Prompted from a post on another forum, I thought I'd ask here about the BMS.  I see the BMS as what it states, breed mean score, it's an average.  But I'm also aware that when it comes to breeding, those averages are by no means guaranteed.  So when I look at hip scores, taking into account the rest of the dog, if they are above the BMS but the dog/bitch is a good example of the breed, I don't think anyone could be said to be wrong to use them in a breeding programme.  Yet so many times I see people post about the need to use dogs that are below the BMS, when, I believe, statistically, these dogs have no more chance than those slightly above the BMS of producing low scoring progeny. 

It seems to be risque, or taboo, to mention using dogs in a breeding programme where they have above BMS hip scores. I've seen people breed using dogs that have a higher than BMS score, with several high scoring predecessors, and no real reason for breeding, which I personally couldn't condone.  But there are also outstanding representatives of my breed, where they have a higher score than the BMS, and yet the tumbleweed seems to drift across any conversation regarding them. 

I personally feel that if you have x rays taken they should then HAVE to be submitted for scoring. I know breeders who don't submit as it will look bad but surely if we are to have a true BMS then all x rays should be submitted.

For this reason I feel that dogs slightly over and which have something to offer the breed should not be disguarded. I have used a dog with a hip score of 21 before and his children were all under 10. He came from a long line of low scores and had had an accident as a youngster.

Good point, I forgot about all those who have plates taken young, and then don't bother submitting.  It's difficult, but I think in principle you're right, people should submit all scores to the BVA to help keep an accurate record.

Just for the record, both of my two scored well below the BMS, Indie 3:3, although she has been spayed, and Tau 0:0, their dam scored 10:9 from memory, but then she also was subject to a lot of environmental wear and tear that her owners hadn't realised may contribute to a high score.  Whether or not I ever breed from Tau, who is the only one left entire is another matter. 

I look on the BMS as a guide, a tool to be used, but like other tools there are always going to be good and bad. I have used a dog with slightly higher than the average hip score and have not regretted it. I have his granddaughter here with a total score of 7. The x-rays were taken at aged 3 1/2 years and she used to run up and down the stairs regularly. I also have her son who has a score of 5, again taken at 3 1/2 years old. There are dogs out there (not necessarily in my breed) that have excellent scores but are nothing like the breed standard. I would rather use a dog that resembles the breed but whose score is a bit higher than normal than use one that has excellent hips but is a poor specimen of the breed.

I think as long as the dogs score is in a functionally normal range (as opposed to radiographic perfection) then I don't mind a few points above the mean, but then your also taking into account the pattern of ancestral and possibly sibling scores, and should do so for the mate.

Using our score compared to  grading system gives perspective.

The US system does not rate a dog as in the Dysplastic range until they are at the equivalent to our score of 26.  19 - 25 being borderline and anything below that as Normal graded as Excellent, Good or Fair. 

They grade the Dysplastic scores into Mild, Moderate and Severe.  http://www.offa.org/hd_grades.html

Other Hip Dysplasia Registries--An Approximation

OFA              FCI (European)       BVA (UK/Australia)        SV (Germany)
Excellent               A-1                      0-4 (no > 3/hip)               Normal
Good                     A-2                     5-10 (no > 6/hip)              Normal
Fair                        B-1                             11-18                        Normal
Borderline             B-2                             19-25                    Fast Normal
Mild                         C                               26-35                Noch Zugelassen
Moderate                 D                               36-50                        Mittlere
Severe                     E                              51-106                       Schwere

Very good points raised.

I believe that if all xrays were submitted for scoring the BMS would be pushed up in a lot of breeds. I have known breeders become obsessed with just hips and their dogs become untypical for their breed. It's also difficult to get the complete picture of what's being passed on hip-wise when most siblings are not scored or bred from as they are neutered pets.

The vets who expect radiographic perfection certainly dont take into account the rest of the dog - recently my dog was scored and it was exactly the BMS figure. When we looked at the plates it was suggested to me that I didn't breed because of the score, and that my dog MAY get arthritis in old age. With that criteria narrowing the gene pool down even further a breed could become endangered or have other health problems compounded.  In a perfect world every dog would have 0:0 hips & elbows (although we know that bad hipped dogs can move soundly and vice-versa), the highest hipped dog I ever had scored was sound and healthy all her life and died at 14+.