The breeder im hopefully getting my pup from put her girl to stud on sunday but said it was clear she wasnt ready because she kept sitting down.She called me last night to say she had tried again and for the first 10 mins she had allow him to mount and although didnt snap at all kept sitting down and looking bored so she is going to try again today.She says she has been flagging for 5-6 days now and allows all her neutered males and girls to mount and was laughing that it only seems to be the actual sire she is bored with.She is on day 13 today,ive waited a long time for a pup from her,the last time i was meant to get a pup the bitch missed and is now spayed,this is this girls first litter although the sire she is using is proven( only just) but she doesnt own him.Does this sound like she has missed or is she probably just not ready yet?

Umm don't know why the breeder can't just hold the bitch to stop her sitting down, most of us are capable of that.  Is she fairly new to breeding?

No she isnt new to it but thats what i asked her and she said she could just tell that the bitch was telling her she wasnt ready,she said that they are normally very flirty and keen.Im desperate for a pup from this litter so am hoping she just isnt ready yet.

>she said that they are normally very flirty and keen.

She should know that all bitches are different; she should be supporting the bitch.

So should she have made her stand up?

No force should be used; just a little support underneath her belly. It's very common for maiden bitches to lose their nerve at the last moment, however ready they are.

I just had a call from her to say she is now snapping when any of her own dogs go near her.She is on day 13,is it possible for a bitch to stand although not that interested,act snappy then be ready later or dos it look like sh has missed the boat?

Kenzi my first attempt to mate my bitch she was well up for it a total flirt but the dog had never been used and didnt have a clue and we never got a mating.  My next attempt I took her to a proven stud and she was the opposite, didnt act flirty at all but I think she realised this boy knew what he was doing and chickened out a little.  just with some reasurance and a little help we got there. With the right people to help at a mating it can make all the difference.  Good luck with your girl

I agree that a bit of gentle persuasion is needed, many females will be playful and flirty with dogs they know and snappy with those they don't for the first time.

The day of ovulation varies from female to female, then it is 24/48hrs before the eggs are ripe to accept sperm so it may be that on day 13 she isn't ready, there has been as early as day 4 to day 29/30 mentioned on here so it is a miracle we ever get pups at all.

Someone I was speaking to recently said 2 of her females will just not allow her male to mate with them but a third one will, who knows?

The breeder called me tonight with an update,she took her to stud and she stood perfectly for him but sadly got a slip mating( had to ask what that was!) She is not quite sure he was actually in when it happened but he pulled away quickly and they had to wait 20 mins for his bits to go back to the normal size and after that he was not himself so she is taking her back tommorrow.Im not sure if she will be too late by tommorrow,im keeping everything crossed!! How long do bitches have before they stop standing for the studs?

my girl went to stud in january, mating long in the planning, a ch male i have loved for years, fair bit of travel, took her day 13 and got a perfect mating very quickly...she would have been due on monday....Nothing, gutted. looking back now i think it was too late as she was flirty from day 8 but i was too relaxed about it i think and just thought she was being a tart! lol.

Well next time the minute she flags were off!

One of my girls had a litter from a day 9 mating, 2 years later a litter from day 21......they like to keep us on out toes :)

> She says she has been flagging for 5-6 days

Which can't be taken as a true indication for all bitches.  One of my girls flags from day 3 - she is a total trollop, because she certainly isn't ovulating. 

> Does this sound like she has missed

I don't think anyone on here can answer that question for you!  I had a bitch mate on day 28, so nobody can give you a standard reply. 

I know,just reading back on old posts i realise that,im not a breeder so i find this all fascinating.She is going back to the stud today so there is still another chance,i was kind of clinging on to the hope that something may have happened with the slip mating but the breeder said that although she isnt certain she is sure he didnt enter the bitch because she made no noise at all so im assuming she shouldve?I will be waiting by th phone all day today!!

The fact that your girl did stand yesterday (albeit with just a slip mating) would possibly suggest that she is now coming around to be ready for mating.  Hopefully, therefore, today she will stand again and this time have a tie.  I think its not unusual for there to be a slip mating if the bitch isn't quite ready.  Whether she makes a noise is not an indication of penetration.  My maiden girl stood rock steady with not a sound all the way through mating, despite the very experienced breeder assuring me that she would scream and try to pull away!

Thanks that gives me a bit of hope,fingers crossed for today .

A slip tie means the dog has penetrated but just not stayed locked in for one reason or another, not always easy to see if there is lots of coat involved, I tend to hold them together for a while just incase they are not tied.

It is possible to get pups from a slip tie as those breeders who have had planned/OOPS matings will verify

One of my girls flags from day 3 - she is a total trollop

LOL :-) Wish I'd got a total trollop. My youngest told any boys of her breed that dared come near that she'd rip their heads off if they got any funny ideas. However, my friend's little Norwich Terrier was a completely different matter. As soon as he appeared, she'd be swooning and flipping her tail over. I told her that I most certainly was not adding a new one to the designer cross breeds!!

Whether she makes a noise is not an indication of penetration

Yes, I agree, although some may make noise, many don't IME, so no real indication of a slip mating or not, the dogs should have been supported at the time if she was keen. I would generally view a bitch no longer flirting allowing her dogs to sniff or go near her and sitting down to meaning she had reached her peak, but perhaps she has become frightened.

She may well have already peaked from days 10-13 bitches are all so different, but her body language would indicate to me she has missed the boat, but there may still be a chance, difficult when not there to see things yourself.

Here's hoping for the best and a possible tie today. :-)

Yes, my Ellie never made a sound for penetration, though she sometimes whimpered as the tie began.

They are all different even within the same breed.
Ive had every permutation from a full on soprano performance lasting the entire tie of 30 minutes....to a blank nothing ( I had to have a good feel to see if anything had happened such was my girls total lack of response).

My bitch made almost as much noise about the mating as she did about the delivery - such a screaming, quite upset my friend who was with me and hadn't realised what to expect lol

Well i just got a call to say that although she was standing for the stud she kept trying to sit down at times and didnt seem at all interested,the breeder also noticed her rear end wasnt nearly as swollen as it was a few days ago,almost back to its normal size so possibly past the time and no mating occured.Im gutted because the last time i wanted a pup the bitch missed( different bitch),i have no luck! She says all is not lost because the mating last night may have been a slipped mating if he had his bits where they should have been,she couldnt quite see( hairy breed) but she said ( trying to explain it to me the best she could) that the mating was exactly like it should have been right up to the part where they shouldve tied,it appeared he was where he should have been and was fully erect when he finally pulled away( can this happen without penetration?)so im clinging on to the hope that sh might be one of the lucky few that get a pregnancy out of a slip mating.Has anyone had a pregnancy out of one slip mating?I wasnt even sure what that was until yesterday so have been reading up about it,keeping everything crossed.

> breeder also noticed her rear end wasnt nearly as swollen as it was a few days ago,almost back to its normal size

Just as an observation.  I have had visiting bitches for my boys, and there have been times that I wondered if anything was going to happen.  On more than one occasion, I have seen a massive reduction in the size of the vulva, assumed the bitch had gone over, and was totally wrong in my assumption.  I don't know why I doubt my boys, it's daft of me, because they are always right.

So, even if swelling has reduced quite a bit, you would be amazed at how receptive a bitch can be, just to prove you wrong.

Each time my boys have ignore a bitch until the last minute like this - the bitch has taken.

Leo my young male had a slip mating with his 'ladyfriend' she gave birth to 5 girls !!

Hi, a visiting maiden bitch, had 15 pups from a slip mating with my dog, who was also a maiden dog.

I have been on the phone to breeder this morning and her girl is definately finished so the only hope i have left is that it was an actual slip mating,she said the stud was definately going through the stages of mating right up until the tie should have taken place,she just isnt sure if he had actually hit the target because its a fluffy breed but his bits were apparently fully out( am embarrassed saying that!!) and the poor boy had to sit for 20 mins waiting for it to go down,his breeder said he was very confused because he knew something wasnt right.

Don't be embarrassed about the technical jargon when it comes to breeding, you are not having to say it so no red faces to see.

I hope that there will be pups 9 weeks down the road, if not then there is neXt time and the owner will have a better idea of what to do with this young lady then.

I hope so,the pup im waiting for is for showing so worth waiting for should she not take this time but being a possible slip mating chances are slim.

Just a quick update,6 weeks on and breeder is still not sure if she has been lucky enough to fall pregnant with one slip mating.She never scans which would have said one way or the other but she is very old fashioned.She said so far she threw up her meal once around 4 weeks,is very lethargic and slow and sleeps a lot too,teats a little bigger although not obviously huge and she generally looks and feels a bit bigger although there is no obvious pregnant tum but her ribs seem wider( her words),What do you think?Im no expert but am clinging to the hope she may be so i can get my beloved pup.