hello
i have a mother and  daughter(border terriers) of 7 and 5 yr old which are both in tact,in the past the two of them picked on an old neutered bitch whose no longer with us.
But they are around season time and are having full on fights, will this die down and will getting one neutered have any affect ? i would be interested to hear peoples opinions they have never not got on before this

I had to rehome one of my bitches because she fought with her sister. Both were neutered so didn't have the hormone changes to deal with. Once they start to fight it is very difficult, if not impossible, to sort it out. I lived with it for a couple of years, first neutering one, then the other, to see if this would help, but it didn't I'm afraid.

Having bred and shown BT's for going on 25 years, when they start fighting it doesn't ever stop whatever you do.

They have very long memories and everything might be fine for a while and then when your back is turned they will be at it again.  Never ever leave them together with you not there, as you may come back to one or both badly injured or dead.

An old saying is dogs fight for breeding rights, but bitches fight for breathing right.

Spaying will not make a difference.  Unfortunately your only alternative is to rehome one of them.

You would be surprised at how many times I have had phone calls from owners with the same problem and rehoming has been the only answer in the long term. Sorry

I agree without the above post, a friend of mine owned mother and daughter, unfortunatley she had to rehome one of them, they would have killed each other.
I own 3 BT bitches unrelated, and thet all get on well.

Here we go again, electric shocks cure everything :-(

It's such a shame, in particular with their ages to have lived fine together for the past 5 years, usually problems like this rear their head much earlier, I guess the trigger is the older bitch passing over, even though you say they picked on her she obviously held their respect in that they were not vying for that spot of the top bitch, which seems to be happening now.

Have these full on fights drawn blood yet?

I do agree with others that once bitches start to fight, one needs to go, it doesn't usually resolve, neutered or not, however given the passing of the elder bitch and seasons blooming, I would personally just hold off for a bit, I would definitely keep them seperate until 3 weeks after seasons are over and then see if you can integrate them again. If they seem to live together ok after being in season, (which may well happen) then yes, personally I would get them both neutered for health reasons more than anything pyo and mammary cancers just being two and also if it is the only time they are vying for hierarchy positions it will stop that.

But, if they continue to fight even after their season then you have a lifetime of seperation to deal with or to re-home one as your only solutions. :-(

tatty-ead ... You are so echoing my own thoughts :-(

just to add theres the granddaughter i also have 10 months and a neutered male border and a neutered male rottie also?
and although the border was done at an early age given the opportunity he will mate and tie?
blood has been drawn and it was serious , but i feel they will be ok after although its whether they can be left unsupervised ever again....

They should be fine with training, re left alone together, it really depends, some people would say never do it others would say if they haven't fought for a long while they should be fine.

I don't think its a huge deal to separate them when your out tbh, just put one in a crate!

Long term effects!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmMAFKBuKg

Adam

its whether they can be left unsupervised ever again..

No, never again. Its too much of a risk, they have drawn blood, no matter how good things seem to be, never leaver them alone together.

I really feel for you regarding this.

I had to rehome one of mine in November due to fighting. One DDB (have a younger DDB also but she would just look on with utter confusion on her face and her head tilted to one side when they started fighting) and one Bulldog - got on fine for about 2 years, actually they were absolutely inseparable, would eat out of the same bowl at the same time etc and then one day they just started laying into eachother. I kept them separate for months but in November they actually started going at it through the dog gate and I ended up in hospital with a really deep bite wound on my leg where I had tried to split them up.

Although it was really sad, I decided to rehome one of them. I was gutted but the atmosphere in my house changed instantly and I haven't looked back since.

Can't figure out what triggered the fighting, nothing had changed with our routine etc so will never know what caused it.

Thanks for the replies,
Only recently I have started working part time after years of staying at home with the kids so they now be left for periods. Also having 3 kids opening doors all over the place keeping them apart permantly will be challenging. I don't believe in leaving dogs in cages for long periods either although I do use them.How on earth could you decide which to rehome? Its not a pleasant atmosphere to be honest.

> .How on earth could you decide which to rehome?

You rehome the easier of the two,this may be the younger or more outgoing etc. I do feel for you as it is a horrible choice to have to make. Good luck.

Kind Regards

A question to the people who have had to rehome, How did you go about it? as i would only want the very best of homes.
joelol

The breeder should always be the first port of call. If there is no breeder, you'd need to treat it the same way as finding a home for pups.

If the breeder isn't an option, is there a family member who could step in?  You would obviously need to be very sure they could offer a good home but it's sometimes a good option.

My mum was always the repository for her family's dogs.  When my brothers, sister and I were kids we often had relatives come to stay with dogs and the dogs never left!!

Joeloo
I had to re-home one of my bitches due to fighting, I had 3 at the time. One older and 2 close in years who were most involved in the fighting. A terrible decision and heart-breaking all round.  I made my decision on-
I wouldn't re-home my oldest - in her teens and had her for 10 yrs +
Who would benefit from being an only dog - most needy least able to share
Who started the fights
Who would get on best with older dog [actually didn't keep this dog as could see potential for future fights as eldest aged further]
The one that had already been spayed [microchipped too but that applies to all mine] so no possibility of being bred from.
Who was the most easily re-homed dog.
Which dog suited our life-style most as a dog to keep [relevant to breed specifically but also to personality/characteristics]
I could have sold Lou and possibly received 2/3/4 hundred pounds or more [recouping a little of what I'd spent on her] but I was more concerned about her future happiness and thought that I didn't have the know-how to evaluate a new home for her.  I did some research and had her re-homed via a general rescue society. 
They kept her in a home environment to assess her for a while, which I think is a good thing..  I did see the 'advert' for her  and didn't agree with their description of her - making her out to be neglected and somewhat pitiful.  However, I believe she went to a good home, as an only dog with lots of people to lavish her with all the attention she needed.   I also got some pics and info, at first, as to how she was doing.  I think that if you have a pedigree your first port of call should be your breeder, and if that fails, try your breed rescue.   I think these are likely to consider your knowledge of your dog, alongside breed traits, when re-homing more than a generic rescue society would.

They kept her in a home environment to assess her for a while, which I think is a good thing..  I did see the 'advert' for her  and didn't agree with their description of her - making her out to be neglected and somewhat pitiful.  However, I believe she went to a good home,

i thought most people re-homed their own dogs, not going through rescue? dont you know for sure if she went to a good home?

Hi,
   Just to say I had 2 gsd's that had lived together for approx 5 years,when one night coming back from training classes in the back of an estate car .Got into our road & all hell broke out as excitement at being home started them  off.
Once started fighting I think will continue .
I did not rehome but put measures into place .In the car they where both muzzled. When being left one was put in a crate.Both had been spayed for different resons ,One cause had lost her father with fits,so could not take any chances of a litter .Other one because she was very timid when outside home enviroment.
They continued to feed from same bowl +drink from same water bowl .
I was always aware that excitement could start them of so had to be very on top of things like going for walks ,OH coming home ,postman ,etc
Normal life was fine if no excitement for trigger !!!
I hope that you can find a answer for your problem.
Good luck & best wishes  Judy

well they are still at it ! given the opputunity

I really feel for you.It is a very stressful situation to live in when dogs are fighting.
Remembering to close doors behind you and making sure others do the same as well.
Its one thing saying you can live with that, what about the dogs? Think of the stress and anxiety that the dogs have to endure living in that state of mind, its not healthy..

Breed rescue is the way to go if your breeder doesn't have any direct contacts to put you in touch with. I personally would stay well away from general rescue if you can.

Going through rescue is in my opinion a good way of rehoming.....If you rehome yourself, how do you find someone? advertise in a paper? you could get anyone, unless you personally know someone who will take the dog. Using rescue gives a bigger range of options. It will usually find you a larger base of potential homes, and rescue societies will often temporarily foster in these situatios until a suitable home is found. They also seem to have a better system of home checks. I see nothing to criticise in using a breed rescue.

>>A question to the people who have had to rehome, How did you go about it?

I was very lucky in that my friend offered to take mine, it worked well for me because I know that she is safe, well looked after and I can see her whenever I like.

> i thought most people re-homed their own dogs, not going through rescue? dont you know for sure if she went to a good home?

Most people think Rescues are good, so nieve.  Yes i know it depends ont he rescue but are so many bad one there.  There was Goldie in one near me, the owners had a baby, so guess who get kicked out.  They even gave the pedigree paers in with him thinking they would pass them on.  The only reason I was apparrently going to have the papers is because i knew someone who volunteered there.

This place is one of those who give the puppy farmers an income and chance to restock.  A lot of theirs come from Ireland.

I think there is a big difference between breed rescue and general rescues. Breed rescue usually have a list of people already vetted and try to match the dog to the right home. General rescues, on the whole, don't give a damn who gets the dog, just so long as they have paid the money.

I was lucky in that the people who took one my bitches had already dog sat for one of my breed so knew what they were like. They took on another rehome (not rescue) a couple of years ago when the old girl died. Word of mouth is a good way of finding the right home as I recommended this family to a friend.

I recently rehomed another bitch as I felt she wasn't getting the attention she needed, she wanted a one on one basis, which I couldn't give with having 5 dogs. She is far happier in her new home, again, it was through word of mouth.

mine have just had another fight over a dog treat. all is quiet now the treats gone. i should have watched more carefully obv. does food fighting count the same as fighting for no reason? mine only ever start over treats. however, the dog who stole treat off other has a small cut on shoulder and i have 2 cuts on my hand from pulling them apart

Tina s
I've no idea what most people do to re-home their dogs.
Didn't go through rescue [assuming you mean a breed rescue] - not got any idea why I didn't - would definitely do if I was so unfortunate to be in this position again.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">dont you know for sure if she went to a good home?

This was the major reason I went through a rescue - I felt that they would be professional, experienced, and more capable of  judging whether the home was good enough for her or not.  I don't think anyone, even experienced breeders of many years can be absolutely certain that their dog/pup has gone to a good home.  I know that I did the best I could to try to get that for her. I have had some pictures and updates, in the first few months of re-homing, showing and telling of a happy outcome; all that I hoped for her.  However, I don't know absolutely.

I just wanted to say something about the food aggression.  My Akita will let humans go near her food, take her food...basically do anything with her food but let a dog or another animal go near it and all hell will break loose...she has been like this since I collected her at 9 weeks.  I obviously have to keep a closer eye on her but this has not caused me any problems and she is just coming up to her 6th birthday.  If it is purely food aggression I think this is easier to deal with rather than generally rivalry.

just paid £240 for 3 stitches in her shoulder! those vets are money grabbing ba**ards!

Tina,

If your girls are fighting over food or treats then i'd personally not feed them together or leave anything out which they can fight or argue over. Prevention is better than cure in these cases. Hopefully things will calm down for you and that is all it is with your girls..

Hope her shoulder heals ok.

thanks, i have thrown out the offending treats and now they only have instantly eatable treats so no danger of any falling on the floor and causing a fight (hopefully)

Adam!!! you have already had several of your posts removed, when will you get the hint?

Border Terrier Welfare are very very good and all homes are vetted, I do a lot of work with them myself, so can vouch for their integrity.  Do a search on the web and you will find the nearest representative to your area.

Sorry to hear things are still bad, in my opinion I'm afraid it would be the younger one who is rehomed purely because the mother has been with you the longest

Regards

Jayne

my vet bill broken down  said 10 mins surgery was £111, im not good at maths but i make that over £600 per hour! it puts solicitors in the shade!

Im racking my brains to thinks if theres anyone i know a the moment

You should be able to keep them, they just need better training!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5EF6HXIx94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856B598TVf4

Adam

Adam P

You have no idea about my dogs which i would say are the most well trained terriers you will ever meet!
Please don't post anymore on my this thread as i find it insulting and totally unhelpful!
Thanks

thanks for listening to my request

> If their that well trained why don't they stop fighting when you tell them?

Clearly you really have no idea about dog behaviour to make such a comment..

You are still on my ignore list, but just had to see what you posted for a comment from the OP.. And good on them for saying S** off!!

If you report his posts, Admin delete them.

You posted asking for help, so far the only person to advise anything other than ''get rid'' has been me!

Adam