I have a little pup 7 weeks almost 8. She has an umbilica hernia. Im CERTIAN its not hereditary and Im pretty sure that shes healthy in all other ways.

I believe I may have caused it! Mum had 2 pups one after another litterally and wasnt tending to this one after leaving her in the bag for what seamed like forever I decided to take over, I clamped it off made sure she was breathing and gave her back to mum once the cord had stopped bleeding, I litterally left the room long enought to run to the toilet and back, and the cord was GONE off the pup only a hole and lot of blood. I think my also cut the cord lol, but she made it fine except for the hernia! I would like some peoples advice I took them to the vets friday for their 1st injection friday, and the vet wanted to operate. I refused as I think it may just be delayed closing, as its not massive.

What would you do? operate or not?

Also I wondered whether or not I should let her go to her new home? I was considering keeping her because of this but that means letting down a wonderful family home. I had considered either letting them have her for 1/2 price or selling her full price but fitting any vet bills that are related to the hernia, whch ever they were happiest with.

Hernia's like this are not uncommon, some can be hereditary, some caused by the bitch or breeder, but in most cases a vet doesn't offer an operation unless severe they will usually offer to close it at the time of neutering and many times it has closed or is of no real worry even then, some people leave them.

I wouldn't let it affect the pups new home, but am worried why a vet wishes to operate now, is it worth a second opinion and why does the vet see it as urgent to operate at 8 weeks of age?

There is always the risk of it becoming a strangulated hernia if it were a large gap I could understand the vets worries, what reason did the vet give? I'm puzzled.

The new owners would have to be aware and be shown how to pop in the hernia to help it heal (if it does) and to keep an eye on it, maybe a little discount to cover the op when neutering if needed as they are not covered by insurance for this from birth.

Even if you do have the op now (really don't understand it) then have it done and then let the new owners have the pup.

Would she be a pet only?

As long as it is not going to a show home I would do as the vet suggests and then let it go to it's new home with a endorsement.

I had a litter back in 2009, Mum's first time, where the first pup out she pulled not only the cord right off but brought out the entire intestines.  We rushed her to the vets who pushed everything back in and stitched her up.  We really didn't expect her to survive but she did and around 5 weeks of age she developed a hernia the size of a golf ball.  I contacted her new owners to advise them about the situation and they still wanted to have her.  I deducted money to pay for the operation and at 10 weeks of age she was operated on.  She is 18 months old now and have never had any problems resulting from it.

I have also known pups to develop these small hernias where it is about the size of a twenty pence coin around 9 weeks of age and never known one to be operated on. One of the vet nurses told me she had workd there for 6 years and had never seen one be repaired.

I once had a Yorkie girl take a cord so short that there was a hole, which bled like hell.  I used styptic to stem the bleeding.

The damage wasn't seen until the pup was 7-8 weeks old.  The pup had already been chosen, and I told the potential new owners what had happened, giving them the chance to back out.

I discussed the situation at length with my vet, who didn't push me one way or the other.  Pup was going to a lovely active family home, I had met them all, and they were ideal owners.  However, I wasn't happy to chance on them being experienced enough to recognise a problem, so I wasn't happy to wait and see if it closed up by itself.

I had the pup operated on at 8 weeks, and they had to wait until after he had his vet check before they could take him home with them.  They were happy enough to let me pay for surgery, and I was happy in my own mind that he wasn't going to be rushed in for emergency surgery at a later date.

When I get photos of him at Christmas, it's great!  He is obviously a much loved family member.

In our breed umbilical hernias are very common, I don't know of any litters recently where there have been no pups affected. It can just happen, it doesn't always mean the bitch has been over-enthusiastic when cutting the chord out, it could be that they dangled from it for too long, or it may just happen.  We have 3 with hernias at the mo 2 pin pricks that'l prob close and 1 that won't.  Providing they're only small they won't cause any issues.  We did have a dog with a huge one at 8 weeks old when we got her the hernia was alwready bigger than a 2p piece and poppy out hugely - her's had to be operated on but usually they are fine left.  In our breed puppies are regularly sold with hernias you could reduce the cost if you think it may need to be operated on later but. 

I know this may be very different to other peoples experiences with hernias but I think its jut so common in our breed that it is almost expected.  Although I jsut wanted to make it clear we wouldn't breed off anything with a hernia.

> In our breed umbilical hernias are very common, I don't know of any litters recently where there have been no pups affected. It can just happen, it doesn't always mean the bitch has been over-enthusiastic when cutting the chord out

I started breeding in the 1970's so have a bit of experience.  I have bred 3 different varieties of toys.  Last year was the first time EVER in my breeding years, that I had ever seen a hernia. Definitely due to mum's enthusiasm, and not genetic.  I must have breeds where it is not the norm.

I genuinely have never seen one before. 

If I had 3 in one litter I would have a seizure, and could never accept it as normal.

They're very common in my breed too, my bitch has a fairly large one but it has never caused any problems. Her daughter has a tiny one which again I will keep an eye on as she grows up.

I'm just trying to enhance my knowledge here but what breeds are hernias common in as I have only seen 2 many many years ago whilst I was nursing.

A pup from my litter had a hernia, definitely due to over zealous mum and a bum first presentation :-) Discussed with my vet what course of action would be required, he said absolutely no operation under 4-5 months of age - anaesthetics are just not good with young bodies :-( Obviously an emergency op is very different before anyone jumps in. Preferrably to sort out if pup is neutered/spayed ... if not then once it's older, around a year. I most definitely would not operate at this very young age, unless it is a life threatening condition. Let vet play maverick with someone else.

The person lined up for my pup was informed of the hernia and what would be required and when, and she was quite happy. Mention of the hernia and discussion wth owner was noted in my sales contract, together with the recommended course of action regarding surgery, should it be required. I did not reduce the price of my pup. A bitch a hernia is simple to do if she's spayed, it probably wont add anything to the cost of the surgery 'cause it's in line with the cut.

Hope this helps.

Unfortunately the breed I am in it is very common, there are very few dogs to choose from and only around 80 puppies a year registered with KC.  In the wider breed family - there are 3 other strains that are all much more common, they also have issues with them as well.  Unfortuanately they are just genetically weak when it comes to hernias.  I know that this is an issue and some people may say ask why anyone would breed if that is the case, but you won't find a litter without at least one puppy with a hernia so it is very hard to remove the problem without causing extinction!  Hernia's aren't major and don't affect a dogs quality of life, we were disapointed to have 3 in the litter but 2 should close in the next few months and one would never need to be closed in the vets opinion. 

The stud dog owner we used has been breeding a different type of gundog for well over 40 years and had never seen one until she started with this breed and was devastated when she discovered the hernias, I think only now she's on her 3rd generation is she starting to accept that they can't always be prevented. 

Its not ideal but fortunately it is just about the only health problem they suffer from.

Breeds that are predisposed to have a high risk of umbilica hernia are: Basenji, Airedales, pekingese & all the Setter family 

I'm sure there are others but these are the ones I know of - obviously some of these have quite high numbers so may have been able to drive down the amount of dogs with hernias through breeding. 

We've only had 1 with an umbilical hernia, it looked like 1/2 a marble, had her checked over 4 times before leaving each time with a different vet and they all said it wouldn't cause any problems.  New owner was told about it, they were happy to take her, their own vet checked her and confirmed the same as my vets`..........12 weeks later had a call from owner to say the hernia was strangulated, she certainly wasn't blaming me, she was more concerned about her little girl, thankfully the part of the intestine that had pushed through was bruised but no blood supply had been cut off.

She had the op and everything turned out fine, we've not had more with hernias since.

And Cavaliers. :-)

Yes I've never had a Cavalier without a hernia -I've had 5. Never been a problem. My current one's hernia is so small I hardly even notice it. On the other hand if I saw it in a Malinois or Papillon I'd be very unhappy!

Henry didn't have one! Ellie's is pretty big, the blasted new vet this afternoon was going on and on and on and on, all I wanted was some clavaseptin!! Hetty's is tiny, but then so is she at the moment!

> Unfortunately the breed I am in it is very common, there are very few dogs to choose from and only around 80 puppies a year registered with KC. 

Many thanks for your explanation Susiebell.  It shows just what huge differences there are in the breeds, and the groups.  This is something that I love on CD.  How we can pass on knowledge!

Are pups that are born backside first more likely to have a hernia then or is it just down to mum being over enthusiastic?

> Are pups that are born backside first more likely to have a hernia then

No, I don't believe so.  I have personally had breech births, but have never had one with a hernia.

ive had a breach in this litter and she dont have a hernia ,i do think alot in large breeds its down to mum.
xxx

OK..I just wondered is all:)

My first Cavalier had a hernia, didnt cause her any problems and it was repaired when she was spayed.  The vet told us what to look out for (ie going hard or hot, increasing in size or our dog showing stomach pain etc).  Ive had three Cavvies and she was the only one that had a hernia.

hi , i have just been reading this post as i often just read posts on here for some knowledge :) , and i have a question , my friends friend has just bought a bitch pug she must be about 15weeks old now and she was saying that her pug has a hernia and the vet has said they would fix the hernia but only if the bitch was going to be spayed. my friends friend refused this and said no , i asked her why if the pup needs it then she shud get it done, after me asking her this i had to walk away as i was disgusted in her reply !!!!.
My question is , is this pug safe to have a litter if this hernia issue isint attended to ?

Thanks Natalie x

it isnt safe for any bitch to have a litter with an hernai imo

xxxx

thanks , i thought that might be the case ,but as i did not know for sure i didnt want to say anything !  i will have to tell my friend to get intouch with her and tell her not to breed from her. Thanks x

I'd change vets as it a two minute op and very simple.  The vet is after money.  its a tiny cut and two stitches which heals in about a week.  The pup is still very young and the hernia can mend itself, if its out just gently stroke it and they can pop themselves back in and the defect hela on its own.  Your friend needs to decide whether to wait a few months or just get it done.

If she planning on having a litter it might be best to get it done as they can pop out more, I have known dog have trouble free hwelps with them but it can be an issue,  With it being a small breed it can strectch it and cause terrible problems.  but thats a few years away so plenty oif time.  TYou need at least 3 months netween op and pregnancy if its left.

I thought umbilical hernias could be inherited and as such a bitch with one shouldn't be bred from full stop? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

i dont think all hernias are inherited but depends on breed and mum chewing the cord to short at birth
xxxx

Are you sure she understood the vet correctly?  It is very usual for a vet to say they will do the 2 ops at once, when the pup is a little older, as a hernia presents no immediate problems to a puppy, and 1 General Anaesthetic  is better than 2 for the pup.  IF that is not the case, then yes, I think she should change vets.  Breeding from a pug with a hernia coudl be problematic, but again depends on the hernia and the cause.  IT is very hard determining the reason but fair to say if  a breeder is very familiar with both sides of the family for several generations and this is the only hernia whiahc has appeared then it is probably caused by rough washing etc.  However, if they have just bought the pup without the depth of knowledge, chances are it might be hereditary, so could be passed on to her pups.  If it is any bigger than a tiny garden pea size one, then breeding could be very problematic for the bitch.  They need to seek advice from a knowledgable pug breeder and get them to give an opinion  - perhaps the pups breeder or the owner of hte stud dog?  It is usually easier to get people to accept advice which is not whaht they want to hear if you can give them a range of possible options rather than a straight "don't do it" straight away.

hi thanks , i dont think she has researched before she has bought the pug , as her reply to me only sprang one word in my head " scumbag" , and i do not know if the pug is kc reg or who she purchased the pug from. i know she had an akita before this pug as i have seen her with it i do not know what has happened to this dog or if she still has has it. I will try and see if i can see her at the school today and try make a converstaion with her and see if she opens up a bit to me and then maybe i can pass on some advice regards speaking to the breeder before she goes ahead with anything in the future. The pug is soo cute and i feel awful and sick in my stomach to think what kind of life she is going to have with this girl. If in the future she does continue is there anything i can do as a dog lover to protect this little dog from being bred like no-ones business ? Thanks Natalie x

It's great that you are so concerned.  There is not a lot anyone can do if someone is determined to breed only for the £££££s they see.  If you do manage to strike up a conversation with her you could maybe work it round to the fact that pugs are not easy to breed, they need 24 hour care for at least 3 weeks as the bitches are often not natural Mothers so don't feel inclined to feed the litter, an certainly don't do any of the "work" during whelping.  Also the very real possiblity of emergency C sections which can cost up to £1000 (or even more from some of hte tales I have heard about out of hours vet bill recently).  You may also manage to get in the fact that knowingly breeding a bitch with a defect (which the hernia is) could lead her liable to big claims from puppy buyers if their pups also suffer from the porblem and they are landed with vets bills?

If she only has 1 bitch she is not going to run foul of the Licensing requirements, and it sounds like she is unlikely to be bothered about the KC or a breed club code of conduct, so showing her that it may well cost her a lot more than she is likely to make could be the best way to go.

Hi Gwen ,

I did get to speak to her at the school before , i mentioned some the points about basically hand rearing the pups and the cost of the c section. She didnt seem to be bothered at all , her statement was "well i will get it all paid for as i not working , i just want to make my money back on her !!!!". I also mentioned about the possible effects of not informing puppy owners of defects and she just replied "oh right". I just hope that maybe just maybe i have gave her something to think about before the pup gets to the right age. But i doubt i have but at least i have tried :).
I am glad i have a boy dog now after all this haha , Thanks x

You must remember to casulally let her know, the PDSA do not do unpaid c-sections.  If you she went there in the evening, it would be through Vets now and expensive or they would tell her to register at a vets.

I'd say leave her to it but the bitch's life could be at risk if complications hit.  i'm turning the air blue here just thinking about it!!!

Glad to hear you got to put some of the points across, perhaps she will think a bit about it over a period of time. 

As Reikiangel pointed out, she is certainly under a misaprehension if she thinks the PDSA will cover the costs, and the last C section I heard of at our local PDSA for out of hours (when it is "Vets Now who offer the service) was close to £1200.  Perhaps you could express concern and get her to check it out with the local branch "so she does not get stuck with an enormous bill".  The also require paying up front, first thing they say on phone is that the cost of jsut visiting out of hours is around £100.