Before I get my head bitten off this is not my bitch I am posting about !!!
My friend has 2 SBT the bitch is 10 months the dog is 2, the bitch unregistered and the dog is KC registered. Anyway long story short, the girl was due to be spayed a few months back but my friends OH decided he wanted a litter from them, I went mad and persuaded her to get the girl spayed ASAP 1) Due to being unregistered 2) The male has killed several cats and goes for dogs when out on walks 3) The bitch has a hereditary skin condition. 4) the mountains of unwamted pups.  Anyway went to get her spayed and her skin flared so vet wouldn't operate, the bitch then came into season and the 2 dogs were placed in seperate crates. So say the dog got out of his crate and into the bitches crate in the middle of the night or so the 24 year old son said they did ?!?!?!?!  Anyway someone finally tells me that his happened, so I made it quite clear you can use Alizin upto day 45, the drug was given on Day 40 and Day41................................................................My question is as I have the bitch with me till the aborting bit happens I wondered what peoples expereinces are at this late stage ????  Vet said she could reabsorb but has known pups to be delivered still wriggling, hence her being with me as my friend and her family couldn't cope with this and vet said there was no need to keep her in !!!  She seems very settled with me in all fairness so hopefully isn't overly stressed.

Thanks in advance !!!

No experience with this medication or anyone who has used it, hope all goes well for the poor girl.

I was curious as to why they waited so long to abort the pups as they seem to know the mating took place from the off?

Yes exactly why ?!?!?!?  The daughter told me this may have happened then ironically I was in the vets with my girl when my friend was there getting said bitch scanned, after a lot of persuading and hounding from me and the vet the jab was done there and then. I have since heard another story of how it hapened but like I said in my last post the 24yr old son "heard" it happen, he owns the dog and his mother owns the bitch who incidently is tiny in comparism to the dog.  Anyway hopefully the right decision has been made and it wont be too stressful or painful for the bitch, who is a complete poppet!!

>after a lot of persuading and hounding from me and the vet the jab was done there and then.

There's more than one injection of Alizin required; did they go back for the follow-up? If not then you and the bitch could be in for a horrendous time. :-(

>the drug was given on Day 40 and Day41

The bitch was jabbed on consecutive days. So has had at least 2 injections.

I haven't used the injection myself but know of others who have. Pups have been born alive and have survived, but usually only one or two not a huge amount. So I would be prepared to have a singleton pup if I were you. Hopefully she won't have any but be prepared.

I'm surprised the vet didn't suggest spaying there and then as this would have solved both problems in one swoop.

Well hopefully it will work for the sake of the bitch and possible pups. As yet she still seems very relaxed and not unduly distressed. I cannot understand why she was not spayed rather than this either, I know she had a previous skin condition which was part of the reason for holding off from spaying at one stage but her coat is lovely now and her skin is very clear.

I was present when the vet said she WILL ABORT on friday but have sinced phoned the vets office today to be told it can take upto 6 days to happen, but not once have they mentioned singleton pups BUT I know this can happen because a lady down the yard has a dog which had a singleton pup after being given this injection very early after the mismate.

I guess my main question was what are peoples experience of whether their bitches have absorbed or aborted, especially as it was given so late. If the bitch is just going to absorb then she may as well go home when her family are back from work etc etc but if they will be aborted then its best she stays here.

Poor little girl has been so good, bless her !!!

> I haven't used the injection myself but know of others who have. Pups have been born alive and have survived, but usually only one or two not a huge amount.

Are you sure it was Alizin used (many vets are still not using this newer drug yet). 

I know of the above experience (single pups born), but it was using the older mis-mate jabs (usually Delvesteron).

That was the same thought I had -I've never heard of pups being born after Alizin. A lot of vets still don't use it commonly and so it's best to always request Alizin and not just request a mismate injection.

>Are you sure it was Alizin used (many vets are still not using this newer drug yet). 

>I know of the above experience (single pups born), but it was using the older mis-mate jabs (usually Delvesteron

Actually, you could be right about the drug used. I think the last one I heard of the vet refused to use the Alizin as he still had some of the old stuff. One pup was born.

I have heard that some vets are very unhappy about Alizin a it doesn't work the same and can cause more problems (sorry to the OP for mentioning this)

I truly hope that everything works out for the best for this bitch. What a situation to be in.

It's actually a more reliable drug, though they may not like the fact that used later it causes abortion rather than a non visible disappearance.

It definitely was Alizin as that is all our Vet will use, she actually used it on my girl 3 years ago very very early on. We didn't have a singleton Pup as a result but my girl did have big problems about a year later and as a result of all that happened she now has an auto immune disorder.

Alizin causes far less problems and have a higher success rate -plus of course can be given within a much wider window of opportunity. I opted to have a crossbred litter born from an accidental mating 9 years ago rather than using the old style drug (can't remember if it is Delvosteron or something else) due to the many possible problems such as pyometra, then a year ago when I had a mismating again used Alizin and there were no problems whatsoever. Bitch had a normal litter the following season following a planned mating.

>That was the same thought I had -I've never heard of pups being born after Alizin.

Through work I know of a bitch who had 3 weird pups after the Alizin injections, but she'd had the injections soon after the mating and was possibly mated again afterwards.

Did the scan say how many pups there was or was it just to confirm the pregnancy rather than numbers?

Spay during pregnancy is more dangerous due to the increased blood supply to the uterus etc., this may be the reason why this wasn't an option especially 2/3rds of the way through.

For the dogs sake I hope she comes through OK and she gets spayed before it happens again and send the male for the snip in the mean time.

Rhona

There were at least 4 pups seen on the scan, do the number of pups make a difference in the success rate of the jab??
The dog should most definitely be castrated, I am working on that one with the owner. To be honest when they first got the bitch they wanted to breed the pair but after lots of stern conversations my friend realised it was not a good idea and agreed to spay, just typical that this had to happen before it was possible to spay the bitch :o(

I was just curious as to whether it was a large number to be aborted or absorbed, whether for the latter to happen it is far into the pregnancy but I know one female who absorbed 2 litters at 7 weeks following traumatic experiences so it isn't unheard of I suppose.

Keep us posted

Well the bitch is still fine this AM she has devoured her breakfast and is happily laying in the garden but will keep you posted.
I very recently heard of a bitch reabsorbing at 7+ weeks due to a trauma also. I did quite a bit of reading last night and read that the skeleton doesn't calcify until 50+ days so I did wonder if that would be the difference in aborting or absorbing.