My girl is now on day 18 of her season. Well...19 now as it's almost 3am. Maiden, (all tests done) & booked to go to  Stud. We've been waiting for this mating for ages & have been really excited. I don't do ovulation tests, in the past I've relied on my boy to let me know when she's ready, but he passed away in August, but my young boy has been very interersted & today I put him on the lead in the garden & she's tailing. My Vet taught me how to do an internal test to see if she is 'open', which I've been doing since day 10. We came to the conclusion that she had a stricture, but on examination it showed to be just a very tight vaginal opening. I'm hoping she'll 'open up' in the next 24 /48 hours, but if she doesn't, we'll call it a day & put it down to experience. Just wondering if anyone else had been through the same thing? I've been told that she can change within hours...hence the reason I'm awake at this ungodly hour. As soon as she's open enough, we have to set off on a 5 hour journey to our chosen Stud Dog. Any help or advice appreciated xx

Do a pregesterone test ! - honestly I've never heard of waiting for the bitch to be 'open' - this litter is obviously important to you so why not do a simple blood test and pin point exactly when to take her to the stud - it really would take all the guess work out of it !

Yvonne 

agree 100% with you!
xxxx

Do not wait for the bitch to be open if she is ovulating

3 years ago I had a bitch come to one of my boys.. I looked at the girl and she still looked and felt like a pre-season puppy (she was 4 years old and a maiden)  I knew I would not be able to do a mating with a girl this tight, and telephoned a very experienced breeder to help... I took dog and bitch a 2hr drive.. and within 5mins of both being out of the car, we had them held tight in a slip.   one mating and 9 weeks later, 8 pups.. I would never have been able to do it without a 3rd person...

If she is ovulating.. phone owner of stud, explain, and let them decide.

Edited to add, just read you have not tested for ovulation.. you really need to do this before travelling... if she is a girl who does not enlarge, she may have ovulated a while ago, may be in transition, or may yet to begin... TEST.

> if she is a girl who does not enlarge, she may have ovulated a while ago,

Very important observation.  This happened to me, and I would never have got this girl mated if I hadn't tested next time round.  She ovulated on day 4.  So agree 100% in this particular instance....  TEST

Thanks guys..my vet says she has a condition similar to Vaginitus. ( I think women can get that too) He says her Vaginal passage will never open, so no point doing tests. She also has a 'tilt' inside, so we're going to have her spayed when she's over her season. It's such a shame, I was looking forward so much to a litter. We have the option of taking her litter sister, when she's ready. She had a litter 2 years ago, so we know there are no problems with her. It's a totally different colour combination, but I still may get the pup I'm desperate to keep. Thanks everyone for your input..I'm just going to enjoy my girl xxx

He says her Vaginal passage will never open, so no point doing tests.
Vaginitis is just inflammation of the vagina, not a permanent disability!

She also has a 'tilt' inside
So she's an up and over bitch!  Many are and still are mated and whelp with no problems.

Sorry, I'm not sure how much experience your Vet has of mating/breeding etc, but I'd still be Idexx testing NOW! :)

I so agree with WestCoast. Do you know if your vet "approves" of pedigree dogs and breeding, the advice seems very negative and final!

One of my girls has a tilt - had two litters no problems.  She won't 'open up' until she's reading for mating.  I don't think you vet is helping you very much.  As someone else suggested, many vets are not particuarly helpful when it comes to breeding.

I would get onto Idexx straight away as you're losing potentially valuable time.  My vet takes the blood and we have an Idexx lab relatively local and results back same day.

Don't give up yet.

I foolishly used this 'finger method' last year with my maiden bitch after been advised by another breeder. i checked her and she was 'open' then double checked an hour later and she was tight so dont think its something to rely upon. The stud told us that she was not ready - she had gone over.
She is now in season again and ive used the first idexx test yesterday, results this morning say its too early - hopefully we will get somewhere this time.

Hi again...sorry I missed these posts. I just zonked on sofa after many sleepless nights. The word I was looking for was 'Vaginismus' I've copied this info as my Vet says it's the same in bitches. Yes...he does breed. Small breed dogs.

Vaginismus, sometimes anglicized vaginism is the German name for a condition which affects a woman's ability to engage in any form of vaginal penetration, including sexual intercourse, insertion of tampons, and the penetration involved in gynecological examinations. This is the result of a reflex of the pubococcygeus muscle, which is sometimes referred to as the "PC muscle". The reflex causes the muscles in the vagina to tense suddenly, which makes any kind of vaginal penetration--including sexual intercourse--painful or impossible.

A woman suffering from vaginismus does not consciously control the spasm.

But how can your vet be sure this is the problem - he knows she has a ' tilt' inside ?? It could be pshycological (sp) or shes a little frightened with her being maiden.

He used a Speculum (sp) a device which is inserted into the vulva..but had no success with that either. I was present when he tried to examine her, but wasn't allowed to be there when he tried to insert the instrument. I think she's beeen through enough. I'm not so desperate for a mating that I would put her through any more. Yes it's a shame, but it's not the end of the world. I do appreciate all your help, so to anyone who has replied & offered advice...I thank you xx

Personally, I'd listen to the experienced breeders on this board - they have far more practical breeding experience than most vets ;)

I know it's a 5 hour journey to the stud dog, but could you go and stay locally?      Personally I've never tried to check with a finger, manipulate etc. especially with a maiden bitch.  To me, if the bitch is ready then the dog will know - Ovulation testing will let you know so you can travel.

It sounds to me like you are writing off a chance of a litter with your chosen bitch and dog just because this vet hasn't been able to insert a speculum/finger   Unless this vet is a very successful dog breeder and has breeding experience with your breed, I'm doubtful that he has the relevant experience?  there's world of difference between reading about it and doing it ;) 

If you feel this bitch has been through enough, could you wait until next season and get her Progesterone tested next time??

I am not a breeder and obviously you  are making the right decision for your bitch.

Just a thought if you weren't allowed to be there

1) are you happy and comfortable with your vet I have had this with my vet in the past and now expect to be present for most procedures (not ops) as I think it helps the dog and the vet agreed once he realised I wasn't a completely neurotic woman

2) vaginismus in humans is a psycological problem. Now I dont expect you to put her in counselling ! but do you think the environment at the vets and having the speculum inserted could have any effect on her reactions albeit it a subconscious reation would she be the same if in season and ready to mate ?

Only you can make the decision, but, I am going to tell you a little story

I have a girl who is sounds exactly the same, she never enlarges,and also has a tilt, and the 1st three times I tried to mate her, we got nowhere, not only could the dog not penetrate, she flipped, on her back, sides, ran around on hind legs... she was enjoying herself.. I was distressed, and had to let someone else handle her... I thought stud owner was going to allow a rape.. and took my girl home.. decided not to mate her, ever...

following season, a friend suggested using another dog, and she said I should not be around my girl (hid behind a door till needed) and she would handle her.. it was a 3second slip and my girl was off up the garden... I got 3 pups

That was it.. decided never again... until 3 years later... I took her to a boy who had just arrived from the states... again, she had no intention of letting the boy anywhere near her.. played, teased, and ran amock... again, owner of stud sent me to hide behind a shed... took them both into and enclosed run... She spotted a bucket of water, and forgot to keep an eye on the boy... while her head was in the bucket, the boy mounted and she automatically tied.. for 20mins.. and 9 weeks later, I got a fantastic litter of 9 pups... 4 are doing well in the ring... (Polly taking 4 Puppy G1's in a row)  :-)

Wait till next season now, then test, when result state she is ready, go to the stud... If it doesnt happen, then at least you will have tried.. sometimes we regret doing things, but more often we regret not doing them...

We can only give our views and experiences, but the final decision is with yourself and what is best for your girl.

Hope that helps in some small way

Hallo Ruffnready. You sound a totally responsible person who cares more about your bitch than a litter. Thank goodness there are people like you. I admire your decision not to breed her but to spay her. Don't be swayed by other opinions. Yours is the one that counts as you so obviously love your bitch and put her welfare first. Well done.