was at the vets today with a bunce of animals from work and a couple came in with a loverly longcoat black and tan GSD and some one said to them is he an alsation? and they replyed yes he is, his breeder is proud of the fact they breed alsations and not greman shepards, he is 9 monts but sadly has a problem where his body grows too fast for his frount legs. the did say a name for it beggingn with A but cant rember it.

Ive has someone try to explain it befor but the photos they showed me all looked the same to me. ive hurd people say about germatic type, american type english type and alsations are nto the smae as GSD, so could someone more inlightened explain and possible show the diffrent types.

thanks

Alsations and gsd are one and the same breed regardless of the colour or coat. The name Alsation came during the 2nd world war and people still use it as if they are different breeds. The other myth is that long coast are gsd and short coats are alsation again no.:)
Cant remember the exact date this year but the kennel club have now said that the only recognised name for the breed is german shepherd
I am a bit worried about a breeder who "is proud of breeding alsations and not gsd" doesnt sound well informed to me.
As for the difference between germanic, english etc I will leave that to someone who is far more articulate than I to explain that one its more to do with how they look and areal hot potato many an argument comes from which people prefer. Btw I have a longcoat solid black gsd I wonder what they would want to call him!
Hope that helps

Just about to type that and furriefriends beat me to it! :-)

Any 'breeder' who has the view they are different I would seriously stay away from!! LOL. Reminds me of another 'breeder' who told me never to castrate a male as the testicles only grow back after a few months! 

'breeder' who told me never to castrate a male as the testicles only grow back after a few months! 
Gob-smacked

Someone posted this link some time back and I saved it :-)
It shows some of the difference in shape/construction of various 'lines' (for want of a better word).
the most visible differences are the back-line from neck to root of tail and angles of back legs.
Hopefully someone who knows more-can explain better will come and add to this / correct me.
Chris

Oh barking mad that is so funny  testicles that grow back you sure that man was serious !

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

  is there  red face I can put on ? posted above but forgot to paste the link.........ooopps

lol regrowing testicles!

so its no longer registered as german shepard dog (alstation)? ive lurnt something new allready.

Yeah ive seen people arguing over how the sheperds look on other forum so hoping this will stay to what types are what rather than who thinks which are good or bad, ill get labled as an argument starter :)

thanks for the link is great.

> Reminds me of another 'breeder' who told me never to castrate a male as the testicles only grow back after a few months! 

PMSL

> Reminds me of another 'breeder' who told me never to castrate a male as the testicles only grow back after a few months! 

ROFLMAO!!  :-)  :-)

I am almost crying here!  I've heard it all now.  Thanks for the laugh.

I knew someone had the information on the differences ttaty head thanks far to complicated for me to explainlol  . I will stick with what I like. Nice solid straight back long haired ones with nice temperments please  called german shepherds :)
Just to make sure as I didnt quite understand what you typed they are officially all german shepherds now regardless of background or type.

they are officially all german shepherds now regardless of background or type.
Quote selected text

They always have been GSDs -  it is two names for the same breed never have been two breeds although looking at them you may think so.

I liked the link, it displayed all the different variations on the same theme without being judgemental.
I am very glad to see it also included some details on breeds that are NOT GSD's and not even related ..... I am so tired of being told I own an "Alsatian" LOL

LOL Temeraire - even we get that believe it or not - just shows that slopping coup is not something that the GP notice or they would know that neither yours or mine were GSDs. Reckon the only thing they notice is the ears.

> Reckon the only thing they notice is the ears.

Ears and colour.... all dogs that colour are Alsatians... Surely you knew that? ;)

A lady on another site was recently told by an anxious mother pulling child away, her dog was a long-haired Dobermann... and Dobermanns are dangerous.

(She has a Gordon Setter....LOL).

I had a guy AT  bornmouth champshow last year ask me if my Japanese Spitz was a Bulldog and did i need to know where the ring was.

Now that is plain daft everyone knows a bulldog has no tail - suppose he may not have known your did either so perhaps there is some excuse!!!

> I had a guy AT  bornmouth champshow last year ask me if my Japanese Spitz was a Bulldog

Were you just beside the beer tent, I have to ask? lol
I hope you directed him to the nearest branch of Specsavers.

Talking of spitz tails I had someone (embarrassed to say a judge) ask me how we measured our dogs tails and she thought them very short. Told her we did not care about the length it was the carriage and curl they was important as they worked in forest undergrowth. And I did not advice she try to unfurl the tail as they are not amused but if they see one with the tail relaxed it reaches the hock like most dogs tails.

>Reckon the only thing they notice is the ears.

Can't be the ears as My Leos are always alsatians... Giant, long haired with floppy ears.
Yes, I have been asked if they are excatly that, giant, longhaired, floppy eared alsatians...
Hmmm, so you spotted some of the obvious differences but still insist must be alsatian :)!

I come from Finland and never had I seen so many different looking GSDs you have here in UK.
We have long haired etc of course but over here I truly could not believe some of the GSDs really are GSDs!
The size of some is just huge for one and some heads I have seen are very weird looking to me too, never mind the colours :)
Many have been lovely dogs of course but never would have I said they were pure GSD.

Think Noora our GSDs suffer from being popular and have been bred by all who owned one just because they could.

I have been asked if they are excatly that, giant, longhaired, floppy eared alsatians...

I'd say no they are rabbits!

all dogs that colour are Alsatians... Surely you knew that? ;-)

A but when you have a Mali, EVERYONE has a dog just the same at home -Alsatian cross Collie!

I thought he was taking the mick but he most definatly meant it, he was so embarrassed as all the people that heard him burst out laughing. Lol

EVERYONE has a dog just the same at home -Alsatian cross Collie!

Marginally better than having a visit from the Dog Warden because you have a GSD/Wolf crosses (wish we had a rolleyes)

Back in the late 70s/early 80s there was just one breeder of Shibas in Sweden -the Japanese only agreed for her to have them when she approached them about importing, and she was not allowed to sell any for breeding. At that time they did not exist in the UK. This lady, who my friend had a dog from, often got accused of being cruel as she had foxes on leads!

Have heard of Finnish Spitz being mistaken for a fox and sadly not long ago one got shot by a farmer, but Shibas, one can only think her accusers had not ever met a fox unless the Swedish foxes are different to ours which I suppose they may well be.

Yep my pomxchi yes she is a crossbreed or mongrel lol:) also looks like a little fox I have often been asked why I have a  fox particuarly  when she was tiny and couldnt go on the floor so you couldnt see her tail which she carries curled over her back

My friend gets fed up when people stop her and say their friend/neighbour/granny has one of those (pointing at her dog) but "a lot bigger". Well, her dog is 5" taller than the standard and at least 10kg heavier than average, so it's unlikely that these mythical dogs exist. She now tells them that he's only 3 months old & still has some growing to do.

I believe that the name was changed to Alsations just after, or during] WWII as anything with German in the name was found offensive to many people, understandably.  From the little research I have done, a while ago, stories say that many returning British soldiers befriended/were befriended by, GSD's and brought them home with them but felt that the name was offensive so named them from the area that they were believed to have come from - Alsatia.

As for type - I had a neighbour with a gorgeous long-coated black and tan GSD from purportedly, German lines - as I said he was gorgeous and well- trained and gentle - but don't know how typical.  If I ever wanted one I would look into this further though.

> I believe that the name was changed to Alsations just after, or during] WWII

After World War 1... 1914-18.

They became popular in the early part of the 20th Century and were originally called Alsatian Wolf Dogs. There is footage in the Pathe News archive of "Alsatian Wolf Dogs" doing agility from around 1920 onwards.

Here is footage of Alsatian Wolf Dogs from 1924.... well before WW2....
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=20557

Thanks for the correction. I was only 2 or 3 decades out!
Thanks for the link - will watch at leisure.

> Thanks for the link - will watch at leisure.

If you've not seen that site before then spend some time on it... there's some treasure there!!! early Crufts, and even footage from Dublin... plus a lot of other gems... try looking for Basenji and you will see the first that came into the UK.

>.... but felt that the name was offensive so named them from the area that they were believed to have come from - Alsatia.

Alsatia is a very small neutral province between France and Germany.

The dog was never really believed to have come from there but it made a more marketable name for people who had lost a lot of family to the Germans after the first world war. Anti-German feeling was strong... for obvious reasons.

Have you ever read the books by Buster Lloyd Jones, the founder of Denes, who was a vet in those days? He describes how in WW2, owners of dogs thought to be "German" i.e. Dachshunds, Schnauzers, Dobermanns, etc were targetted by people who thought them unpatriotic and those German-derived breeds were PTS in droves. It was a horrible time for everyone, my mother and father survived it or or wouldn't be here (they were born 1930 and 1933).

I've seen old cat pedigrees from that time which said "killed by enemy action" - mainly people had no choice but to have their beloved show cats & dogs PTS as nobody in those times had the resources to feed them, never mind breed or show. A lot of breeds in the UK (cats and dogs) were on the verge of extinction after WW2 in some cases only a handful of members of a breed was left and same across the Occupied parts of Europe.

I think I have read at least one book/extract by Buster.. quite some time ago though.
  > x">Alsatia is a very small neutral province between France and Germany."  I think neutral is the important point here

It was a terrible time for humans and animals. 
So glad your parents survived; hope they didn't suffer in the extreme

>>.... but felt that the name was offensive so named them from the area that they were believed to have come from - Alsatia.
>Alsatia is a very small neutral province between France and Germany.

Alsace, not Alsatia. 'Alsatia' doesn't exist (other than as a colloquial name for an area around Whitefriars in London). ;-)

Is it just me or do others like the name Alsation?

I must admit a certain fondness for the name but it's probably because they were called Alsations when I first got to know the breed as a child.  Possibly also influenced by a lovely pair of dogs belonging to a neighbour - one of whom 'rescued' me with doggy kisses when I fell off my bike outside their house! - although being called Elsa the Alsation got my tongue in knots...

I must admit the name Alsatian sounds friendlier (to me) than the mouthful of 'German Shepherd Dog', even though Alsatians were the 'Devil-dog' of my childhood (the role then went to Dobermanns, then Rottweilers, now pitbulls).

To me they've always been Schäfer. In Sweden we don't often translate breed names (but it does happen); the country of origin's name is used hence we have Schäfer and Golden Retriever and similar. It's funny how the UK translate some but not others -some have been turned into half translated versions (Swedish Vallhund, now there's a laugh as an example! Vallhund means Herding Dog so why not say Swedish Shepherd or Herding Dog? The Swedish name is too difficult for English speaking people, granted -Västgötaspets.) Also breeds like Löwchen and Hamiltonstövare have kept their names (minus the Ö) but the pronunciation has turned into an anglofied version. (Much the same as we in Sweden do not pronounce Golden as Golden but more in a Swedish way.)

Of course some breeds have several different names according to the country. Take my own as an example. English speaking countries, along with many others, use Malinois, which is French. In Belgium (so the home country) the breed is called Mechelaar. Some countries translate that as Mechelse Herder. Here a Great Dane is a Great Dane, in Sweden it is a Grand Danois (so in French), in Germany it's a Deutsche Dogge so it even changes nationality, sometimes being referred to as Danish, sometimes German.

> Alsa, not Alsatia.

Doh! Of course it is, sorry - senior moment there.

They have always been GSDs to me and I would find it hard to think of them as anything else, even have a club car badge that proclaims them to be GSDs.

> A lady on another site was recently told by an anxious mother pulling child away, her dog was a long-haired Dobermann... and Dobermanns are dangerous.
>
> (She has a Gordon Setter....LOL).

:-D :-D

I get the odd comment 'are your dogs Alsations?' I reply 'Yes, they are German shepherds'!

The comment about the re-growing testicles was true and he was serious!! LOL.

When my sable male was a pup I was asked 'where did you buy that wolf from' - I just laughed!!