My girl is currently in the middle of an open season. She had her second litter in August last year & due to her regular phantom pregnancies it has been advised that I get her spayed.

When I spoke to my vet about timings, she said because of the likelihood of her having another phantom, she would recommend that we spay her 7 weeks from the start of her season. She said that if there were any signs of a phantom, i.e. lactating, then they would have to wait.

I was always under the impression that the best time to spay a bitch was mid seasons, so as my girl normally has 8 months between seasons, then 4 months after the season. She's quite hormonal, and her phantoms have got worse each time, the last time she had a scan which revealed a lot of fluid build up in the uterus, she was really quite under the weather generally, and had a lot of milk! She did have a very clean whelping and good healthy litter last time but we're not planning any more puppies from her, so the spay seems to be in her best interest.

I'd very much like to ask what your opinions and experience are please. I want to make sure if she's going to be spayed it is done at the very best time for HER, I'm a bit nervous for her having such a big op, but each season she's going to risk her health, and her hormones are all over the place!

Thanks
Tanya

Same thoughts as you on that. My bitch season is six monthly and vet advised half way between seasons.

I recently took a bitch in midway between seasons for a spay.  She started early on the day she went in, and they refused to spay.

Last year I wanted a bitch spayed, but 12 weeks after her season she was in a huge phantom, and had milk for many weeks.  Will try again this time round.  But 12 weeks after first day of season for me.

What do you mean by in the middle of an "open" season?

I generally aim for midway but it varies with the bitch.

When River was done I planned for 3.5 months as she was always 7 months apart - then her last two were 5 months apart, so I waited till 3 months after, checked her boobs and everything was back to normal so she was done.

Paige is booked in for tuesday but her boobs are still quite big - so she might be put off a little bit.

Hi,
I don't want to hijack the op topic but my bitch had a c. section mid September and would be due her next season mid to the end of March. I won't be mating her again so when would be best to have her spayed or do i let her have a season first? The reason i ask is that i am keeping one of the boy pups. Who is now nearly 5 months old. When do boys become sexually mature or does it vary with different breeds and at what age should he have the 'op'?

Your boy is already likely to be old enough to 'do the deed' and sire a litter. Personally I'd have your bitch spayed now.

Thank you for replying - would her body have fully recovered from the pregnancy and the c. section to be able to cope with a spay?

If she whelped mid Sep, then she should be 4 months to her next season (6 months from season in which she was mated.)

I normally have mine spayed 12 weeks after whelping, and would have had her done mid December.  I think it depends on your bitches cycle, but, for me, I would be keeping the boy away from mum and having her done after another season.

JMHO

What do you mean by in the middle of an "open" season?

She is day 10 of her first season since her litter. "Open" meaning not being mated. Hope this clarifies.
Tanya

Would just clarify that the vet suggested 7 weeks from the start of the current season to try and prevent another phantom happening. What I'm wondering is will her body be sufficiently over the season to do it then? From what she was saying, spaying at 7 weeks would stop the phantom before it started. I think I understand!!

Do you agree?

> "Open" meaning not being mated. Hope this clarifies

Ok thanks, understand now.  I have to say that 7 weeks seems really, really soon.  If she is genuinely over her season at this time, then I guess it is the right time for your girl.  I have mine done at 12 weeks - but different cycle to yours.  At 7 weeks, is your vet inferring that a phantom can't possibly have started at this stage?

It is a really difficult decision to make, and I would be asking my vet loads of questions, and want his reasoning (he must despair of me at times.)  I always want to have in depth discussions before making my decisions!!!

Let us know which way you go. 

Hi Jean

Your concerns mirror mine exactly! Yes the vet did imply that she couldn't possibly be starting a phantom at 7 weeks thus the reason for doing it then. She did say however that if she was lactating then they would wait until the phantom was over.

Problem for me is that she had to have Galastop last time. It was at about 12 weeks post season & she wasn't a happy bunny! I actually thought she might be brewing a closed Pyo but thankfully the vet confirmed following scan/blood tests that it was a severe phantom. I found using the Galastop quite scary as she just lay around for 3 - 4 days then came back to normal after that. When I looked into it further I found that it can lower their blood pressure to dangerous level!

Is there anything I can do to help prevent such a severe phantom this time? Tbh I'd rather wait for a few more weeks (12 - 16 post season) before getting her spayed as she's quite a hormonal girl and she's much more "level" mid seasons. Also, she hasn't fully grown her coat back from her post puppy moult. Would the spay affect this also?

I think I'd rather wait and deal with a phantom than do too early and risk her health. I'm having her spayed because of the high risk of her developing a pyo and as she's already had 2 litters I don't plan to breed her again. Fingers crossed she'll be less "hormonal" too...

> Also, she hasn't fully grown her coat back from her post puppy moult. Would the spay affect this also?
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This is why I spay my girls about 11 - 12 weeks after their last litter as spayign them will make them drop their coat again all over, having already lost 9 months of showign time I don't want to have to wait another 3 or 4 months on top before they are showable again

> I think I'd rather wait and deal with a phantom than do too early and risk her health

You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't!  :-(

The girl that I wanted spayed last year has finished as far as litters are concerned, and, like you I worry about pyo.  She is the most obsessively maternal bitch that I have ever owned.  I almost have to have her incarcerated during a season so that she can't get to a male.  (Think human equivalent to a nymphomaniac!)

She has even tried to move bitches away from their pups so that she can have them for herself.  I was happily counting my weeks down last year for her op and she had the worst ever phantom that I have seen in a bitch.  She was well past her season when I caught her making a beeline for a couple of 12 week old pups (not hers.)  I couldn't believe what I was seeing, as they were suckling from her - and she had loads of milk. So I couldn't go ahead and have her spayed - I am now waiting for her next season.  :-(

I took another in for spaying at the beginning of the year, and she came in season early so they refused to operate!  As I said bloody difficult to get it right sometimes!