does anyone know if dog de-barking is legal in uk? i always thought it was banned but at my vets the other day, whilst he was quoting the collosal £200 for my dogs dental, i laughingly said, 'its ok if you accidently cut her vocal cords whilst under the GA' and then i said its pitty its ilegal and he said its not.
My 8 year old has barked all her life and frankly, if i could get her de-barked i would, if its true that the dog itself dosnt know it cant bark (this is what i have heard).
but when i said, 'so is it possible to have it done?' he started hedging saying that it would only be done on a dog thats had many homes due to barking and had seen a behaviourist and it would be a last resort.
if it is legal then why on earth cant we as british owners pay to have it done as they do in the states? im only thinking of my neighbours and the stress the barking causes me as i worry im going to get complained about by them!
and before anyone moans about me, yes i love my dogs and would do it ONLY if it wouldnt harm them.

Sorry - both my dogs bark and would bark a lot more if I didn't make an effort to restrict it - BUT, I would never even consider having them debarked. I'd rather rehome them and get a stuffed toy dog instead.

It doesn't actually stop the barking entirely you know.  It deadens some of the volume, but they make a hoarse sound that I just couldn't bear.  Mind, my breed is bred to bark.

Yes it is illegal.

And debarked dogs aren't silent, they just make a really strange noise instead.

thats what i thought JG
so why did my vet say it wasnt? i must admit it threw me
and i do restrict mine from barking too but it is tedious 8 years down the line and with maybe 8 to go

This is what a debarked dog sounds like.

I'm amazed your vet is so out of touch. Did he train abroad?

Wow that is sooooo awful, whatever way you look at it its mutilation, i have to admit thats the first time ive ever heard of it.

i hadnt seen him before and he was very young and had an irish accent

have to say all those dogs seemed very happy, molly had no clue she sounded different and i dont think the others did either

> if i could get her de-barked i would

What a completely repulsive idea

It's a vile sound, much worse than a bark - she sounded almost like a donkey.

It's banned, along with ear cropping and declawing cats, because it's of no medical benefit to the animal, and is therefore inhumane.

> have to say all those dogs seemed very happy, molly had no clue she sounded different and i dont think the others did either

I'm sure Molly knows when her breathing is affected. The owners say it's a common side effect, do you really think it's worth it?

I'm sure dogs know they sound different just like we would.

Just for fun, I suggest that you watch the film Grown Ups (Adam Sandler) there is a labradoodle in the film which has been de-barked, (though possibly faked for the film) in America it is legal (not here) and the sound it makes not only sounds heartbreaking but IMO is far more annoying than a normal bark and it can certainly still be heard by neighbours, so quite what the point is I don't know. **shrugs shoulders**

as i said before, i would only do it if it were harmless
i havent heard of it affecting breathing
but as my question is now answered as i realise it IS illegal, no point debating further

If you read the note on Molly's video it tells you about the breathing issue.

It is illegal here, I have mixed views on it, certainly seems excessive and unnatural but they can still bark (which they enjoy) and seems useful to some people.

I personnally recomend a anti bark collar for excessive barking, you can leave it on when you want the dog quiet and take it off when you need/want a bit of noise!

Adam

OMG that's far worse than a bark!! Mind you if I could silence Hetty altogether..... :-D

Sadly, it's legal here in Qld and I think NSW as well.  Despite the procedure only being legal under the very strictest 'prescribed circumstances'.
I still think it's abhorrent and a 'cop out'.

eta The sound from a debarked dog is certainly very distinctive, and I hear many on my morning jog :(

> i do restrict mine from barking too but it is tedious 8 years down the line and with maybe 8 to go

Umm,,,   why have a dog?  

You say you love your dogs but would consider having their vocal cords cut?  How disgusting!  You are now on de-bark/ignore!

Debarking isn't even always permanent! Usually the vocal cords grow back and it has to be repeated. I knew a debarked dog and he was still very loud indeed. His owner said he used to be four times louder -well he was still loud enough (albeit a bit hoarse) to have been able to annoy any neighbour who didn't like barking dogs. I used to hear him over the phone when I called from the UK to the US and the dog was OUTSIDE in his garden -that's how loud he still was.

does anyone know if dog de-barking is legal in uk

Well, I know this site is great for learning more about every aspect of living with and caring for dogs but this is one thing I would have liked not to discover. I'm horrified that anyone could consider this an option--it's monstrous. Sorry to be rude, but if the barking is a bother get a goldfish.

What an awful idea :(

Why not train your dog not to bark so much?

I did it with all of ours - the first one I taught to bark on command, she now only barks if there's something to bark at - the rag and bone man, strangers etc.  I also taught her to "whisper politely" LOL

Two set each other off and were a nuisance to ME!  they'd even bark at OH if he went to the toilet or upstairs and then came back and they were getting worse as they seemed to want to outdo each other :(

We started "getting the wrong message"  - if it was raining we'd put them outside (horror!)  if fine we'd put them in the bathroom or back porch away from us humans (again Horror!) for a few minutes.   If they were outside in dry weather we'd bring them in immediately.

It had to be repeated A LOT at first as they felt they had to make extra effort LOL, but now they think before opening their gobs and aren't so reactive :-D

I didn't want to stop them entirely, just reduce the frequency so we could relax a bit.  I'd like to teach them all to bark on command and "whisper" but it's been more difficult to achieve with these two.

dill
i have always wondered how you teach them to be 'quiet' i know how to teach bark on command but how does it work to be quiet? it cant be easy or everyone would do it
and to the rude person that asked why have a dog? im certainly not giving them up after 8 years thank you and im sure many dogs hardly ever bark or have neighbours complaining- if thats you then you are lucky and dont understand where i am coming from
as im being attacked yet again i will leave
must remember not to have an opinion in future

> as im being attacked yet again i will leave
>

Attacked 'no', expressing an opinion 'yes'. Dogs bark, we moved to a house with a walled rear garden, great I thought at the time not thinking of the noise ricocheting off the walls. Wow the volume, just have to deal with it call them in when it's been going on too long or neighbours are in their gardens. Years ago in Sydney a little spaniel around the corner from my sister barked 24/7 in the garden, then silence, walking passed the house found the dog loooking distressed, still pacing by the gate and sort of grunting.  It's vocal chords had been cut, barbaric.

> im certainly not giving them up after 8 years thank you and im sure many dogs hardly ever bark or have neighbours complaining- if thats you then you are lucky and dont understand where i am coming from

No one is suggesting you do 'give them up', just deal with it by more humane methods such as input & training.

 

Geez, if I could get one of my de-whinged I would.  She mumps and grumps and whinges and whines constantly.  Flipping annoying!!  Like your dog tina, she is 8 and spent her life training visitors who would pet her and she whines as soon as they lift their hands off her which then makes them touch her again to shut her up. GRRR!  I can train the dog but training the human population is far harder lol

> im only thinking of my neighbours and the stress the barking causes me as i worry im going to get complained about by them!
>

This makes me really sad, how stressfull for the dog to have to undergo a surgery for no benefit to themselves, only to wake up never being able to communicate properly again. 

I too have known a dog that had been de-barked, the poor little thing was so determined to make herself heard that she put such huge effort into making that revolting rasping noise that she was constantly gasping for breath.

Instead of paying hundreds of pounds on surgery for a partial quick fix, the money could be better spent on a trainer to help you and your dog in a much kinder way.

> Umm,,,   why have a dog?   <img alt="confused" src="/images/confused.gif" />

A little harsh perhaps?

Soli is a swine for barking - much better generally but there are days when she barks every time the neighbours are out (which is a lot, and my fence is aviary mesh so she can see them clearly), at every pigeon, people passing, etc etc.

I go out every time and bring her in, and I have done for the last 4 years.  I adore her, I can't imagine life without her, she's happy - but yes, it is bluddy tedious at times!

Should I therefore not have dogs, because they exasperate me at times?

I didn't believe the 'bark on command' would work, but thought it worth a try.   As the dog was an only, I was able to get her to bark by having a 'stooge' open the gate and knock the door.  I just timed the bark command with that - a clicker made this even easier ;)   eventually she got the idea and began barking on command.  Then I got her to whisper by talking to her very quietly  and only clicking when she 'mphed' back - she already understood by then so that bit was easy.   She does still bark, but only one woof instead of hundreds and it's very infrequent - it seems to have made her more choosy :)

The other two have been more of a challenge, because even with the other one out of the way she still barks when I try to repeat the door knocking, and confuses them.  However, having reduced the frequency now, I  have something to work on.  It's difficult to get any training done when they are barking their heads off ;)  I think my best bet is to put 2 dogs in the workshop and only work with one at a time.

> Should I therefore not have dogs, because they exasperate me at times?

??? Who doesn't have a dog that exasperates them at times ??? :) That wasn't the point tho'. Dogs bark, we should either accept that or train them not to do it. The OP wasn't just having a moan about her dogs barking, she was suggesting doing something to stop her dog barking that most people find unacceptable. She raised the debarking issue and wanted opinions - which she got :) Going by what you have posted over the years, Nikita, you have shown, more than most, that you can put up with your dogs' difficult behaviour without resorting to unkind methods :) :) :)

just to make it very clear
when i say she has barked for 8 years i dont just mean bark

i mean EXCESSIVELY bark

i mean barking when neighbours are in the garden
barking when neighbours are not in the garden
barking when a leaf turns in the garden
barking when a frog farts in the garden
barking when people walk past the house
barking when people dont walk past the house
barking when cars drive past the house
barking when cars park near the house
barking when cars park on the drive
barking when people come in the house
barking when people leave the house
barking when people are in the house
barking in the middle of the night
etc etc etc

and i doubt i can train her because of her sidekick- my other schnauzer who eggs her on and joins in, its definately harder to keep 2 quiet
so for whoever said, if you cant stand a dog barking get a goldfish or why have a dog at all i would like to say what i feel but id get banned from this site

Separate them?

How long does the barking go on for each time, Tina s?

I got complained at for my dog barking 'excessively' so I kept a bark diary, and I quickly saw he was reacting to quite a lot of things during the day, but never barked for more than a few seconds each time (and I mean about 5 or so short close together barks). That certainly is not enough for complaint, it's when dogs are barking for long periods that the council want to get involved.

i tried a collar once, it was only meant to go off when the dog wearing it barked but it went off when the other dog barked and the dog wearing it started shaking so i chucked it immidiately

MsTemeraire
she would bark for a few mins prob before coming in herself but i usually bring her in within a couple of barks or asap if its after 9pm

Hi tina s, as the person who recommended a goldfish (for which I acknowledged I was being rude)--don't assume we all have well behaved non-barkers. I have a barker who probably fits your description of excessive barking quite well, but I'm not thinking of chopping up his vocal cords even though he has now turned the youngest into a barker too (and he has a particularly shrill bark that really does set teeth on edge) does and has no sense of decency where late or very early hours are concerned. They're especially bad with the mailman and the window cleaner, to the point where I have to ask for parcels to be handed in through the window...*sigh*...

I feel it's my responsibility, as the human that chose to get them, to get to the root of why they are barking even if it takes me all their lives or mine. I can understand it's very stressful for you, but if your dogs can see that it's a way of getting attention (even very negative attention) that's better than being ignored. They've spent a long time perfecting their response. You can either do the same, or resort to a practical short cut that, while legal, is barbaric.

>a practical short cut that, while legal, is barbaric.

But it isn't legal in the UK.

>> im certainly not giving them up after 8 years thank you and im sure many dogs hardly ever bark or have neighbours complaining- if thats you then you are lucky and dont understand where i am coming from
>

I have a breed that is innately vocal, part and parcel of breed type and required for the job they were bred fro.

I also live in a a suburban 3 bed house with lots of neighbours and with 6 dogs need to keep on top of any noise.

Training and management.

Never allowing them to be outside if they bark, stopping legitimate  barking quickly, keeping them where they cannot react to outside stimulus that causes barking when I am not at home.

I too wish they were less vocally inclined, so I wouldn't have to work as hard at keeping them quiet, but their good points far outweigh this negative aspect.