Hi i posted previously regarding my gsd and his skin problem. I have been recommended trying a raw diet which the dog loves but he keeps messing in the house. I dont know if this is due to him having problems on his behind as he wont let me lift his tail at all or that the diet may be doing this to him. His bed is in the kitchen and he scratches the door in the morning when he wants his breakfast but isnt telling me when he wants to go out. Ive reduced the dry food he was on completely now but he is scavaging for food constantly! im giving him 750-800g a day possibly more of a mixture of chicken, bones and offal but hes driving me mad pinching anything whether its in a packet or in the bin. In the last few days he has eaten a bowl of fruit, a carrot cake and a packet of dry couscous along with anything else he can get his paws on.
My questions are 1, would the diet be causing the problem with him messing? Hes not got loose motions, but hard bits. And 2, what do you suggest re amount of food? Give more or not?
His skin looks no better since being on the diet but have only just stopped the biscuits, have had to put elizabethan collar back on him because hes chewing his legs raw. About how long should i give the diet to start working? As i said in my previous post ive literally tried everything else and this is my last chance before i have to make a decision on his future so any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading my post.                                                                   

I'd say the raw diet is very unlikely to have caused the problem with messing indoors - when I changed mine over they seemed to get less 'urgent' needs so accidents would be avoidable.  If he's scrounging and stealing then this won't help, fruit in particular can hurry things along.  If for whatever reason he isn't getting the message that he needs to go out then you need to take control and make sure he has regular outings after each meal and about an hour later.  You and he should soon get a pattern established if he is fed at regular times.

With regards to the quantity it doesn't sound like enough.  How old and active is he?  Mine are raw fed and my 8 yr old 14kg terrier type mongrel is on app 3% = 440g per day.  My 3 yr old 28kg very active Wirehaired Vizsla is on 4% = 1100g per day. 

You can see a raw food calculator here.  For your 33kg dog you could easily feed 1lb (453g) of meat twice a day (minimum) and adjust from there.  If the scrounging remains a huge problem than add an extra bony meal at lunchtime (chicken portions, turkey necks and wings are all good to take the edge off).  Raw food doesn't seem to give the immediate full feeling that kibble does so he is probably just responding to the shift in diet.  Fill a Kong with mince and freeze if you want his food to last a bit longer.  HTH :)

You could bulk his food up with pulped fruit and veg.  I whizz it up in the food processor and then freeze in portions.  One of my dogs is a scavenger and piles on weight easily so we add fruit and veg to his meals to increse volume without increasing calorie intake significantly.

Also, there is a chance that he's sensitive to a particular protein source so it could be that chicken (or beef or pork or whatever) is causing his skin condition.  I'd be inclined to exclude chicken for a while (as that's what he's having most of) and switch to lamb (generally well tolerated by most dogs) and see if there's any improvement.

And make sure he can't get at any other food at all.  Put everything away in cupboards or well out of his reach.  Get a bin that he can't get into or put it in a cupboard too, if you can.  He's scavenged a whole host of things there, any of which could be contributing to the skin problem if he's sensitive to any of the ingredients.

With regard to messing in the house, try changing his feeding schedule.  Or get up a bit earlier and let him out if he's not asking to get out.  I'd be inclined to go back to basics with the toilet training for a while and accompany him outside so you can praise and reward when he's goes in the garden.  Also, make sure you've thoroughly cleaned up after him in the house with a solution of diluted biological washing powder/liquid to remove any trace scent which could be encouraging him to keep going in the house.

I think you are wise to have stopped the dry food completely. Dry food/complete/kibble/biscuit (whatever you want to call it) has a longer transit time through the digestive system and can often confuse things....leading to some people blaming the RAW food...when actually its the kibble that is causing the problem (Dry/cooked food will often ferment in the gut and causes a slime in the intestines that allows worms to thrive...and is one of the reasons why a dog on a RAW Meaty Bones diet is much more resilient to both fleas and worms...as they don't get the slime build up)

A change in diet needs time to take effect (like losing weight you don't expect to begin a diet and have lost all you want to lose by the end of the week...rather you know that it will be a gradual process....and if you are eating healthily..other effects like clearer skin..a more stable energy etc will come with time)

It does sound like he needs a bit more. (my friend's 6 year old GSD who was switched to an RMB diet because of constant diarreah on kibble has 1.2 kg of RMBs per day and is fasted on a Saturday. Although there is usually an immediate improvement in firmness and smaller quantity of poo...the benefits to skin and coat may take 4 to 6 weeks to see an improvement....and in the case of my friend's GSD he went through a period of "out with the old and in with the new" where he appeared to lose coat in patches....before his new coat came in thick glossy and shining.

When you have a dog which is already suffering hair loss due to a skin condition then you can imagine that each hair follicle needs time to heal first....and then each new hair needs time to grow back.

Rather than split his meals down through the day for a start....you could try giving him say a whole RAW chicken for breakfast....and let him gnaw and chomp away at it until he's completely full and satisfied.

You mentioned in a previous post that he has had a lot of spot on flea treatments and it is just possible that this is contributing to his distress. You could try bathing his skin with a lemon solution (3 sliced lemons steeped overnight in boiled water....then drained...and use the remaining water to bathe or spray his skin) and then thoroughly dusting him down with a totally natural product called food grade Diatomateous Earth (I get mine from wiggly wigglers) to remove residues (it will also act as a 100% natural flea/parasite control) Also pay attention to detergents that you use to clean the floor in the kitchen and bedding....as dogs are always up close and personal with any bleaches/optical brighteners/SLSs to name but a few that we regularly tend use in their environment.....without thinking about until there is a problem.  

Thanks for the calculator ill have a look now. I did think that it could be getting used to the not having the kibble that has fillers in. But i will persist and ill give him some more veg. Is there any veg he shouldnt have?
He has stolen food before but he normally gets told off and doesnt do it very often, normally if someone left food in easy places for him to get to. But he's straining himself to get to hard to reach places and eating anything! Coucous dry in the packet still cannot be that tempting to a normal dog surely??
His skin condition has been with him for now for about 11 months and hes only 16 months so we ve tried alot of things already in terms of changing food, changing vets, creams, shampoos and medication. The last drug i brought cost £130 for 2 weeks supply and nothing changed. He got better for a short time when i changed vet but he just got bad again. And the food the vet gave me was cost me £56 for 2 weeks, the cheapest i found on internet, the vet charged £73 for a bag!!!

The toilet problem i dont know whether it is because he is feeling poorly again and hes been going at his hind quarters more and more recently and wont even let me lift his tail without putting up a fight. I get up in the night with my baby and normally he jumps at the door if he wants to go out but he doesnt then couple of hours later hes messed. I will try taking him out myself again though and see how he does with praise.

Very stressed by all this, the house smells and the kitchen is obviously constantly a mess because his skin comes off and thats where his bed is. I cant leave him out long because he has hardly any coat and gets cold very quickly but cant put a coat on him because the sores on his skin weep disgusting smelling greasy the turns in to greasy scales.

Thanks for your comments.

Freedom of spirit thank you. Ive been unsure of how long to give the diet especially as i go back to work after maternity leave in 7 weeks and am also worried if ill be able to cope with such a poorly dog with 2 children and working part time. I will try the lemons i did read this on my last post. Thank you for your help and information, need all i can get a the minute.

i got a dog a couple of years ago that had a bad skin problem she would chew her self raw, not nice, we feed raw so naturally this is what we started feeding her, along with a scoop of herbal dog stop itch a day, and after a few months her skin condition cleared completely and she has been fine ever since, i dont know if the herbal stuff helped or if it was just the raw diet

I really feel for you. My last GSD sounded like your boy, at the age of 9 months we considered euthanising her, but we did eventually find a way to manage her condition.

As you are probably aware allergies can relate to diet, atopy (something in the environment) or contact. In my girl's case she was affected by all three, yet with careful management we managed to keep her virtually itch free.

A few questions now. Firsty is he insured. If so I would ask to be referred to a Dermatologist. I don't know where you are, but Sue Paterson (rutlandreferals.com) was who we saw and is a leader in the field of Dermatology. Your vet will be able to direct you to a specialist in your area. Dermatologist can carry out patch testing, which would involve him being shaved and his skin being exposed to apprx 50 common allergens. Once the allergen/s have been identified, it is possible to start immunotherapy treatment to try and desensitise him to the allergens.

Feeding - Have you had any tests carried out to see if he is allergic to certain proteins/grains, etc? Allergy screening for food intolerences can be done by means of a simple blood test. To be honest, as much as I believe in raw feeding, with a dog like your boy, I think it is really important to find out if he is intolerant to certain things. Once you have the result, assuming he has positive results, your vet will be able to start him on a prescription diet that excludes all the things he can't have, and you can start a food trial to see if things improve. At this stage he MUST not be given any extras/titbits other than the prescription food. I know you have fed a food from the vets, but did they explain about totally excluding all other foods from his diet, during the trial period?

Finding out what the allergens are can be difficult, but once you know you can do a lot to minimise your boy's exposure but you need the help of a good vet and dermatologist. From the way you describe your boy I think you need the help of a good veterinary professional to help and guide you through the process and with their help I am sure you will be able to manage his symptoms successfully.

My girl was described as the most allergic dog she had ever come across, yet with careful dietary management, shampooing to control secondary infections and the occasional used of the dreaded steroids during major flare ups (maybe 2 or 3 times a years for a couple of days), my girl led a very happy life.  

I know it's a bit of a long rambling post, but if you would like a chat, pm me you number and I will give you a ring.

fifasmum pleased you are giving raw a try some good ideas for you to follow here.I would add it will take a few weeks to see much change

Thank you for your help and information, need all i can get a the minute.

Another inexpensive product you could try that may help is....Denes Homeopathic Sulphur. A friend's (rescue) Old English Bulldog who had similar symptoms and was scraping his skin off along the wall was relieved completely by changing to a RAW diet and giving him Homeopathic Sulphur twice a day. Like you she had been through the mill with conventional testing and treatments which had shown nothing....and was also considering euthanasia. (admittedly it was a long slow process and 6 months of total dedication on her part before she felt able to take him for a walk without being accused of neglect)

I still wouldn't rule out seeking referral to a Homeopathic Vet but in the meantime its just another little change that you could easily make....that may possibly just help him

http://www.denes.co.uk/health/product/79/sulphur