Hello,

I have a 3 year old beautiful beagle. He is an angel most of the time and is a pleasure to be around, definately a pampered dog (my fault of course)
But today we gave him a treat- a bone, he went into the garden with it as it was sunny as he always does when the sun is shining.
At first he stood by the back door and dropped it - as he does when he wants you to play with him (with a toy or something) so my partner went to pretend to chase him and he barked and ran away! We didnt think too much of it really, he is quite a vocal dog and this is usually how he plays. Anyway, while he was in the garden, we noticed he was trying to bury the bone... which at first we found funny- then I went into the garden and he barked and ran to the bone he 'buried' he had it in his mouth and ran away- I did chase him as I thought it was what he wanted but he barked again so I left him.
My partner then went out in the garden to bring him in as we were going for a walk but he growled and barked and was snarling and tried to chase my parter away from the bone. I kept trying to get him in but it was as if he was deaf, even getting his lead and saying WALK didnt make any difference, (that usually makes him run to the front door!)
We literally had to wait until he had finished the bone completely before getting him inside, he knew he had behaved badly because I told him to get to bed and he sulked with his tail under and got quite defensive.
We left him in bed for a while before letting him out, although that seemed a waste of time to be honest - he probably didnt know why he was in there by the time I got him in.

The thing is, with little treats- gravybones or whatever, he is fine- and with feeding at dinner time I could stick my head into his bowl next to him and he would carry on. He just gets really aggressive and defensive with bigger treats and I dont know how to handle it? I know the simple solution is to stop giving them to him- but he doesnt have them often and I am more interested in getting to the bottom of his behaviour than stopping something like that?
Please do give me some advice, Im not too sure why he is like it?

It's not so strange, he was just being a normal dog and in his eyes you HAD tried to take his treat away by chasing him. :) Try giving a kid a box of chocolates and then tell them to leave it or give it back.Then tell them off and send them to bed for NOT wanting to give it back or leave it -well it won't be popular. So the bottom line is he simply doesn't trust you won't take his nice treat away and you will need to prove you CAN be trusted. One simple way -which is what I do with my dogs, but I do have many -is to not just give ONE bone per dog -give four or five. In fact maybe even more -so many that it ceases to become one highly prized possession because there are so many. (That's also a good way to stop guarding of a prized toy -surround the dog by dozens of the same toy.) That should stop him guarding it so much because there will be too much to guard and each one won't be as special. And I wouldn't give a bone before there was to be a walk -better to give it after. Bones do keep them busy for hours so count on that. Yours must have been quite small one for it to be finished so quickly? We tend to give bones that will last for days and in fact weeks once the meat has been chewed off so there are always bones all over the garden. (We tell the oil delivery man that's what happened to the last person who came to deliver something! :) )

Normally the way to take something off a dog is to swap for something even BETTER, so the dog will happily give up whatever it is -but few things are as nice as a meaty bone. Hence if it was me I'd simply a) give several bones, b) not give before a walk, and c) make it a regular thing, then it will cease to be AS special. Christmas every week wouldn't be special. :)

> (We tell the oil delivery man that's what happened to the last person who came to deliver something!

LOL!!!!!
You need one of those signs up: "The remains of any trespassers will be prosecuted."

> he knew he had behaved badly

????  He didn't!  Dogs don't do guilt trips.  He had his tail under becase you cussed him!

perfectly normal dog behaviour, we have since banned bones for my pair due to fighting

Mariannes post is excellent and exactly what I'd have said.  You have to prove to your dog that you can be trusted around his special treats!

There are some treats that you expect to get back, stuffed Kongs as an example,  but meaty bones are the very top of the tree and there are few things a dog would swap it for (apart from another bone) so you have to take that into consideration when giving it.  I give my dogs bones in their crates or in different parts of the garden and at a time when I can afford to wait ages for them to finish (or get bored).

If you change your behaviour, your dog will change his. :)

Never used to give treats, then one day a friend gave our first dog the biggest hide bone you'll ever want to see (revolting) and after awhile tried to take it back. Our mild mannered hound turned into Mr Jekyll, no way would he let us near it, all alternatives ignored until we offered him our supper (steak). Agree with Mariannes post about treats and then expecting our dogs to willingly give them up, but since ours now get bones regularly if not daily they have ceased to become so highly prized. Meaty bones are given as part of their diet which are not removed unless problems and larger bones are left as recreational.
However when meaty bones are in the fridge it does not stop them camping out along side!

I always introduce bones to my dogs when they are pups and get them used to the bone being touched and taking bone away giving bone back ect. if a pup does object, i in a way do like, as it gives me the opportunity to let them know this is unacceptable behaviour. As adults I can give all five girls a raw bone and have no problems with me or each other, or anyone else for that matter. sometimes I give one bone to a choosen dog, the other wait paitently until it is their turn. the youngest knows she will have a long wait. 

Simple equation when you really think about it yourself....and then also consider it from the dogs point of view too.

Is the aggression aimed at you .... or is it merely a case of  PUT DOWN THE PANCAKES AND NO ONE GETS HURT :)

LOL! I love that thought, I'll definately leave the pancakes alone!!

I was mostly worried because I have a baby and when he is a little bigger I dont want my dog barking at his little brother lol!
Mind you, when I do give him big big bones, ones that would last at least a day, he doesnt know what it is so wont go near it- its my fault as I never gave him one until he was quite big!!!

Thanks for your help, glad to hear its normal behaviour xxx

I have to seperate my dogs for bones as the bitch feels they are hers alone and poor dog is....would be allowed none!

Karen

> sometimes I give one bone to a choosen dog, the other wait paitently until it is their turn. the youngest knows she will have a long wait.

oh thats so cruel!

oh thats so cruel!

Why?

Just to give the idea about what happens when you get wrong advice. My gsd was fine with food and stuff and around adolesence started pushing the boundaries a the result was bit. I took advice from someone who I thought knew what they were doing. Advice as follows put dog on longline to eat , remove bowl and feed on floor, then remove via line the dog at frequent intervals from food, only allow dog to eat when you choose.
OMG was that wrong! My dog got far worse. Finally I was given advice from someone who knew what they were talking about and told to start by adding to what my dog was eating and then eventually move to playing swapsies.
What adifference, he can still be grumpy if he has a large bone or carcass but far better and I can happily add food to what he has. maybe if I hadnt had the wrong advice initially I would have stopped the problem in the beginning.
So the moral of my ramble is add not take, OR you pinch my chocolate bar I will get grumpy !  

sometimes I give one bone to a choosen dog, the other wait paitently until it is their turn. the youngest knows she will have a long wait. 

Why do you do that? I can't see why you don't just give bones to all the dogs - it's very hard to give one something gorgeous and not give it to the others as well. I don't get it?

Lindsay
x

i dont get it either lindsay, my pair would fight at once, it seems like a fight waiting to happen

I know how you feel! My youngest dog (16 months) grabbed a chop bone off my plate last night - now I never, ever let the dogs have cooked bones so it was immediate panic stations as she is a determined little madam and will not give up anything without a fight :-) . I yelled for OH to bring through something tasty to get her to swap ( figured if anyone was going to be bitten it was better to be him than me! :-D ) . He came through with nothing (having not listened) and she immediately ran out of the room with 'her' bone. He finally managed to get her to drop it by giving her a bit of cold meat but she wasn't happy when she realised her bone had gone ;-)

I never give my three bones as my oldest one can also be possessive and I could imagine world war 3 breaking out in my kitchen! They are fine with normal dog treats, chews etc but anything high value has the potential to cause an explosion - mainly because little miss bossy boots can't see green cheese!

i dont get it either lindsay, my pair would fight at once, it seems like a fight waiting to happen

I have had dogs for the past 40 years. none are possesive when they have bones, either to each other or myself, so perhaps this would tell you my way, for my dogs at least, works. 

Yes, we have domesticated dogs, but that primitive lesson learnt in the wild works in our society also it would suggest.

I have five dogs and they are all well mannered, I would be mortified if one bullied another, never allowed it with children and would not allow it with the dogs.

My dogs would not be allowed to bully each other either, they all eat together (separate bowls) and will lie side by side eating bones. They have lots of bones and toys lying around and are not possessive. I just wouldn't consider giving just one of them a new bone or high value treat, I would think it would be like having 4 kids and only giving one a sweetie - making the others watch them eat it, you just wouldn't do it (or I wouldn't) :-)

>I would think it would be like having 4 kids and only giving one a sweetie - making the others watch them eat it, you just wouldn't do it (or I wouldn't)

Exactly my feelings too. Even if the others knew they were going to get one eventually, it'd still be unkind.

Adam

i didnt have the heart to watch that whole video but fron the little i saw it seemed that the dog in a cage was being tortured by a cruel person putting food in front of its face and teasing and tormenting it and then letting another dog eat it. it got zapped when it went for the food even though it was behind bars and couldnt get near the food anyway
it was outrageous adam and i dont know how you think that can cure a dog?

Is my breed extremely unusual then>?  My guys adore getting bones but every single Spanish I hve ever had has always just handed their bones to me when I've asked them.

> The best way to deal with it is to teach the dog to move away from food ect on command so that you can control his ablity to be near an object instead of the other way round.
>

The only reason a dog guards food/object is becasue it fears loosing the food/object. If you teach the dog it has nothing to fear, it will have no REASON to guard. POSITIVE ASSOCIATION can be used to teach ANY behaviour, even to teach a dog that other animals around food are GOOD & that the dog STILL gets the food so has nothing to worry about.

I couldn't wacth much of the video, I think it's sick. Training is about TEACHING - a good teacher explains things CLEARY, they do not need to raise thier voice in order to be 'assertive' over the dog. That poor caged dog, that was allready in a state about the food was being shouted at - this says nothing about the dog and tonnes about the trainer - the trainer is lazy and a bully.

My dog met his best buddy on his walk today, they love each other to bits and get rather excited about each other, they are both entire males - one a Rottie, the other an English Mastiff. I took a piece of cooked chiken from my pocket (Rottie smelt I had something tasty, sat down nicely, and I just couldn't resist his cute, smiley face :) ).... My dog knows the drill - if I give food (even high-value food) to any other animal, if he waits nicely he gets some next, so as he saw me feeding the Rottie some roast chicken, he sat down and waited patiently for his bit.
I have never had to raise my voice at him, cage him or zap him, I have used the GIVING of food to teach him that pateince, good manners & attention on me gets him the good stuff. He is very food motivated, to the point of barging me out of the way to steal food off the kitchen counter when younger, but a little bit of patience, & lots of well-timed tasty food and he now knows that all he has to do is sit calmly.
My dog will happily sit next to my tiny litle cat, I can give the cat chicken and he will not try to steal from her as he knows if he waits his turn he will get his next.

Just to make sure I've got my waffling message across - the GIVING of FOOD works wonders = the lesson seeps right in and the dog actualy WANTS to do what you are teaching it to. The biggest problem anybody has with any dogs beahiour is when they try to STOP the dog doing what it WANTS - dogs don't try thier hardest to do things they dont want to do, so if you harness what they WANT, REWARD them with what they WANT you then have a dog that WANTS to do what YOU want it to do, in a way you want it to do it...........Even if you put the dogs mental welfare aside, why would anybody choose to ignore the most powerfull thing there is to teach a dog - rewarding it with what it wants????
A dog that guards food, fears loosing it's food/ it wants food = use food to teach it it has nothing to fear from you when it has food - seems simple to me..........

A final thought, you rightly make the analogy between high value food and higher value money - why would anybody use an entire bowl of food and a bone to start training a dog that is food aggresive?????? Wouldn't starting with a low-value item be the most obvious choice to start with? Just another example of setting the dog up for failure (or making the 'trianer' look like they work wonders) :(

Wow, what a difference in training styles to the e-collar vid, an amazing difference in the state of mind of the dog - the dog actully appears ot be enojying the demonstration!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwxWm_rKtwo

Complete difference and a positive one too. I got part way through AP's video and i'm shocked and appalled that anyone can think that is how you deal with an aggression problem, regardless of his self indulgent ideas on the shock collars.

I purchased a book which would cover in dealing with this issue of aggression - food is in it and how to deal with it.

Jean Donaldson books - The food aggression only covers towards humans in it and not towards other dogs in the pack. I think the book is called Mine..Well worth a read and its not expensive and can be picked up cheaply on Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mine-Practical-Guide-Resource-Guarding/dp/0970562942/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301210524&sr=1-6

and this book is worth a read too - but is dog on dog aggression

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fight-Practical-Treatment-Dog-dog-Aggression/dp/0970562969/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301210524&sr=1-4

I agree with the others,what a sadistic video Adam,I couldn't watch all the way through either.So very sad,I felt sorry not just for the lab but the white dog in the cage that was trying so desperately to avoid the food.

> every single Spanish I hve ever had has always just handed their bones to me when I've asked them.

they are a retrieving breed, so maybe this trait is strong that they don't get as possessive as say a breed which has different drives accentuated such as hunting or guarding.

Funny because with their retrieving articles they can be possessive with LOL and guarding was one of their main jobs too.

The post disappeared. I guess due to user name.

Anyway here it is again.

I teach the dog to move away form the food, this is much safer than taking it from him as there is no chance of a bite.

This is similar to the method I use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL8QV3ZT2HA&feature=feedlik

Adam

Adam.

Is there any way you could try your training techniques on yourself when you get the urge to post, it would be   great if it worked.

Best wishes.

I just watched the vid, couldn't quite get to the end- made me feel sick. That is not dog training it's dog torture.

the is the E collar, if people need to use that then they should give up dogs, I have seen this collar misused, it is barbaric

> Adam.
>
> Is there any way you could try your training techniques on yourself when you get the urge to post, it would be great if it worked.

:-D :-D