I have never been away without my dogs as we have our own tourer and always take them with us.  This spring however, my parents want to take us all away for a week, which I was delighted about as I'd love some sun right about now but I've run into a slight problem with kennelling.  I don't vaccinate my dogs.  Well, apart from puppy vaccinations but since then my dogs haven't had any boosters.  The breed I owned before had auto-immune isuues and many breeders/show people didn't vaccinate and shared research into why you shouldn't so when I get a pup, regardless of the breed, I will never give annual boosters again.  But not I have this issue of kenneling.
I called round a couple of local kennels this morning to get them booked in(and the cat) but no-one will take them without up-to-date boosters.  Any ideas on what I can do now?
OH wants me to book the dogs in for boosters but it's not as easy as that as my 9 yr old will need to re-take her puppy vaccs schedule again(as will the others) and I don't vaccinate for a reason which I truely believe.  I don't want to batter my dogs immune system with un-necessary medication for the sake of a holiday!
Also, I don't want a stranger staying in my home looking after my dogs either so that's out too.

There are some kennels who will accept a titre test as enough but they are few and far between and would take some tracking down. Distance to travell may be a big problem too. If you are addamant you do not want a house sitter then you are in a bit of a corner really. Just incase it helps I have dog sitters and they are brilliant. The girls love them and I like to  know my home is safe too. If you are worried about them snooping (though to be honest it is more then thier jobs worth) put anything "special" in one room ie bedroom and put a lock on the door. They won't mind at all.
Aileen

you can do a blood test to check they are immune but it costs almost as much as the vacs and most kennels have never heard of it. i know there is a lot of disagreement about vacs but i wouldnt send mine to a kennel that accepted unvac'd dogs! you would have to have the whole course again, mine went 18 months once between boosters and i had to have the whole puppy vac done again. im sure most of it is to line vets pockets obv.
if you dont want a dog sitter you may have to say no to the hol

It seems that you have four choices:

1) Get them immunised
2) Get a house-sitter in
3) Board them at someone else's house, not a licenced kennel
4) Not go on holiday.

Depending on the vaccination used you should not need to re-do the puppy vaccination series, one treatment is sufficient.

Helen-jane, thats not what my vet told me! i had to have the whole course with 2 weeks between the jabs and my vacs were only 6 months late and my dogs 5 and 6. i suppose it depends on the vet

You could randomly write some serial numbers in the relevant slots on the vaccination card and sign them, thats enough for most kennels :)

>i suppose it depends on the vet

No, it depends on the vaccine manufacturer. They won't pay for any health problems resulting from not following their procedures.

>You could randomly write some serial numbers in the relevant slots on the vaccination card and sign them

Jane, that's fraud. :-( And again, your own insurance wouldn't be valid if your dog became ill. We often get kennels phoning us to confirm an animal's vaccination status.

I don't go away without my dogs now either.

However, when I did a few years ago I managed to find a kennel who would take them as they were homeopathically treated but only if it was not in peak season when they would be full.

> your own insurance wouldn't be valid if your dog became ill

I'm guessing the op dogs either aren't insured, or are insured with someone who doesn't insist on boosters. There are companies that will cover unvaccinated dogs but not obviouxly for illness that they could have been vaccinated against.

> I managed to find a kennel who would take them as they were homeopathically treated but only if it was not in peak season

I don't understand this. Surely they either insist on vaccinations or they don't.... or they somehow have less principles when they're quiet and desperate for business :-)

>I'm guessing the op dogs either aren't insured, or are insured with someone who doesn't insist on boosters.

Picture the scenario if another dog in the kennels picked up something and the insurers found that there had been unvaccinated animals there. If the vaccination cards are found to be incorrect (and many kennels keep photocopies in case of claims) then the claim would be against the person with the unvaccinated dog, not the kennels ...

> and many kennels keep photocopies in case of claims

Do they? None of the kennels I've worked at have, they just have a passing glance at the cards. If a dog becomes ill you don't go looking through everyone elses vaccination cards to blame someone, and I've never known insurance companies to ask for a copy either.

But yes, you are of course right it is fraud and shouldn't be done :)  this one isn't worth arguing about :)

Tina s if your dogs are fully vaccinated and I presume this is because you agree that it prevents illness why would it worry you for them to come into contact with non vaccinated dogs. If that is the case it si the non vaccinated dogs that are at risk not yours?

To be honest I have always felt it is up to individual owners to keep THEIR dogs (and cats) safe, not for them to keep others safe. I.e. if my dogs are vaccinated they won't get ill, if somebody else's dog isn't vaccinated and gets ill that's their own fault.

There is also the other scenario that your dog could introduce something to other dogs in the kennels - unlikely, I know, but a possibility, but of course all the other dogs in the kennels WILL have been vaccinated so not a risk ............... :) :)

Daisy

> To be honest I have always felt it is up to individual owners to keep THEIR dogs (and cats) safe, not for them to keep others safe. I.e. if my dogs are vaccinated they won't get ill, if somebody else's dog isn't vaccinated and gets ill that's their own fault.

Agree - but a kennel owner doesn't want to have to cope with an outbreak of disease in the kennels, so is totally reliant on the honesty of owners so that all the dogs in the kennels ARE vaccinated.

Daisy

I would phone round a few different vets and try to find one which won't give the whole puppy jab sequence again.

It is crazy that a vet (or vaccine manufacturer) would want to do that:  The reason pups have 2 jabs is because they are so young for the first one, that they might have some of their mother's antibodies still in the blood, which may prevent the 1st jab from working.  The 2nd jab is just incase that happened.  With an adult dog, you don't have this issue of maternal antibodies, so there's no chance of the 1st jab not working. 

Sigh...

I don't give annual boosters to my dogs after my last dog died from an adverse reaction to his booster aged just 3 :( so I do know how you feel.

There are kennels that will accept your dogs with either a high titre reading or homeopathic nosodes (administered by a vet and their card signed) I have found a kennels which are not too far from us, which I use when I have to leave the dogs and can't leave them with our neighbours.  The dogs are also raw fed, so we take their meals prepared and frozen. 

The other way is just giving them one booster, dogs never need a whole course again no matter what age - even as puppies they only need one jab the reason 2 are given is the first is usually given too early and it cancels out the immunity they have from their mothers.

I will pm you the link to the kennels I use.

Well, I have called my vet today and to do the double vaccs again(which is required as it's been too long for a booster) will be £63 and for the annual booster it would be £50.  It's not a cost issue.  It never has been.
My dogs and cat are all insured and the insurers are informed that I do not do annual boosters which is fine so long as I am aware that they are not insured for anything they should be vaccinated against.  I'm fine with that.
I have actually had an offer off a family member to take the dogs to her house and my neighbour could look after my cat but I'm not sure.  It's quite hard to go from one dog to a pack, I'd imagine, but it might be my only option if I want to go.
I don't think I could sign the vaccs book as I'd need to get the little sticker too.  I have no problem doing that at all.
Thing that's annoying me is I know this kennel took in a dog last year without seeing a vacc book.  I was looking after a friends dog but he kept jumping my 6 foot fence and I have a busy road beside me and my lot were not getting along with him at all and he was the world's worst house guest!  If I kept him in a cage, he would bark and howl, if I let him outside he would run off, if I gave him run of the house he would pee everywhere and fight with my lot so he had to go.  I phoned up this kennel and explained that I didn't have is vaccs book cos his owner was away and they still took him anyway.  I don't understand why they are so strict now?  My mum thinks that I should have just booked them and 'forgot' the books as she thinks they would still take them anyway.

If I ever have to go away without the dogs, then the dogs go to friends and members who have the same breed.

quite agree marrianne and daisy :) Think i will stop there before I cause a vaccine row

I don't think I could sign the vaccs book as I'd need to get the little sticker too.  I have no problem doing that at all.

so you are a crook?

As an alternative to kennelling (as someone has said, kennels that are happy to accept titre tests are not the norm) I've used http://www.barkingmad.uk.com/ a few times over the years and been very happy with them. Dogs go to host home and I don't think there's an issue with vaccinations from what I recall. That might be an option for you, it was more expensive than kennels but not significantly so.

Not as much as my blinkin vet, Tina!!  They should wear masks.  And if you read my post, I did say I couldn't do it(not wouldn't thought!!).
Trialist, we have them round our way too but I don't think too much of the company.  It's a franchise and the person round here isn't/wasn't doggie.  It's just all about the income so I wouldn't trust my dogs to them.  I think that's my problem actually.  I don't trust my dogs to anyone other than a place that's going to keep them locked up!!  I would be devastated if anything were to happen to them for the sake of a holiday.  Gosh, I'm talking myself out of it allready!!

It is a franchise, so may well vary from area to area. Certainly in my area it was operated by someone who was very clued up & thoroughly vetted host homes - I know, I became one!

It would seem it's coming down to a house sitter then :-) or no holiday :-(

Some vets are now doing less 'full-on' - intervet (who manufacturer most of the vaccs, by the look of their website) recommend a 3-year schedule: everything in year 1, then leptospirosis for years 2 and 3 (i think, it is on the site though).

I'm not keen on doing everything every year either, but as I also kennel from time to time (and the agility club I'm looking to start at insists on vaccinations) so mine will be restarting this year (2 years out of date).

If that's a possible option, email intervet - they let me know where the nearest vet was that followed their schedule.

> my 9 yr old will need to re-take her puppy vaccs schedule again(as will the others)

This is untrue despite what some vet practices will say.

A booster is a booster is a booster. 

Your best bet is to have someone stay with your dogs to look after them.

Trialist, without giving exact details ( in case we put on stripy jumpers and come round whilst your away) would you be able to give the rough area you are in, just thought there might be someone on here suitable. The other thing that may be a possibilty is if there are animal colleges in your area that could provide someone as part of their work experience ( obviously subject to references)
I am going to be in a similar position in March, my dogs are on nosodes, thankfully my homeopathic vet told me of kennels where they accept them if I am stuck , maybe try a homeopathic vet to see if they can reccomend anywhere.
My 4 will be staying at home, just got to persuade my grown up kids that they have to walk them.
Last year I was on an island in the Grenadines e mailing home for updates, drove myself mad with worry!!

Trialist, without giving exact details ( in case we put on stripy jumpers and come round whilst your away) would you be able to give the rough area you are in, just thought there might be someone on here suitable

Not me looking, it's cracar!

And I am away ... should I be worried?!!

on an island in the Grenadines

Aww, now you're showing off ... I think I'd like to be on an island in the Grenadines instead of farm sitting somewhere in soggy Lakeland.

I thought that boarding kennels would lose their licence if they took unvaccinated dogs. As a dog minder I wouldn't take an unvaccinated dog and put mine at risk and I don't take unvaccinated dogs at my dog training classes. Yes mine ARE vaccinated, but the oldies only have lepto now, especially as one has had cancer.  I can't see the aversion to getting a GOOD dog sitter to come in, even if they were not allowed to walk the dogs. They wouldn't be walked properly in a kennel anyway so it is no different and they would be comfortable at home. I have never had a snoopy dog sitter! Can't understand the "I'm not having strangers in my house" attitude. (It is usually the men who are so silly!) Get to know someone by walking with them, having them round for coffee, etc. Instinct should tell you whether they are trustworthy and get someone recommended. It's that or no holiday. I do it and I am the World's worst worrier about my dogs and it has only been people that I truly trust with my dogs who have minded them. They are a hundred times more important than possessions in my home.

> I would be devastated if anything were to happen to them for the sake of a holiday

There's your answer then!

I know I said I wouldnt but... please would someone give their reasons for feeling their dogs shoulnt mix with unvaccinated dogs ? If vaccines work and I presume those of us who vaccinate agree they do then being around an unvaccinated dog should be fine for those dogs but not for the unvaccinated dogs who could in theory pick up something or catch something a vaccinated dog maybe carrying but not suffering from.
Kennels I can understand the point of not wanting to risk an outbreak between unvaccinated dogswhich could affect their business. Also the same with training classes the vaccinated dogs are not at risk otherwise surley if makes a mockery of having vaccines ? Its not just contact with other dogs that transmitts infection other things can transmit to.

As I said I am not provoking a row I am just fascinated with the logic behind what we say about the two groups of dogs meeting The more I think about the more upside down it appears to be
Ps by non vaccinated I mean any dog that is not fully up tood ate according to manufactures instructions

ok folks over to you

Sorry, got confused who was going where and replied to the wrong person!! After the year we had last year our holiday was to stop us going ga ga :(

Hope you get it sorted.

One good thing about insisting on dogs being vaccinated is that is does ensure that the dog gets to see a vet on a regular basis :) Some owners are not good at spotting possible health issues or wanting to spend money at the vets :) :) :) I know of a couple of instances where a trainer asked to see a dog's vaccination record, just so that the owner had to take the dog to the vet ....... :) :) :)

Daisy

Some owners are not good at spotting possible health issues
Now THAT I do agree with. :) :)  I've spotted numerous pyometras, infected ears, eyes and other quite serious health problems in the grooming parlour of which owners were completely unaware.

I've also spotted a fly blown anal abcess on a matted OES that was bought into me on his way from being collected from a major dog charity! :( :(

But to vaccinated unnecessarily just for a health check doesn't seem right to me.

> But to vaccinated unnecessarily

But that just depends on one's view of vaccination :) :) :)

Daisy

> But to vaccinated unnecessarily

But that just depends on one's view of vaccination :) :) :) What is the greater risk ?? :)

Daisy

But that just depends on one's view of vaccination
Oh sure I'm not a supporter ;) but I'm meaning vaccinating against the manufacturer's instructions, ie full booster annually which some Vets down here are still doing. :)
Although it's not for me and think the risk of over vaccinating is worse, I couldn't object if Vets were working within the manufacturers' packet insert. :)

I can only speak from my experience of two vets - miles apart :) My previous vet has operated the three year system since, at least, 2005 and when we moved to Norfolk my new vet does the same :)

Daisy

If vaccines work and I presume those of us who vaccinate agree they do then being around an unvaccinated dog should be fine for those dogs but not for the unvaccinated dogs who could in theory pick up something or catch something a vaccinated dog maybe carrying but not suffering from.

This has always interested me too. If yearly boosters are so wonderful, owners of vaccinated dogs have nothing to fear if their dogs come into contact with unvaccinated ones.
Personally I think kennels should be satisfied with a clean bill of health from your vet but, as I say, that's just my own view.

I know it's a whole different debate but do nurseries refuse to take babies and toddlers whose parents choose not to innoculate them against measles, mumps, chickenpox etc etc...? 

ooo theres agood one lois p

> but do nurseries refuse to take babies and toddlers whose parents choose not to innoculate them

But they can telephone the parents and say 'Please come and collect your child who is ill" and, I assume (never having used a nursery) that the child is then kept at home until it is well :) :) Kennels can't ring owners if they are abroad on holiday :) They just have to cope with the consequences for the duration :) :)

They just have to cope with the consequences for the duration :-) :-)  Kennels can't ring owners if they are abroad on holiday
Yes but their licence says that they must have a quarantine section and so they can remove any dog showing symptoms. :)
Unfortunately many kennel staff don't know what to be concerned about.  Anyone, with no experience, can open a boarding kennel.  It's the premises that are licenced.

Its one of those things that is probably going to need a change in the law before it gets through to establishments that continue to perpetuate myth and therefore endanger our animals health....boarding kennels...agility clubs...training classes.....insurance companies...certain vets....to name a few.

If the one year vaccine was withdrawn from the market altogether then at least that would be a start when the three year vaccine already exists. Personally I'd like to see it go further than that even.....and that if a dog has had its first puppy series (preferably by single vaccines) then the vaccination card should be valid for life and accepted in all establishments....and by insurance companies.

For those of us who use Homeopathic Nosodes then a "certificate of supply" should be as acceptable as a vaccination card.

As for me and my gang then their health and welfare is too precious to me to even consider vaccinating them just so I could go on holiday. I would prefer to get someone I trust to live in and look after them (That would be one brave and slightly mad person then :) )

As for the debate in humans then in 1988 my daughter experienced side effects from the MMR so in 1990 I insisted on single vaccines for my second daughter...and my research back then meant that by 1995 I chose not to vaccinate my son for anything at all. My son has had the least illness out of the three of them...(much to his dismay when he was younger....as it meant he didn't get any time off school :) )

A good enough reason I reckon....for those of us who would prefer to only minimally vaccinate our dogs and cats.....to support Canine Health Concern with their Stop The Shots campaign    http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/

> and my research back then meant that by 1995 I chose not to vaccinate my son for anything at all. My son has had the least illness out of the three of them.

Proves very little :) Both my children had every vaccination going and were rarely off school as children (I can only remember taking them to the GP once each). My BIL had four sons. The first son had the whooping cough vaccination, but then a scare happened and the other three ddn't have it. Of course, when a whooping cough epidemic started all three boys had whooping cough quite badly and the oldest didn't.

The first son had the whooping cough vaccination, but then a scare happened and the other three ddn't have it. Of course, when a whooping cough epidemic started all three boys had whooping cough quite badly and the oldest didn't.

But what that also means is that three of the boys now have their own natural immunity to whooping cough....

If a disease is not life threatening and contracting it would mean just a few days of illness followed by natural immunity then I can't ever see a reason to vaccinate against it..?? Especially not with all the other stuff that is also in the needle...like foreign DNA and carcinogenic substances.

>If a disease is not life threatening and contracting it would mean just a few days of illness followed by natural immunity

The diseases that are vaccinated against are life-threatening; they can cause death or handicap ...

In 2002 Whooping cough caused 2.5% of all deaths of children under 15 years old .

My question was not the pros and cons of vaccinating but why would someone who vaccinates be concerned about their dogs being in the compny of unvaccinated dogs.
Same with children if there is an outbreak of measles in school I dont worry that my child is likely to catch it as they are vaccinated against it. i know there are always failures but thats the risk of living

Jeangenie you are right but that is the risk we take to vaccinate and hopefully avoid the illnes but take the risk from the vaccine itself or not to vaccinate and risk permenant disability or death that is something for each individual to weigh up. Not an easy position for anyone.
I hate the forms that came home regarding vaccines. another repsponsibilty to take

My children are now old enough to make their own choices (18 and 21) my daughter elected to have hpv and is now advised to have hep and bcg due to her work. I am not comfortable with her having them but then I am also not comfortable with the risks of not having them either. We have talked and she has decided to have them as they both do with flu vaccines.I choose not to. I do however support them making the choices themselves sorry gone off at tangent again !

Ok....so how does the "science of vaccination" explain away my 13 month old youngsters who have only ever had Homeopathic Nosodes..??

On Titre Testing they have antibodies to parvovirus....which means they have come across parvovirus.....and are alive and well...??

And when we talk about Lepto....where are the figures to show how many dogs are dieing of Leptospirosis..?? How come so many dogs have lived for so long before the introduction of the Lepto vaccine...?? And is it more the case that we are seeing a small increase in Leptospirosis illnesses because the vaccine is introducing the very disease....that in theory it should be protecting against...??

And why if Leptospirosis is such a dreadful disease...why are people not vaccinated against it as well...??