Just  thought I would post a cautionary tale here. I have just sold one on my puppies this afternoon. They brought the cash which I checked while they were here. It was in a bundle of £20 notes together so I counted it by just counting the number of notes. After they had gone as is my habit I sorted it into bundles of £100 each and that is when I realised that there were 2 £10 notes in with the £20s so the money was £20 short. I did speak to them later but they said that was how they got it from the bank.Now I know £20 isn't much but I just feel stupid for not checking the money properly.
Just thought I would post to warn other people to be more careful than I am. I have not covered my costs on this litter. Not that I do it for money but it would have been nice to not have such a big shortfall and it was such a stupid mistake.

Are they sending the rest of the money on to you? Its an easy mistake to make(the sort of thing I might do in one of my dizzy moods!) but I would have thought they would just apologise and forward the money on.

no. They said the money was right and of course I can't  prove it wasn't as only discovered the mistake once they had left.

Did the buyers not offer to send you a postal order or a cheque for the remaining £20 ? as if it was me and it was genuine mistake that is what i would do. But then i usually double check any amount i withdraw from the bank once they gave me a certain amount of cash , and then i went to pay a deposit for a hoilday and they had gave me a counterfiet note !!! i was so embarrsed in the travel agent ! i had to go back to the bank and fill out forms and then they gave me another £20 note. Hense why i when i get back to my car or inside the bank i re-check the money x

no they said they gave me the correct money but I checked it several times once I discovered the mistake. It has just  left a rather sour taste in my mouth as they seemed like such nice people. Hence the warning so others are more careful than me.

Not an ideal start to the breeder/puppy owner relationship is it? No wonder you're upset.

You will learn from this and it probably was a very genuine mistake by them (though if it had been me i would have offered to send the difference asap)

I know the feeling, somebody once gave me one hundred pounds short, but i realised and my husband ran to the top of our housing estate and stopped their car, there excuse was they were terrible at counting money, but the man still had the hundred pounds in his hand. best to count it all out in front of them, once they have left you carnt prove anything.

> Not that I do it for money but it would have been nice to not have such a big shortfall and it was such a stupid mistake.

I have to be honest and say that I don't think £20 is a "big" shortfall.

I have bought from top breeders, who count out every last note, and I hate it, it looks so mercenary.  I always want to recite " the king was in his counting house, counting all his money." 

I never check money when people come to me for a pup.  I would think that it looked as if that's all I was in it for.

Jean, I think that the OP was referring to the "big" shortfall with regard to all the expenditure and income on this litter rather than the specific £20

>best to count it all out in front of them, once they have left you carnt prove anything.

The trick, when taking money in your own home, is to ask them to count it out for you so that you can write them a receipt.  Watch them count it then if needs be just double check to jot down the number of each denomination of note on the receipt.  It's a gentle way for each of you to be reassured.

I'd be horrified to find I'd short changed anyone, and would prefer the error is uncovered before I left the house.  Anyone deliberately trying to underpay would expect the notes to be counted anyway

I paid for my first pup before collection, as we were on holiday in France and travelling straight to the breeder.  I didn't want the hassle of gathering money before we left either.  My 2nd pup was paid after collection and the money was late to transfer - I've no idea why it took so long but at least the breeder knew me and, I hope, didn't think I'd done it on purpose :)

We had this once not a puppy but a van we sold they gave us the money and quickly counted it when we double checked after they had gone it was £200 short .
Hubby phoned them and they said they had picked up the wrong money and would send the amount on need less to say we never got it it just makes me so angry how people can do this to other people without a thought .
once bitten twice shy as they say.
it is not so much the money it is just i don't understand people who do this kind of thing.

no the £20 was not a big shortfall and in the general scheme of things does not matter. I too hate counting the money out which is why I just gave it a cursory check.  The shortfall was caused by other things like the progesterone tests the emergency cesar and mums recovery problems. £20 does not go very far to offsetting those expenses.
I posted mainly as a warning to other people as if it had been a very highly priced pup I am sure an unscrupulous purchaser could have substituted several notes and may not be noticed. Unfortunately in this world there are some people who are less than honest

I never check money when people come to me for a pup.  I would think that it looked as if that's all I was in it for

I don't either. I thank them and put it away. Recently I found that a kitten buyer had given me £50 less than they should -but they had paid that price (i.e. £50 less) for the last kitten they had from me (cheaper for a reason) so I simply didn't say anything. Not worth it, the home was perfect, that's what mattered, and I don't think it was anything but a genuine mistake. It's the only time it's happened to me.

I always check the cash payments at work, saying out loud how much people have handed over. Once someone gave £20 too much, so they were very pleased I'd checked!

I think the best thing is if there are 2 of you - you can hand the money to your partner who can count it quietly (and feel under less pressure) whilst you continue the conversation with them and puppy distracts them too.  That way at least there is not dreaded silence whilst you're counting it out in front of them.

Well, apparently wrong amounts are not all we are going to need to check for. A number of people lately have been caught out with fraudulent notes.  This sends chills up me because not only are you diddled out the money, but what sort of person now has one of your pups?!
I was £50 short from one of my buyers but I didn't count at the time.  When I said later, they thought that was the price and we had a giggle and I told them to forget it.  I would rather stay on good terms than argue over £50.  And, on the day the pups left, they were all leaving an hour apart so I never had much time at all between pups so I hadn't counted any of the money just put it aside to count later.  When I did count, I had £50 extra.  I called the puppy owners from that morning but they all thought they had given me the correct money so I got my £50 back.  OH thinks I just mis-counted from the first pup!!

I never check money when people come to me for a pup.  I would think that it looked as if that's all I was in it for.

I'm very much the same, in fact I find it cringeworthy when they give me the money, I pop the envelope/money in a drawer and don't count it in front of them and usually when they have gone. No-one has ever shortchanged me, the way I see it is that these people have become like family usually a relationship built over a year, I'm trusting them to give my pup a forever, loving home, why would they not give me the right payment?

Helenzdogs, personally, I would not have called them over £20, for three reasons.

Firstly, it may be a completely genuine mistake, the bank may have made that mistake, which leaves them to believe that you are trying it on, which means now they don't trust you, and may now well not keep in touch.

Secondly, they may have done it on purpose, which makes them not very nice people. :-( Which now makes you feel you can't trust them, now they know that, again they may now not keep in touch.

Thirdly, once anyone is out the door, it's too late to say the payment was wrong, that would now have to be my mistake and I would have to just swallow it, as otherwise you have to take the risk as you did that they say it was all there, if you are going to count the money because you don't feel you know someone well enough, do it in front of them. (Though I guess you know that already now)

You lose whichever way you look at it, you didn't get the £20 and these people now have your pup, maybe with a bad feeling on both sides. :-(

Sometimes you have to weigh things up and for me the relationship with your pups owner would be more important, acting on impulse sometimes makes things worse with them not offering the difference, I don't know where that leaves you all?

It's horrible to let money get in the way, though I fully understand if that money was much needed, how upset you may feel, I just hope it hasn't damaged your relationship.........

i too dont count the money thats the only part i dread! i say thanku and put it to 1 side thay ask me to count it i say no i trust you and if its wrong then its wrong it will be my fault but never have i had the wrong amount given me.
xxxx

On the other side I hate dealing with money full stop. As a puppy buyer I don't enjoy asking how much the pup is being sold for. My name is on a list and I will pay whatever they say(within reason). I hand over the cash quickly, it makes it feel so clinical and almost wrong. I'd prefer to pay in advance(day before) of collecting pup as its not something I like to do, does that make sense??
Clearly neither side enjoy the part of dealing with the money it seems.

I never check money when people come to me for a pup.  I would think that it looked as if that's all I was in it for.
I've always said if I didn't trust them to give the the right money then I wouldn't be giving them one of my puppies.......  :)

It's the bit I dead also as others have said I have never thought to check the money in front of people, I just say a thank you and put it to one side.

Suejaw - i agree , I hate the giving part too - I always want the breeder to check it incase i have made a mistake,but I guess if they did it would look like they were counting all the spolis! therefore they never count it - and i feel shifty incase it is wrong ( its a large price in our breed ,in excess of £1200 so mistakes could happen) even though hubby and I count and re count! the breeders must feel the same as they always put it in a drawer.
I even hate asking how much they are to start with as it makes me feel like I'm chosing a bag and if its too high I wont have it - i would have the pup regardless but need to know how much overtime to do!! I usualy put that in my emails so it makes a joke of it.

Now we are fast aproaching our first litter its again something Im dreading - but from the other side.There have been some good points here - I think i will stick with the 'hide in a drawer and count later' for many reasons.If the home is perfect i wouldnt want to stir bad feeling etc.
I was so concerned about people being annoyed at the price of a puppy and thinking it was me trying to save for a pair of shoes that i have s=done a sheet in the puppy pack called 'whats in the price of your puppy?' - it lists everything from progesterone testing to heat pads,bags of shredder newspaper,wormer - everything!

> its a large price in our breed ,in excess of £1200

Ouch... But then again it doesn't surprise me that much with what breed I think you have..

With my last litter I had two owners transfer the money straight into my bank account the day before so it was in my account the day the pups left, so I gave them a receipt and thanked them.  They both said they didn't like 'cash' which is fair enough.

It was awkward when thinking what pice to put on the pups - i know our overheads are high as its a first time breeding - we lost count at 6k (all equipment and testing, stud etc ) and obviously a c section will make this rocket more.Something about charging less than the dam and sire grates on me too - its like Im saying the pups are not as good as them.
Its all very awkward

> two owners transfer the money straight into my bank account the day before so it was in my account the day the pups left,

That's a good idea.  I'd still keep an eye on you're bank account as they can recall the money depending on how they transfered it.  they might not know that though.

I don't mind handing the money over, I habd it to them ask them to count in case I made a mistake, that way they can do it whilst i'm there.  I hate asking how much.

must admit i dont count the money, but any pups i have sold i have become very friendly with the new owners before collection so i hope they would be honest, i mean if im trusting them with my prescious baby i trust them to handover the correct cash.

when i collected my last pup hubby handed over the cash while i was doing the other stuff, thebreeder counted it in front of him and it was wrong. Because she was so tired she appologised and asked hubby to double check her, It was wrong genuine mistake. I joked that he was complaining how much it was costing and the breeder joked to that shes earnt every penny so hand it over. i think by our reactions she could tell it was a mistake.

if she hadnt checked it and contacted us later to say it was short we would of paid up but there would be doubt as hubby was convinced he had handed over the right amount.

so in a long winded way im saying its best to check

I always count the money, but do it so that we both count, more as a double check than anything else. I used to work with money all the time and to me it doesn't feel wrong. I expect money to be counted when I buy a car, or a washing machine, so why not a puppy? For my own peace of mind, whether I was buying or selling a puppy, I would want to know that the correct amount of money was passed over with a receipt given stating the amount paid written on it, and what it was for (eg dog/bitch puppy) That way you are both happy in the end and you don't feel guilty if the wrong amount has been handed over. Never happened to me yet, but you never know ;-)

I hate the money bit too , as you say it is so clinical even asking how much is hard. I was really pleased when the person I am currently talking  to offeerd the information at some point in the conversation just casually. We both then moved on v. quickly.
I wonder if I might send a cheque in advance  or transfer the money as someone suggested so it has cleared before I pick up the pup. Hope fully the relationship I have has a buyer and one I want to keep in contact with particulaly to help me with starting to show would be a trust worthy one anyway.
Money dealings are always horrid imo

I always count the money, both as a seller or buyer for puppies and stud fees. As a seller, I wouldn't want to give a receipt unless I could be sure to write the correct amount on it. And once as a buyer when I collected a pup, I handed over my envelope and the breeder counted it out. She found it £50 short!  I said are you sure - I know I counted it carefully. We both looked again and the missing £50 note was stuck inside the envelope! If she hadn't counted it there and then, she might well have thrown the envelope away and thought I was trying to diddle her!

If ever anyone makes to put my money away without counting it, I always insist. Best to get it right for everyone's sake. Funny how we find the money bit so distasteful isn't it, perhaps it's a cultural thing.

This is interesting because I paid each of two different breeders with a cheque on the day I collected my puppy.  Obviously the cheque would take time to clear but they were both happy about it.  If I had been asked for cash I would have willingly given cash.

When I took cheques I always let them know in advance that the pups registration form would stay with me until the cheque cleared and I had the money in my account. If they wanted to send the cheque a few days early that was up to them, that way they would get the kc papers on day of delivery. No-one objected.

> I never check money when people come to me for a pup.  I would think that it looked as if that's all I was in it for.

Have to say I am the same just tuck it in a pocket, I do ask for cash though, hate the length of time cheques take to clear and if there is a problem it usually turns out two weeks later and you get bank charges.

Have had one or two buyers pay by direct transfer with on-line banking, which is great,a dn very trusting of them as they have done it the day before/day of collection.

I was so concerned about people being annoyed at the price of a puppy and thinking it was me trying to save for a pair of shoes that i have s=done a sheet in the puppy pack called 'whats in the price of your puppy?' - it lists everything from progesterone testing to heat pads,bags of shredder newspaper,wormer - everything!

What a good idea!

> Suejaw - i agree , I hate the giving part too - I always want the breeder to check it incase i have made a mistake,but I guess if they did it would look like they were counting all the spolis!

I get round this when paying by counting it out to the breeder they don't have any choice once I start and it takes the awkward feelings away because it is my choice to do this. I usually say something like Right I'd better get you the money and as I do so I count the money out before they have a chance to say anything.

When buyers come to buy a puppy, I usually say to them that they are getting a well bred pup from health tested parents and as such there is a contract to read through regarding their responsibilities to the dog and my responsibilities as the breeder then before they sign I check the money with them at that point. I think because they are also thinking about the contract at the same time is just makes it easier. I have never had a problem with it and I have never had anyone say that they felt that I was after the money only.

> I get round this when paying by counting it out to the breeder they don't have any choice once I start and it takes the awkward feelings away because it is my choice to do this. I usually say something like Right I'd better get you the money and as I do so I count the money out before they have a chance to say anything.

This is similar to what I do when purchasing something from an individual rather than a shop.  Either that or I ask them to count it in front of me so that I know I haven't made a mistake.  It's so easily done.  Then they don't have to feel uncomfortable about counting, and it's a triple check for me as well (I've usually counted at least twice).

I hate taking money - in fact when I sold my litter last time it was the buyers who handed me the money because I'd pretty much forgotten to ask for it (oops), but I did count it just quickly as much as a double check for them as for me.  I trusted them all completely - we had all been in contact for at least 6 months by that point.

BTW - it's not just for puppy buying/selling - stud owners should always check as well when being given the money for mating...

Although neither a breeder nor looking for a new pup, Ive enjoyed looking at this thread and reading your caring attitudes.   Were I to look for another puppy be sure of one thing, Ill be knocking on your doors!!

My gorgeous beautiful handsome Golden Retriever will be four next month.   His breeder - who also judges Retrievers as well as vets homes in her area for rehoming - didnt bother to give me a receipt for my boy.   I went to see the pups soon after they were born and paid a £50 deposit which I received a receipt for.   There was no further receipt for the balance of the payment which we paid them on collection of the puppy and neither was there been any contact from the breeder to see how he was getting on in his new home.   For the first six months or so, I emailed photos so they could see what a superb boy he was growing into but on the final time, they pointed me in the direction of their website...so we had no further contact.   My experience with this breeder taught me that they dont appear to have any feelings for their pups - the money is paramount to them and it makes me very sad.

How refreshing for me to read your views.

M

I always check cash infront of the puppy buyers, as once I had finished counting the money & was £50 short so I questioned the buyer & he pulled £50 out of his pocket!!!

As a puppy buyer I would always want to count the money out for the breeder.  From my point of view it proves how commited and honest I am that Im not just going to slide an envelope across the table for it to be slid quickly into a drawer by the breeder.  If they did that I wouldnt be thinking that they were looking out just for the money, it would almost feel like an 'undercover' purchase.

The reason why Im always so careful is that Ive already had my fingers burnt by someone I had got to know and thought I trusted.  I bought a pedigree cat many years ago and I had been saving for ages for a kitten from the line I wanted.  I withdrew the cash from the bank, they counted it out to me and I took it home and counted it many more times just to make sure it was all okay.  I gave it to the breeder in an envelope, she stuck it in a drawer and took my kitten proudly home.  I had a phone call 24hours later to say that it was a whole £100 short!!!  I was horrified and told her how many times I had counted it and it was almost impossible that it was short especially by that much (kitten was £250).  All I had to prove it was my bank withdrawal receipt and that I had no reason to withhold that amount of money.  I later discovered that the breeder had gone into bankruptcy and she had tried to do the same with another kitten owner.

thats so sad! :( money can make ppl so different! money problems or not i could never do that to any1....did she try to make to send it ???
xxxx

> For the first six months or so, I emailed photos so they could see what a superb boy he was growing into

You're the sort of puppy owner I look for.  :-)

I never used to check the money whilst the owners were present, it felt rude somehow. That was until someone once short changed me £150 !!!!! I rang them when I knew they would be back home (they lived a good 4 hours away) and they were very apologetic and immediately put a cheque in the post, which ultimately cleared no problem. They said it was a genuine mistake and these people had been on my list for several months. This was about 7 years ago but ever since I have always counted it in the presence of new owners.

When ever I give money to a breeder I make them check the money. I always say to them "Could you check it over for me incase I missed any". That way I know they want to check it but are being polite and I know that they know I am honest with them. :)

I'd for sure want to know about how pups I've bred have developed - I'd have thought this would be about good breeding practice too - after all, who knows what health issues or temperament problems might rear their heads later on?

I've just finished a draft of our contract and the final point is:

SECTION 10:  FUTURE CONTACT

The Purchaser(s) are advised that the Breeders will always be interested and happy to receive photos, videos and updates relating to the Dog.  The Breeders invite the Purchaser(s) to stay in touch throughout the life of the Dog.

I must admit photo updates are a must.

My oldest girl's breeder still gets picture updates once every month or so.
My newest pup's breeder has had 5 emails of picture updates in 4 weeks.

I think if the breeder has put in all the hard work and the heart ache the least you can do is keep them updated!

LOL I still send photo's of mum and a boy we kept from the litter now 9 months old to all of the buyers many don't reply but I don't mind because I want them to feel that we do still care and think about them, so if they ever need to talk to us its not so weird. I do send paper cuttings and club books to the oversea's homes as little surprises in the post one or twice a year, because if they are anything like me I love looking at the pictures of dogs from other countries esp our breed where they can look so different (i know im a strange one) LOL.

There is always two of us in the house when selling a puppy either me/ mum, Tasha/ me or Tasha/ mum so that when one is going over the contract and puppy packs with the buyers the other can check the money and double check all the paperwork is in order before the puppy goes just incase mum or me forgot anything.

I must admit we have never been down on money but have had extra and when handing it back they have said keep it as they could see how much time and care we put into the litter.

just take the money in a different room to 'get their receipt' and count it out of sight-easy

Good suggestion.  Unfortunately though if it's short they can still accuse you of taking the money out - that's why it should always be counted in front of the person (buyer or seller) even if it's uncomfortable.

I dont count money and will happily take cheques.

When all the paperwork is being done I slip the envelope into my puppy cover note book.

Having only one litter a year on average, I seldom use this book so was surprised once to find 2 fat envelopes many months later...nice surprise.

I tend not to mention money to my puppy owners and they seldom ask the price so when they come to collect they give me a cheque or call on the way to ask how much cash to bring.....

NEVER in over 30 years has anyone shortchanged me or bounced a cheque.