dogs a babe take it slowly and see how you go. Adding in some chicken pieces (sainsburys basics ) or wings here and there would be good anyway. When you first get your pup you will need to stay for a while with whatthe breeder uses any way just add some meat and bone here and there  

I was reticent at first when my dog was younger, but still gave him a couple of chicken wings for breakfast as he was growing up. I didn't feel ready to go for raw feeding all-out and besides, I had limited freezer space, limited internet access then (meaning no time to fully research it) and wasn't aware of local sources of raw food.

However I had known about raw feeding for many years as my younger sister had elected to put her GSD on raw food years before - fully researching it, via both the Lonsdale and Billingshurst books, and what was available on the net at the time. I saw her thin, dry-coated, nervy GSD youngster with various food intolerances blossom into a calmer, fit, full coated dog within a matter of months and have to say I was very impressed. The same dog passed away a few months ago at the age of 13.5 after an active problem-free life, just with expected old-age related ailments such as arthritis, in her last few years.

I've relocated and have more freezer space, as well as very good lcoal butchers - not quite got to the stage of ordering from wholesalers, but that may be on the cards now I have a second dog who is also raw fed. So it's taken a full 5 years to get to the 100% raw stage with my first dog but as someone else has said - even a small amount of raw has its benefits, but you will need to make adjustments to the main diet to avoid calorie overload.

I actually seem to be spending more weekly on food for my cat (fed kibble and cans) now than my 26kg dog!

would your cat eat raw?Mine are part raw fed - it cuts down on the cost,and they love it!

I know a few people that feed half and half, some raw feeding afficionados are up in arms (well, not literally) about this type of feeding, because of the different rates of digestion for processed foods.  It's adviseable not to feed kibble/raw at the same time, but again, I know people who do, and their dogs don't appear to be any the worse for it.  If you had a dog that had problems with it's digestion, in that case it would be one to avoid. 

I'd say two raw meals a week isn't a half and half diet, more like an occasional raw treat.  I have a friend who does this with her dog, as she doesn't have a large enough freezer space, and her dog seems to be doing great, which is a relief as I helped her to find the breeder. 

Can I just ask why the raw diet isn't for you?  I think I spend about two hours per week maximum sorting out bones from the butcher, and blending veggies etc, and storing them.  Bear in mind I sort out bones that I share with someone else who has about 20 working dogs, so I'd spend a lot less for just my two lumps.  I'm lucky enough to have two fridge freezers, soon to be three, where I can store enough for my two easily.  It works out cheaper and fresher than any other food I could buy, and they look great on it.  I know raw feeding isn't everyone's choice, and if your dog's doing great on a commercial food, then I don't see any reason to change, but just interested in why you've decided against it :)

Mum has decided to put Draco over to a raw diet, like the original poster we had difficulty finding how much veg and types of meats to feed, so he gets green tripe, chicken wings, and beef off cuts with carrots, natural yoghurt and the odd egg. However Draco is a little reluctant to eat it he loves the eggs, tripe and yoghurt but get confused by the chicken wings (takes him ages to eat one) and turned his nose up at the beef.

He has been on his new raw diet for just under a week hopefuly he will take to it a bit more.

As far as vegetables go, that's because depending on who you ask, they will tell you that either you don't need to feed veggies, or that they form an essential part of the diet.  I prefer to include them in small quantities, and give my two about 40g per day approx, making sure I give a good mix of root, leaf and pulse veggies, and trying to ensure I swap and change, so the don't always get the same in every batch.  I also include some nuts, spices and herbs in their blended veggies, as well as oil and apple cider vinegar, all have good health promoting properties, and/or help to repel unwanted travellers. 

It's the same for bones/meat, I don't feed raw beef mince, or any other mince, but others swear by it.  I also don't feed pork or beef as a meal, they get an occasional marrow bone as a treat, which I include as part of their diet, not an extra.  Chicken and turkey are the best all round meaty bones, as they have the widest nutritional range (generally speaking) and contain omega 3.  I also use lamb bones (rib cage and neck) which are non-weight bearing, and easy for any dog to manage.  I stick to those type of bones to form meals as they are from small/young animals, so the bones are less likely to splinter and cause any problems, which, although it is a small risk in any case, I prefer to minimise.  I also feed green tripe about five times a week as their breakfast, this is another one that some will claim isn't that good nutritionally, but after researching, I do think it has a place in their diet, and they love it. 

I agree green tripe is a very useful addition to a dogs nutrition

Green Tripe Analysis
Protein   13.33% 
Fat   12.75% 
Crude Fiber   2.99% 
Moisture   72.24% 
Calcium   0.1% 
Phosphorous   0.13% 
Lactic Acid Bacteria   2,900,000 gm
pH   6.84
Ash   1.25%
Calories   424 cal /225g (approx)
Iron   126.4 mg/kg  
Potassium   0.14%  
Managnese   25.7 mg/kg  
Zinc   23.11 mg/kg  
Selenium   0.31 mg/kg  

Thank you for all your help. The main reason I don't think it will be suitable for me is a combination of the fact we don't have a local butchers and that we don't have enough space in our freezer! We have a chest freezer and a small upright one for day-to-day things but adding another freezer to the house would not be particularly environmentally friendly!

My parents will also play a part in the upbringing of the dog and they are not keen on the raw feeding regime!

Josh

> would your cat eat raw?Mine are part raw fed - it cuts down on the cost,and they love it!

Yes, she used to eat raw and really enjoyed it, but in the last year or so has completely gone off it (cats, eh!!!) and can't be tempted at all.

My fussy puppy seems to have decided kibble is well worth eating after we cut her down to 1 meal a day - a bit young perhaps at 9.5 months, but I'd run out of options other than making her hungry enough to stop being fussy! I still give her a little snack in the morning, but nothing like a full meal. Hubby is far happier with kibble than either wet complete or raw type food, and as he earns most of the money I spend on the dogs, I do have to make compromises, and all my other dogs are very happy with kibble. I still have some of the Prize Choice and Natures Menu frozen stuff which I will gradually use up as extras on top of the kibble for all 3 dogs.

It's a shame about the butchers and freezer thing, I know I'm really lucky with our butchers and I only use one or two draws per week in my freezer, that's enough for two fully grown Labradors, I'm a bit sneaky in that I keep a bag of about ten portions in the fridge of chicken, freeze about ten portions in a bag and then swap them over after a couple of days, so the frozen ones are slowly defrosting in the bottom of the 'dog' fridge, meaning that they all keep for as long as possible without taking up too much freezer space.  The lamb bones seem to keep longer than chicken out of the freezer.  Obviously tripe needs to be frozen or it can get a little whiffy!  Plus I know I can nip down to the butchers mid week if I'm ever running low on anything. 

Not so long ago, I was in the green grocers buying up reduced veggies for blended vegetables, and I had a cocker pup I helped to run on with me; needless to say, a fluffy brown cocker puppy receives lots of fusses, and I was chatting to the people fussing him and one older lady was horrified I was feeding him raw chicken!!  I honestly thought she was going to try and take him off me, or report me for cruelty because she was adamant raw chicken bones will kill your dog.  Even when I explained that I had owned several dogs that had been raw fed, and they'd all done well on it, two were still very much alive and healthy, she STILL would not have it, she'd owned GSD's for 40 years and went off into a long lecture.  In that sort of instance, you just can't persuade people, and you're best leaving them to their beliefs.  Some people just can't get their head round the fact that dogs are built to eat this kind of diet, and that far from being unhealthy, it can be very healthy.

But if your parents aren't keen, and he's doing well on kibble, then there's no need to upset the boat.  If you want to give him a couple of raw treats per week, I'd suggest starting with chicken wings or carcasses, if wings, wrap them in a tea towel and bash them up with a rolling pin or mallet to make sure there are no large bits to swallow, or hold on to the end and encourage him to chew - the easiest way is to sit him inbetween your knees with his back to you, and hold the wing in the side of his mouth, even still, you may get nibbled.  Carcasses they tend to have to chew more and don't seem to try and bolt down.  I don't ever start off a dog new to raw with drumsticks or large bones that are more difficult to deal with, although they manage them perfectly fine once they're used to chewing, I prefer to use smaller softer bones from the wings and/or carcass of chicken. 

I don't really raw feed, but I've had the same conversation a few times over the years, people don't quite get the difference between raw and cooked bones!

>I honestly thought she was going to try and take him off me, or report me for cruelty because she was adamant raw chicken bones will kill your dog.

Tbh parrysite I think the freezer thing and your parents feelings are the crucial points to raw feeding for you. If you are able to offer some raw meat particularly things like chicken wings, pieces and carcasses or lamb bones occasionally or as often as freezer and parents feel is ok for them your dog will be getting some benefits.Wouldnt worry about the butcher situation at all, sainsburys tescos or whichever supermarket you can get to will be fine for small amounts both  on your pocket and for the dog. You can always change your mind as you go  when you feel confident and it suits your family.
As for being eco frindly with extra feezers, mmm have to hold up my hands and say with 4 frigdes and freezers I fail big time there and please whether you feed organic or not is another guilt trip particularly for you being I guess if you are veggie
Mine I am afraid have to have cheap meat my pocket doesnt run to free range or organic sadly

I laugh whenever I mention raw feeding for dogs as the horrified faces on some people are ridiculous. Someone told me they will get salmonella and someone else told me that I would be heading for a downfall as it gives dogs a 'thirst for blood'! HA! I'm used to this sort of thing with animals. I keep & breed tortoises which should be fed on a natural diet of weeds and natural flowers. Many people think I'm being a cheapskate by not buying salad and I even had someone tell me it was illegal to pick dandelions!! lol

I use a fridge to hibernate them as these hold the best temperatures and I always get told I am cruel and that they will die. I wouldn't mind buying the not organic or non-free range stuff. The meat content in canned or kibble dog food would more than likely NOT come from free range or organic so either way I'd be contributing to that 'market' so-to-speak. The eco-friendly thing is probably bottom of my list for not doing it but it is still an issue for me.

I've really enjoyed this thread as it's made great reading and I really appreciate everyone's perspective being added- especially without the arguing or heat discussions that can happen in animal circles occasionally.

I think for now I will feed 1 or 2 raw meals a week and see how it goes- who knows I might take to it and go full-blown diet or I might not like it and go with a high quality kibble food instead. What kibble/dry food does everyone use?

Forgot to add- I will also seek advice from the breeder of any pups and be guided by what they say, too. If the pup is raw fed it will have to be 'weened' off so-to-speak I suppose.

Illegal to pick dandelions !!! still laughing, I know they are supposed to make you wet the bed if you pick them .but illegal ! Getting any further with find "that " pup ?

The same person that I laughed at for telling me it was illegal told me that I shouldn't be keeping tortoises! Dillusional! I do wonder how many things they don't do because they think it is 'illegal'!

I have been in touch with a few good breeders and I am hopefully going to meet the parents of a potential litter that should be ready around the time I am taking them on. Going to arrange to go and visit when my parents can take me as I want to take my niece. All I've seen recently has been GSD dogs and pups- it's like when someone you know gets a new car and you end up seeing tons of them!

Josh

Oh yes I know just what u mean. Sounds like your getting on well good idea to take the family too

Hi Josh, I give my dogs a mix of complete with tripe, a raw egg (we have some busy hens at the moment), a raw chicken wing and they get this twice a day. They do really well on it judging from coat, condition and of course what comes out the other end :)

Illegal to pick dandelions

Clearly someone who has overheard "weed is a class B controlled drug" and got it wrong...

You're very lucky to have hens! I'd love to have some pet hens! Thanks for your input- do you feed 'green' tripe? (What IS green tripe actually, I've heard it a number of times but never thought to ask how it differs to normal tripe- if at all!)

Clearly someone who has overheard "weed is a class B controlled drug" and got it wrong...
ROFL- Clearly they thought I was on some sort of drug! Once a friend got asked why she was picking dandelions and she told them she was a white witch and needed them for spells ahah

Actually my hens have a pet human, but it's only a matter of perspective--thoroughly recommended for mental wellbeing.

The tripe the dogs get comes in frozen blocks from Prize Choice and is a pretty scuzzy greyish brown colour but I believe all 'green' means is that it hasn't been treated, e.g. scalded or cleaned--tripe au naturel. The white stuff some people eat doesn't provide any nutritional value for them.

The green tripe i get from TPMS does have a slightly greenish tinge to it :-)

Thanks very much guys- This is all very interesting and I've really really enjoyed researching about the raw diets. I've seen some videos on YouTube of dogs eating a raw diet and they seem to love it.

Hi, I'm a newbie on this forum so just picking up threads that look interesting.  I was someone that fed raw many years ago but now feed Fish4dogs Salmon and potato complete food.  I've spent years analysing diets etc and realise that what suits one doesnt necessarily suit another.  I veered towards fish and potato when I ended up with a dog with pancreatitis and years later with a dog that had a red meat intolerance.  I am a real advocate of feeding fish (most kinds) so was delighted when Fish4dogs came along with a high content fish complete food.  Its convenient for me and the gang and I also use their natural treats and salmon mousse when they have an offer on. 

wholeheartedly agree with you there but if you have dogs that don't have these issues then I fully advocate the raw diet.  In fact for my lot the change in them has been nothing short of fantastic and I always used to feed good quality kibble such as orijen, omni pro etc.  COuld never use fish4dogs - went straight through my young bitch with explosive consequences LOL